To the people whom claim Alah is the same God we worship, surely cannot be?

[Montalban]

OK. Point me out to a muslim who says the God of Islam and the God of Christianity and the Jews is not the same God.

It’s in the Koran. They say we Christians worship a Trinity of Father, Son, and Holy Mother.

9: 29
Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allah, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

30 And the Jews say: 'Uzair (Ezra) is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: Messiah is the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouths. They imitate the saying of the disbelievers of old. Allah’s Curse be on them, how they are deluded away from the truth!

31 They (Jews and Christians) took their rabbis and their monks to be their lords besides Allah (by obeying them in things which they made lawful or unlawful according to their own desires without being ordered by Allah), and (they also took as their Lord) Messiah, son of Maryam (Mary), while they (Jews and Christians) were commanded in the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)) to worship none but One Ilah (God - Allah) La ilaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He) . Praise and glory be to Him, (far above is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him)."

32 They (the disbelievers, the Jews and the Christians) want to extinguish Allah’s Light (with which Muhammad has been sent - Islamic Monotheism) with their mouths, but Allah will not allow except that His Light should be perfected even though the Kafirun (disbelievers) hate (it).

 

[Trad_Catholic_1]

It’s in the Koran. They say we Christians worship a Trinity of Father, Son, and Holy Mother.

9: 29
Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allah, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

30 And the Jews say: 'Uzair (Ezra) is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: Messiah is the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouths. They imitate the saying of the disbelievers of old. Allah’s Curse be on them, how they are deluded away from the truth!

31 They (Jews and Christians) took their rabbis and their monks to be their lords besides Allah (by obeying them in things which they made lawful or unlawful according to their own desires without being ordered by Allah), and (they also took as their Lord) Messiah, son of Maryam (Mary), while they (Jews and Christians) were commanded [in the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)) to worship none but One Ilah (God - Allah) La ilaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He) . Praise and glory be to Him, (far above is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him)."

32 They (the disbelievers, the Jews and the Christians) want to extinguish Allah’s Light (with which Muhammad has been sent - Islamic Monotheism) with their mouths, but Allah will not allow except that His Light should be perfected even though the Kafirun (disbelievers) hate (it).

Where does it say we Christians worship a Trinity of Father, Son, and Holy Mother? And where exactly does any of that say that the God of Islam and the God of Christianity and the Jews is not the same God? Because they call God, Allah? Well the old Hebrews called God, Yahweh; is He a different God to what Christians call Jesus? Is it in the name, you think? All that seems to claim is that Christians are deceived…

Look, I can quote the Quran too:
*
“Strongest among men in enmity to the believers (Muslims) wilt thou find the Jews and Pagans; and nearest among them in love to the believers wilt thou find those who say, ‘We are Christians’: because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant. (The Quran, 5:82)”

“Say: ‘O People of the Book (i.e., Jews and Christians)! Come to common terms as between us and you: That we worship none but Allah; that we associate no partners with Him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than Allah.’ If then they turn back, say ye: ‘Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to Allah’s Will).’ (The Quran, 3:64)”*

See? Selectively quoting the Quran means nothing!

Look, the Church’s position on Islam is quite clear. And that is sufficient. If you have a problem with verses in the Quran, I suggest you take it up with a muslim, not me.

Paul
[/quote]

 

[BR549]

Thanks for all the replies and discussion sure is lively, I guessed it would be as we face their Jihad holy war.
It seems obvious that their religion is highly mis-informed:

They deny the 10 commandments (goodness to live by even if you were an atheist)-they violate Thou shall not kill, Love thy neighbor etc. (infidels-apparently Alah changes his own commandents???)

The Koran is full of hatred, injustice and non-tolerance just the opposite of Christianity or even Jewish tradition and most other religions (God creates in order to kill, those who love and follow him , but is it righteous under Islam?)

Islam radicals and their works (Jihad) mirror Nazi history, they had one of their leaders comply with Hitler and join them in WWII and fight for Nazi’s back then. It seems this same pure evil faces the world today. At some point we may have to do more than defend our lifes and freedoms, Catechism allows for just wars and that we do not have to be door mats for death by unrighteousness. I don’t wish WWIII but it looks like it is coming (thanks to these wonderful folks), hopefully their own brothern will wake up and deal with their internal religious problems and is happening right now (Lebannon and Iraq etc.). Purhaps the divine hand will erase this problem before it gets to far, wouldn’t that stifle Islam to see Gods hand stop them(thus Alah is not so great-obviously), we can pray for that. I would guess that if those people were allowed to be free thinkers and look at other religions, then Christianity would flourish as Love conquers Evil, ‘the gates of hell shall not prevail against us’. The bible is not found to be full of errors and the Catholic Church can defend what is in it. The Koran is full of errors and has no Apostolic successions(I believe), no Councils(like Trent etc.) or Holy Spirit to guide what is in it. So, if it did not come from God or directed by God (as we are from Apostolic, scripture, tradition and history thus far), then perhaps we know it comes from the other? (evil) Based upon our scriptures that are foretold things and do come true (Moses, Jesus etc.), I would believe that the Book of Revelation is foretold and at some point full-filled too (is it coming soon, well nobody knows that answer)…should be get prepared? (duh)

 

[Melanie01]

Of course they dont…as Catholics we recognise the Triune GodheadMuslims do not recognise Jesus Christ as divine, some Protestant sects of Christianity do not either…that is why they are seen by the RCC as heretical.

 

[Trad_Catholic_1]

This is the official Church teaching on the matter. I hope this settles it.

CCC841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”

 

[eliasaph99]

You’re kidding! So even if Moslems don’t believe we worship the same god then we do?

I am not kidding.

I’m saying that to the extent their conception of God is correct, their prayers are directed towards God. Likewise, to the extent they are incorrect they are not.

This is true even of a pagan in complete darkness. Consider someone practicing Shinto. If they completely believe all that Shinto teaches, their beliefs have very little to do with what we know as reality. But, there are some aspects which agree and are correct. The Father, in His mercy, hears them and listens when they are inclined towards the bits of Truth they do have. He does not leave people in darkness and ignore them.

I have read quite a bit about Islam and its beliefs. I think that many, (perhaps most) of the teachings of the religion are quite despicable. Frequently, what is commendable ends up completely overshadowed by the hatred and violence taught and endorsed in their scriptures.

However, they do claim to worship the God of Abraham. So if a Muslim goes to pray and in his heart he says “God of Abraham, hear me,” who hears him? To whom is he praying?

Obviously he is praying to the God of Abraham. This is my God and yours.

Of course, their conception of the God of Abraham is deeply flawed. For some individual Muslims, their conception is probably further from the Truth than a Hindu. But for some, they focus on those aspects of their conception of God that are commendable (i.e. certain branches of Sufism, and other movements within Islam).

Another angle is this. The only God who can receive worship is God, because He is the only God who exists. So, to the extent that any worship service, of any religion anywhere, is inclined towards actual, true characteristics of God, that service worships God. In different religions, the extent of this inclination would be different, and only in Catholicism is the worship of God done perfectly.

So, in a de facto way, all peoples worship the same God, because He is the only God. They worship Him in varying degrees of validity, some extremely far from the truth indeed, sometimes to the extent of not worshipping God at all (think of the Canaanites of old, putting their children through the fire). But still, for those who have some aspect correct, it must be directed towards God, because He is the only God.

Now, your reply begs this question.

Are you saying that the Muslims have to agree to something we believe in order for us to believe it?

 

[disciple68]

Ok here is the deal NO the god of Islam Allah is NOT the same God we worship. Arabic chronicles suggest a pre-Islamic recognition of Allah as a supreme God, with the three goddesses al-Lat, al-Uzza, and Manat as his “daughters.”
There fore Allah is in fact the name of an old Pagan moon Arab god from the southern part of the Arabian penninsula.
This is why the cresent moon is now the accepted symbol of Islam. Further proof is that the “holy kaaba” in mecca was already in existance an Arabs were already perfoming the Hajj to mecca before Mohammed was born.

 

[BR549]

Trad Catholic-(reply), we do endorse our Catechism (CCC841), the question becomes likean issue of law, define what that means exactly= ‘acknowledges the creator’, I would say Satan and evil ones also acknowledges the creator, too. Although Satan is a liar and a loser and not to be within the kingdom, perhaps these others might fall into the same category. It is a very tough question to fully grasp clean cut answers. I do like Forest Gump and he might say Islam is as Islam does. Let’s witness what they do. Got Beatitudes???

Do note that I believe that Muhammed has zero, ziltch, nada miracles and cures attributed with him. Perhaps Alah was absent during his tirade. Yet, Jesus was servant to Alah and Joe average prophet, according to their conception. The Koran is not fully attributed as coming from (Muh). Maybe they were left out of the loop and they needed an anchor in something or somebody so Muhammed came forth perhaps as a wolf in sheeps clothing, perhaps.

I can only imagine what their Beatitudes would say about helping us infidels. (humor intended)

(BR549=phone number of Junior Samples from hee-haw, I am not without humor)

 

[Zooey]

I disagree that Muslims worship the same God. Anyone who has read a properly translated Qur’an (not the liberalized/Westernized/watered down version American Muslims are apt to give you) knows that Muslims deny the very essence of God as understood and taught by the Jewish prophets and Christian apostles.

I see a similar problem with Christian immitations like Mormonism (of which I am a casualty).** I think religions like Mormonism and Islam are similar because they begin with charismatic leaders who try to fit in with the established religious beliefs and gradually twist them into entirely different things.**

Joseph Smith originally taught the Trinity. There is actually a short discourse on the Trinity in the Book of Mormon. Gradually, however, Smith began to play around with new theories on the nature of God.

From the Trinity he developed the idea of Two persons of one God: the Father and the Son. The Holy Spirit was at that point considered not a person or being, but merely the shared thoughts of the Father or Son.

From there, Smith decided that the Father and Son were completely separate, and human, beings. This was officially defined in what is now known as the King Follet Discourse. *[In it, Smith also taught that God is not the creator of all things because nothing is created. Instead, the Father is really just a human made into a god by **his *God. This cycle never began and will never end because Mormons will be made into gods, produce “spirit offspring” who will become human and in turn, gods themselves.]

Doctrine concerning the Holy Ghost was not defined for quite some time. Gradually the Holy Ghost came to be known as the third, separate person in the “Godhead.” The Holy Ghost, unlike the Father and Son, is not human and will never possess a human body.

Now, if the several Mormon gods were “inspired” by the one true Christian God but contradict His very essence, are they the same? Do Mormons worship the Creator of All Things?

The answer is, of course, no. Jimmy Akin’s method is both faulty and disputed by the Mormons and the Muslims themselves. When you hear the current Mormon “prophet” saying that the Jesus of the Christians “is not the Christ of whom I speak,” it’s hard to argue! According to Mormon doctrine Jesus: was not always a god, but eventually became one after his mortal life and ressurection; is not one person of the triune God, but is one of billions of separate gods; created nothing and is your, my, and the Devil’s equal; was conceived by ordinary means by the HUMAN “God the Father” having literal, physical sex with Mary; was a polygamist; and on and on…

I could go on this way about Islam as well, but I figured someone else would do it. I just wanted to make the point using Mormonism as an example, since it is more similar to Catholicism than Islam is.
Oh, wow!! That really clarifies things in my mind…I have read that Archbishop Fulton Sheen said that Islam was a heresy. But I never thought to make this comparison. Looking at it this way, helps me understand Islam & Mormons better. Thank you!! Great insight!!

 

[Montalban]

A

Where does it say we Christians worship a Trinity of Father, Son, and Holy Mother? And where exactly does any of that say that the God of Islam and the God of Christianity and the Jews is not the same God? Because they call God, Allah? Well the old Hebrews called God, Yahweh; is He a different God to what Christians call Jesus? Is it in the name, you think? All that seems to claim is that Christians are deceived…

The following verse is simply to show that they
urge their followers to fight Christians…
9: 29
Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allah, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

object to us taking Jesus as “Lord”…
9:30 And the Jews say: 'Uzair (Ezra) is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: Messiah is the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouths. They imitate the saying of the disbelievers of old. Allah’s Curse be on them, how they are deluded away from the truth!

31 They (Jews and Christians) took their rabbis and their monks to be their lords besides Allah (by obeying them in things which they made lawful or unlawful according to their own desires without being ordered by Allah), and (they also took as their Lord) Messiah, son of Maryam (Mary), while they (Jews and Christians) were commanded [in the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)) to worship none but One Ilah (God - Allah) La ilaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He) . Praise and glory be to Him, (far above is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him)."

The verse to do with the Trinity is…
5.116 And when Allah will say: O Isa son of Marium! did you say to men, Take me and my mother for two gods besides Allah he will say: Glory be to Thee, it did not befit me that I should say what I had no right to (say); if I had said it, Thou wouldst indeed have known it; Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I do not know what is in Thy mind, surely Thou art the great Knower of the unseen things.

It’s admonishing Christians for taking ‘two gods besides Allah’

Look, I can quote the Quran too:
Good for you. Can you do so without using abrogated verses? You show you can’t.
Trad Catholic;1860683:

See? Selectively quoting the Quran means nothing!

You are correct. You shouldn’t do it.

Look, the Church’s position on Islam is quite clear. And that is sufficient. If you have a problem with verses in the Quran, I suggest you take it up with a muslim, not me.

Ah, the church says it, end of debate.

You should end all discussions with this thought. It certainly would shorten deliberations here.

 

[Montalban]

I am not kidding.

Sounded like you were.

I’m saying that to the extent their conception of God is correct, their prayers are directed towards God. Likewise, to the extent they are incorrect they are not.

This is true even of a pagan in complete darkness. Consider someone practicing Shinto. If they completely believe all that Shinto teaches, their beliefs have very little to do with what we know as reality. But, there are some aspects which agree and are correct. The Father, in His mercy, hears them and listens when they are inclined towards the bits of Truth they do have. He does not leave people in darkness and ignore them.

So God, answering these pagan prayers would be encouraging them to continue paganism. Because it works.

I have read quite a bit about Islam and its beliefs. I think that many, (perhaps most) of the teachings of the religion are quite despicable. Frequently, what is commendable ends up completely overshadowed by the hatred and violence taught and endorsed in their scriptures.

However, they do claim to worship the God of Abraham. So if a Muslim goes to pray and in his heart he says “God of Abraham, hear me,” who hears him? To whom is he praying?

By your logic if I sacrifice my child to the god I call the God of Abraham, I’m sacrificing my child to God, simply by virtue that I believe it is so.

Simon Magus thought that he could buy heavenly powers. Why was this wrong, if it didn’t matter how he did it, so long as he spread the word of God?

Why object to Protestants (and they DO believe in the same God). It doesn’t matter, as long as they worship God in their own way.

Moslems; and their god is not God, but a created being.

Are you saying that the Muslims have to agree to something we believe in order for us to believe it?

We already would believe in it, wouldn’t we!

 

[Trad_Catholic_1]

Trad Catholic-(reply), we do endorse our Catechism (CCC841), the question becomes likean issue of law, define what that means exactly= ‘acknowledges the creator’, I would say Satan and evil ones also acknowledges the creator, too. Although Satan is a liar and a loser and not to be within the kingdom, perhaps these others might fall into the same category. It is a very tough question to fully grasp clean cut answers. I do like Forest Gump and he might say Islam is as Islam does. Let’s witness what they do. Got Beatitudes???

Do note that I believe that Muhammed has zero, ziltch, nada miracles and cures attributed with him. Perhaps Alah was absent during his tirade. Yet, Jesus was servant to Alah and Joe average prophet, according to their conception. The Koran is not fully attributed as coming from (Muh). Maybe they were left out of the loop and they needed an anchor in something or somebody so Muhammed came forth perhaps as a wolf in sheeps clothing, perhaps.

I can only imagine what their Beatitudes would say about helping us infidels. (humor intended)

(BR549=phone number of Junior Samples from hee-haw, I am not without humor)

Note that the Catechism says nothing about Muhammed or the Quran.

Personally I believe that the Quran was inspired by Satan or simply a product of Muhammed’s deluded mind. The other possibility of course is, like the Book of Mormon, it was nothing but an elaborate con-trick. A hoax intended only to make Muhammed rich and powerful. Yes, give praise to God… but give all the profits and power to me. Muhammed’s knowledge of the true God - the God of Abraham - he picked up via Judaism or Christianity. Certainly no direct revelation for him.

I do not underestimate the menace of Islam, but I see it as a symptom of a greater evil.

These evil influences I believe are the result of an unfettered free-market economy. Our lords and masters are from an elite merchant class who want to make money and own and control us at any cost. This Satanic body has no loyalty to faith or family. Profits are their God.

Let the poor be emersed in drugs: someone is making huge profits out of it.

Let people lose jobs, wages and employment conditions through mass immigration and economic globalization: someone is making huge profits out of it.

Let the family as the basis of social identity be displaced and dwindle while women are now expected to behave like men and men like women: someone is making huge profits out of it.

Let Europe lose its Christian character, which in turn allows all manner of degeneracy such as homosexuality and abortion resulting in people converting to Islam because of its strong moral appeal: someone is making huge profits out of it.

And so we come to today.

Paul.

 

[eliasaph99]

Sounded like you were.

So God, answering these pagan prayers would be encouraging them to continue paganism. Because it works.

No. I didn’t say that God answered those prayers directed to pagan deities or to completely false conceptions of God. I said, to the extent that some aspect of a god that those in darkness pray to agrees with the true God, the true God hears them. He leads them towards the light and prepares their heart to receive the Gospel. He doesn’t do this by abandoning and utterly forsaking them because they are in error.

By your logic if I sacrifice my child to the god I call the God of Abraham, I’m sacrificing my child to God, simply by virtue that I believe it is so.

No. Child sacrifice is not a form of worship which would be pleasing to God, therefore He would reject it. The sacrifice would be worthless. Not to mention evil. Clearly, I said that the worship must agree with correct and proper worship.

Simon Magus thought that he could buy heavenly powers. Why was this wrong, if it didn’t matter how he did it, so long as he spread the word of God?

This question has nothing to do with the discussion. I don’t understand why you’ve put it here.

Why object to Protestants (and they DO believe in the same God). It doesn’t matter, as long as they worship God in their own way.

**You’re insinuating that the last sentence above is the logical total of what I have written. This is false. I have not said “it doesn’t matter, as long as they worship God in their own way.” I have said that God has not abandoned men simply because they, in their ignorance, don’t know who He is. This is what you seem to be saying. That is not Christ. It is not the Father. It is not the Holy Spirit. God loves mankind and is willing that all would be saved.

As for Protestantism, my main objection is not directed at the rank and file, but mostly towards the leaders and the founders. The founders, in most cases, had the full Truth and rejected it. They damaged the Body of Christ. Most of those in Protestantism today don’t know what they’re missing. In a strict sense, they are not guilty of the sins of their fathers.

So, why not just leave them be since they believe in the same God? For one thing, the only sure way the Church knows of to get to Heaven and be reconciled to God is through the Sacraments in the Church. We know, because Christ taught us, that this way is the Way. In God’s mercy, those not formally in the Way may not be consigned to Hell, but from what we were taught by Christ and the Apostles, the chance of that happening is slim.

Also, they are our brothers and sisters. Why would we leave them in a state of incomplete communion with Christ?

Most of them sincerely desire to follow and serve Christ and try to do this. Why leave them in a state which hampers this ability?

There are plenty of reasons, all of which have their root in love and reunion, to reach out to Protestants, without condemning their worship and telling them how incorrect it is.**

Moslems; and their god is not God, but a created being.

Maybe. But some of the aspects of this being were taken directly from the Christians and Jews that Muhammad came in contact with. Some of the stories in the Quran are almost verbatim from the Talmud. That’s why so many of their attributes of God agree with ours. Muhammad learned from us and our Jewish brothers.

We already would believe in it, wouldn’t we!

 

[Montalban]

Montalban:

So God, answering these pagan prayers would be encouraging them to continue paganism. Because it works.

eliasaph99:

No. I didn’t say that God answered those prayers directed to pagan deities or to completely false conceptions of God. I said, to the extent that some aspect of a god that those in darkness pray to agrees with the true God, the true God hears them.

That’s then semantics. He hears them, and doesn’t answer them.

eliasaph99:

He leads them towards the light and prepares their heart to receive the Gospel. He doesn’t do this by abandoning and utterly forsaking them because they are in error.

I agree that he would lead them to the light, but he wouldn’t do that through the medium of their false rituals. These rituals don’t lead to God. Islam doesn’t lead to God - regardless of their claims.

Montalban:

By your logic if I sacrifice my child to the god I call the God of Abraham, I’m sacrificing my child to God, simply by virtue that I believe it is so.

eliasaph99:

No. Child sacrifice is not a form of worship which would be pleasing to God, therefore He would reject it. The sacrifice would be worthless. Not to mention evil. Clearly, I said that the worship must agree with correct and proper worship.

And Islam is not. Therefore Moslems don’t worship God.

Montalban:

Simon Magus thought that he could buy heavenly powers. Why was this wrong, if it didn’t matter how he did it, so long as he spread the word of God?

eliasaph99:

This question has nothing to do with the discussion. I don’t understand why you’ve put it here.

Just because Simon Magus thought he was getting closer to God, he wasn’t. Moslems think that they are. And they’re not.

Montalban:

Why object to Protestants (and they DO believe in the same God). It doesn’t matter, as long as they worship God in their own way.

eliasaph99:

You’re insinuating that the last sentence above is the logical total of what I have written. This is false. I have not said “it doesn’t matter, as long as they worship God in their own way.” I have said that God has not abandoned men simply because they, in their ignorance, don’t know who He is. This is what you seem to be saying. That is not Christ. It is not the Father. It is not the Holy Spirit. God loves mankind and is willing that all would be saved.

I don’t say that they’re abandoned by God, at all. I’m saying that they’ve abandoned God by false worship.

eliasaph99:

Maybe. But some of the aspects of this being were taken directly from the Christians and Jews that Muhammad came in contact with. Some of the stories in the Quran are almost verbatim from the Talmud. That’s why so many of their attributes of God agree with ours. Muhammad learned from us and our Jewish brothers.

And Voodoo has ‘Christian’ elements too.

Muhammad learnt from Christian heretics. It’s why he makes so many tell-tale mistakes, such as the belief we worship a different Trinity.

 

[eliasaph99]

That’s then semantics. He hears them, and doesn’t answer them.

I agree that he would lead them to the light, but he wouldn’t do that through the medium of their false rituals. These rituals don’t lead to God. Islam doesn’t lead to God - regardless of their claims.

And Islam is not. Therefore Moslems don’t worship God.

Just because Simon Magus thought he was getting closer to God, he wasn’t. Moslems think that they are. And they’re not.

I don’t say that they’re abandoned by God, at all. I’m saying that they’ve abandoned God by false worship.

And Voodoo has ‘Christian’ elements too.

Muhammad learnt from Christian heretics. It’s why he makes so many tell-tale mistakes, such as the belief we worship a different Trinity.

OK.

I think that you should take a look at how St. Augustine assessed the writings of the Greek philosophers. He certainly believed that they had found some part of the True God.

I’m reading Confessions right now and there is a section where he alludes to what they have found. Even that there is some of the Gospel in what the Greek, pagan philosophers wrote.

You said in the first statement that what I’m arguing is semantics, but I’m not trying to turn everything on the difference between hears and answers. I wasn’t making that fine of a distinction. Go ahead and insert the other word.

Christ said that God sends His rain on the righteous and the unrighteous alike. He knows the heart of men and individual man. I think it is line with our understanding of His character to believe that He would respond to someone reaching out to Him, no matter in what ceremony or darkness that person was. I also don’t think that this would necessarily confirm them in their ritual. God could do it in a way that would lead them towards the Truth.

 

[colliric]

The word Allah simply means God in Arabic. It is also used by Christians in the middle east, because it is not the personal name of the Islam god, it is simply the word for “God”.

Like Christians however, they choose to name their god by that word. If I was an Arabic Christian in the middle east, I would be using the same word. Even if I was a Catholic.

A lot of people make the mistake of therefore equating “Allah” with only being the personal name of the Islamic god, when in fact it is also the name used by Christians who speak that language because it is actually the word “God” and also the name for the Muslim god.

You must therefore understand the phrase there is no Allah but Allah.

They are not the same god, but they are both called God.

 

[BR549]

Thanks for the responses, agree about terminology of the names you mentioned. Also, agree that they are not the same God and would have a type written list of reasons. Amongest the obvious is their claims and foundation of their prophet and Koran, thus the whole religion. If it weren’t for the penalties of death, these followers would drop this ideology in numbers, once they are allowed to have freedom of mind-practices and free will. Hopefully the truth and light will come to them very soon or they can have their own internal civil wars and learn some lessons on humanity.

 

[Trad_Catholic_1]

You must therefore understand the phrase there is no Allah but Allah.

They are not the same god, but they are both called God.

Well there’s only one God Almighty. No other god exists. So how can it not be the same God?

 

[Contarini]

Thanks for the responses, agree about terminology of the names you mentioned. Also, agree that they are not the same God and would have a type written list of reasons. Amongest the obvious is their claims and foundation of their prophet and Koran, thus the whole religion. If it weren’t for the penalties of death, these followers would drop this ideology in numbers, once they are allowed to have freedom of mind-practices and free will…

This seems highly speculative at best, and indeed all the evidence I can see is against you. It would in many ways be in the interests of American Muslims to abandon Islam, yet very few do so. Indeed, quite a few people convert to Islam.

It’s tough to face the fact that people can freely choose a religion we don’t believe in. But it’s part of life–it happens all the time. Making up comfortable fantasies about millions of cowering Muslims afraid to think is a self-destructive and delusional practice.

I don’t know if you are Catholic or not, but it astounds me how often Catholics on this board mimic traditional anti-Catholic rhetoric when they come to speak of Muslims. I don’t understand how they can avoid the question: if we know that this sort of language was bigoted nonsense when applied to us, isn’t it likely that it’s no more valid when applied to members of any other religion?

In Christ,

Edwin

 

[Contarini]

The word Allah simply means God in Arabic. It is also used by Christians in the middle east, because it is not the personal name of the Islam god, it is simply the word for “God”.

Like Christians however, they choose to name their god by that word. If I was an Arabic Christian in the middle east, I would be using the same word. Even if I was a Catholic.

A lot of people make the mistake of therefore equating “Allah” with only being the personal name of the Islamic god, when in fact it is also the name used by Christians who speak that language because it is actually the word “God” and also the name for the Muslim god.

You must therefore understand the phrase there is no Allah but Allah.

They are not the same god, but they are both called God.

That doesn’t make sense. All monotheists believe in the same God, period.

Edwin