To the Jewish Faith: How long will you wait?

[Righteousone]

I was never taught that money motivated the small group of Jews to do what they did. It was more a threat to the status quo and a percieved religious issue. They were afraid of the new way, and what it would mean to them, but they were scared to do anything themselves less the folowers rebel. If they could get the Romans to do it, and the Christians rebelled, two birds would be killed with one stone, so to speak.

How could a small group get the Romans to do anything? Remember that Jerusalam was the edge of the empire and it was considered a horrible post. Pilot would have no trouble killing one man (or a hundred) to keep the peace and not cause any news of trouble to get back home. The idea that he would not crucify one man to shut a loud group up is almost laughable. He did much worse for lesser reasons. Remember, it was not Rome as a whole that did it, anymore than it was the Jews as a whole that had him crucified. All together, I doubt that there were more than 200 people involved.

I
John 2:13: Since the Passover of the Jews was near, Jesus went up to Jerusalem. He found in the Temple area those who sold oxen, sheep and doves, as well as the money changers seated there. He made a whip out of cords and drove them all out of the Temple area, with the sheep and oxen, and spilled the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. And to those who sold doves He said "Take these out of here, and stop making my Father’s house a marketplace.
Then the Jews wanted Jesus arrested, but they were afraid it would cause a scene so they conspired to do it later.

 

[ralphinal]

I
John 2:13: Since the Passover of the Jews was near, Jesus went up to Jerusalem. He found in the Temple area those who sold oxen, sheep and doves, as well as the money changers seated there. He made a whip out of cords and drove them all out of the Temple area, with the sheep and oxen, and spilled the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. And to those who sold doves He said "Take these out of here, and stop making my Father’s house a marketplace.
Then the Jews wanted Jesus arrested, but they were afraid it would cause a scene so they conspired to do it later.

Please note my point about the status quo. There were other times that they wanted him dead. This was one of many. Besides, according to historians, only one or two families made any money off of this. By saying that it was all about money, you begin to fall into the “greedy Jew” mentality.

 

[Valke2]

Of course the Jews would want him arrested. He engaged in disorderly conduct at the Temple. That does not say, btw, that they wanted him killed or that they wanted him killed because they were losing money. It could have just as easily been that they were outraged at his behavior and found it to be an affront to their worship.

 

[Righteousone]

Intimidated by Caesar is believable.

I’ve read the whole of the Christian scriptures. It’s a better read than the Qur’an but not as interesting as The Lord Of The Rings.

Well, I find no humor in that statement whatsoever.
when Jesus turned to Pilate and said “FOR THIS REASON THE ONE WHO HANDED ME OVER TO YOU HAS THE GREATER SIN”. (jOHN 19:11)
JOHN 19:4-6–“I FIND NO GUILT IN HIM”
JOHN 18:35 “YOUR OWN NATION AND THE CHIEF PRIESTS HANDED YOU OVER TO ME”.
JOHN 18:13 IT WAS CAIAPHAS WHO HAD COUNSELED THE JEWS THAT IT WAS BETTER FOR ONE MAN SHOULD DIE RATHER THAN THE PEOPLE.
JOHN 19:12 CONSEQUENTLY, PILATE TRIED TO RELEASE HIM, BUT THE JEWS CRIED OUT “IF YOU RELEASE HIM, YOU ARE NO FRIEND OF CEASAR.”
JOHN 19:38 “FOR FEAR OF THE JEWS”
JOHN 19:15 PILATE SAID TO THEM “SHALL I CRUCIFY YOUR KING?” AND THE JEWS ANSWERED “WE HAVE NO KING BUT CAESAR”.
JOHN 5:18 FOR THIS REASON THE JEWS TRIED ALL THE MORE TO KILL HIM, BECAUSE HE NOT ONLY BROKE THE SABBATH BUT HE ALSO CALLED GOD HIS OWN FATHER, MAKING HIMSELF EQUAL TO GOD.
JOHN 1:11 HE CAME TO WHAT WAS HIS OWN, BUT HIS OWN PEOPLE DID NOT ACCEPT HIM.
JOHN 7:1 BECAUSE THE JEWS WERE TRYING TO KILL HIM
JOHN 10:20 HE IS POSESSED AND OUT OF HIS MIND, WHY LISTEN TO HIM?
JOHN 10:31 THE JEWS PICKED UP ROCKS TO STONE HIM
JOHN 12:37 ALTHOUGH HE HAD PERFORMED SO MANY SIGNS, THEY DID NOT BELIEVE IN HIM

 

[Righteousone]

Please note my point about the status quo. There were other times that they wanted him dead. This was one of many. Besides, according to historians, only one or two families made any money off of this. By saying that it was all about money, you begin to fall into the “greedy Jew” mentality.

And?

 

[Kaninchen]

Well, I find no humor in that statement whatsoever.
when Jesus turned to Pilate and said “FOR THIS REASON THE ONE WHO HANDED ME OVER TO YOU HAS THE GREATER SIN”. (jOHN 19:11)
JOHN 19:4-6–“I FIND NO GUILT IN HIM”
JOHN 18:35 “YOUR OWN NATION AND THE CHIEF PRIESTS HANDED YOU OVER TO ME”.
JOHN 18:13 IT WAS CAIAPHAS WHO HAD COUNSELED THE JEWS THAT IT WAS BETTER FOR ONE MAN SHOULD DIE RATHER THAN THE PEOPLE.
JOHN 19:12 CONSEQUENTLY, PILATE TRIED TO RELEASE HIM, BUT THE JEWS CRIED OUT “IF YOU RELEASE HIM, YOU ARE NO FRIEND OF CEASAR.”
JOHN 19:38 “FOR FEAR OF THE JEWS”
JOHN 19:15 PILATE SAID TO THEM “SHALL I CRUCIFY YOUR KING?” AND THE JEWS ANSWERED “WE HAVE NO KING BUT CAESAR”.
JOHN 5:18 FOR THIS REASON THE JEWS TRIED ALL THE MORE TO KILL HIM, BECAUSE HE NOT ONLY BROKE THE SABBATH BUT HE ALSO CALLED GOD HIS OWN FATHER, MAKING HIMSELF EQUAL TO GOD.
JOHN 1:11 HE CAME TO WHAT WAS HIS OWN, BUT HIS OWN PEOPLE DID NOT ACCEPT HIM.
JOHN 7:1 BECAUSE THE JEWS WERE TRYING TO KILL HIM
JOHN 10:20 HE IS POSESSED AND OUT OF HIS MIND, WHY LISTEN TO HIM?
JOHN 10:31 THE JEWS PICKED UP ROCKS TO STONE HIM
JOHN 12:37 ALTHOUGH HE HAD PERFORMED SO MANY SIGNS, THEY DID NOT BELIEVE IN HIM

There’s no need to shout, it will make no difference whatsoever.

I didn’t mean it to be humorous (well slightly). Of course your scriptures are sacred to you but they’re just Christian writings to me and of no particular significance - no more than the scriptures of other religions are to you. You really might as well have typed out parts of ‘The Hobbit’ in capitals for all the effect it has on me.

 

[Righteousone]

There’s no need to shout, it will make no difference whatsoever.

I didn’t mean it to be humorous (well slightly). Of course your scriptures are sacred to you but they’re just Christian writings to me and of no particular significance - no more than the scriptures of other religions are to you. You really might as well have typed out parts of ‘The Hobbit’ in capitals for all the effect it has on me.

Then you are saying your Old Testament also means nothing to you? That is Scripture, those are the prophets who foretold Christ.
If you cannot and will not believe what is written, then what do you believe in as a Jew? I understand Jews are not very religious anyway, except for the Orthodox.

 

[ralphinal]

And?

And I do not want a theological discussion, one that if done correctly may have benefits for all involved, to seem to be anti-semetic drivel. There is merit in discussing the claims of Jesus as messiah to modern Jews. Once anyone throws in the old standards, conversation stops. The question will go unanswered.

Besides, i don’t want to get into the Eric Cartmann theory that all Jews carry a bag of Jew gold around their necks.

 

[Righteousone]

And I do not want a theological discussion, one that if done correctly may have benefits for all involved, to seem to be anti-semetic drivel. There is merit in discussing the claims of Jesus as messiah to modern Jews. Once anyone throws in the old standards, conversation stops. The question will go unanswered.

Besides, i don’t want to get into the Eric Cartmann theory that all Jews carry a bag of Jew gold around their necks.

I am in no way an anti-semite. I have great respect for the Jewish people. I will not sugar coat what happened to Christ. It is what it is.

 

[ralphinal]

I am in no way an anti-semite. I have great respect for the Jewish people. I will not sugar coat what happened to Christ. It is what it is.

And I am not accusing you of being one. I have not seen any proof that you are anti-anyone. People read things into posts, and that must be taken into account. By all means, preach the Good News.

 

[Righteousone]

And I am not accusing you of being one. I have not seen any proof that you are anti-anyone. People read things into posts, and that must be taken into account. By all means, preach the Good News.

Ok thanks…why are there Jewish people here on a Catholic forum if they have nothing good to say about Christ? I don’t care to hear about their hatred of Jesus.

 

[ralphinal]

Ok thanks…why are there Jewish people here on a Catholic forum if they have nothing good to say about Christ? I don’t care to hear about their hatred of Jesus.

Not to speak for them, but I think that there are several reasons. First, they want to learn more. Second, they want to show the Jewish faith. Third, they enjoy it. Finally, it’s a free country and a free site.

As far as how they talk about Jesus, for the most part, I do not see hatred. Again, you read it differently. Not that you are wrong and I am right. You may be correct and I don’t see it.

 

[Kaninchen]

Then you are saying your Old Testament also means nothing to you?

You know quite well what I meant.

That is Scripture, those are the prophets who foretold Christ.

Or not.

If you cannot and will not believe what is written, then what do you believe in as a Jew?

If you really, really want, I can provide you with links about the Jewish faith. On the other hand, google is your friend.

I understand Jews are not very religious anyway, except for the Orthodox.

You assume an awful lot, don’t you?

 

[Kaninchen]

Ok thanks…why are there Jewish people here on a Catholic forum if they have nothing good to say about Christ?

One can be interested in the consequences of what people believe without being all that interested in why they believe what they believe.

I don’t care to hear about their hatred of Jesus.

It seems that you can’t tell the difference between hatred and indifference.