To the people whom claim Alah is the same God we worship, surely cannot be?

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Hello ,

This subject never runs out of fuel. I am a muslim and i have been trying to clarify this subject for years now .

My friends, there is one creator to this universe and he is the God of this universe. He sent prophets and messengers to guide people to him and he will raise us from earth on Judgement day to account for our actions.

In Arabic , the name of this God is Allah . and names Dont matter .

Yes you read that correct. names dont matter . You can be born and live and die a muslim and not utter the word Allah once in your life.

There is a correct understadning if whoi is God In islam . If you believe in it then you are a true submitter to God ( Muslim)

We muslims believe that all prophets and messengers had the saem belief and understanding and they shared the trait of bieng submitters to God . They had differences in legislation sometimes according to the era they were living in however their belief was same and identical.

This belief doesnt include the trinity or any similar concept.

Just one God , one form , one entity , non human , never was or is or wil be somthing like him . never took shape of anything we have ever dreamed of . We will only be able to see him on Judgement day . and Godwillingly later in heaven.

For us muslims, this understanding seems closer to how Jews understand God than current Christianity. Essentially because the elemination of the trinity aspect .

So if christianity worships jesus then they worship another God than the jews and the muslims.

If christianity worships the God of the jews as in the jewish understanding then they worship the same God as the jews and teh muslims.

If christianity worships the God of the jews and Muslims however with Jesus and trinity embeded then their understanding of God is not correct.

hope i clarified
meedo
 
meedo said:
Hello ,

This subject never runs out of fuel. I am a muslim and i have been trying to clarify this subject for years now .

My friends, there is one creator to this universe and he is the God of this universe. He sent prophets and messengers to guide people to him and he will raise us from earth on Judgement day to account for our actions.

In Arabic , the name of this God is Allah . and names Dont matter .

Yes you read that correct. names dont matter . You can be born and live and die a muslim and not utter the word Allah once in your life.

There is a correct understadning if whoi is God In islam . If you believe in it then you are a true submitter to God ( Muslim)

We muslims believe that all prophets and messengers had the saem belief and understanding and they shared the trait of bieng submitters to God . They had differences in legislation sometimes according to the era they were living in however their belief was same and identical.

This belief doesnt include the trinity or any similar concept.

Just one God , one form , one entity , non human , never was or is or wil be somthing like him . never took shape of anything we have ever dreamed of . We will only be able to see him on Judgement day . and Godwillingly later in heaven.

For us muslims, this understanding seems closer to how Jews understand God than current Christianity. Essentially because the elemination of the trinity aspect .

So if christianity worships jesus then they worship another God than the jews and the muslims.

If christianity worships the God of the jews as in the jewish understanding then they worship the same God as the jews and teh muslims.

If christianity worships the God of the jews and Muslims however with Jesus and trinity embeded then their understanding of God is not correct.

hope i clarified
meedo
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Hi Meedo.
So you worship the Jewish God?
 
meedo said:
So if christianity worships jesus then they worship another God than the jews and the muslims.
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This is what you fail to understand. We do not worship another God. Once upon a time God came to earth. He put himself into His own creation. Jesus was God; that is why Jesus IS God.

Yours in Christ

Paul
 
We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds; God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God; begotten, not made,** being of one substance with the Father**, by whom all things were made.

Who, for us men for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the virgin Mary, and was made man; and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate; He suffered and was buried; and the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures; and ascended into heaven, and sits on the right hand of the Father; and He shall come again, with glory, to judge the quick and the dead; whose kingdom shall have no end.

And we believe in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of Life; who proceeds from the Father and the Son; who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; who spoke through the prophets.

And we believe one holy catholic and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins; and we look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come.
 
eliasaph99 said:
OK.

I think that you should take a look at how St. Augustine assessed the writings of the Greek philosophers. He certainly believed that they had found some part of the True God.

I’m reading Confessions right now and there is a section where he alludes to what they have found. Even that there is some of the Gospel in what the Greek, pagan philosophers wrote.
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As you want to rely on Augustine know that Augustine said that the devils acknowledge Jesus is God. “For “the devils also believe and tremble,” as the Scripture tells us.”
ccel.org/fathers2/NPNF1-06/npnf1-06-43.htm#P4186_1789723

Are the devils (demons) on the path to Christianity because they know God?
eliasaph99 said:
You said in the first statement that what I’m arguing is semantics, but I’m not trying to turn everything on the difference between hears and answers. I wasn’t making that fine of a distinction. Go ahead and insert the other word.

Christ said that God sends His rain on the righteous and the unrighteous alike. He knows the heart of men and individual man. I think it is line with our understanding of His character to believe that He would respond to someone reaching out to Him, no matter in what ceremony or darkness that person was. I also don’t think that this would necessarily confirm them in their ritual. God could do it in a way that would lead them towards the Truth.
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He would be responding out of love for them, not because their ceremonies are for him. Their ceremonies are false.
 
Trad_Catholic said:
We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds; God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God; begotten, not made,** being of one substance with the Father**, by whom all things were made.

Who, for us men for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the virgin Mary, and was made man; and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate; He suffered and was buried; and the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures; and ascended into heaven, and sits on the right hand of the Father; and He shall come again, with glory, to judge the quick and the dead; whose kingdom shall have no end.

And we believe in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of Life; who proceeds from the Father-] and the Son/-]; who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; who spoke through the prophets.

And we believe one holy catholic and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins; and we look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come.
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(edited to reflect original wording -without Catholic additions)
 
Trad_Catholic said:
Well there’s only one God Almighty. No other god exists. So how can it not be the same God?
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So when Moses went up to the mountain and the Hebrew people made a golden calf, they were still worshipping God? Why was Moses angry then?
 
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Meedo:
Hello ,
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G’day
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Meedo:
This subject never runs out of fuel. I am a muslim and i have been trying to clarify this subject for years now .

My friends, there is one creator to this universe and he is the God of this universe. He sent prophets and messengers to guide people to him and he will raise us from earth on Judgement day to account for our actions.

In Arabic , the name of this God is Allah . and names Dont matter .

Yes you read that correct. names dont matter . You can be born and live and die a muslim and not utter the word Allah once in your life.

There is a correct understadning if whoi is God In islam . If you believe in it then you are a true submitter to God ( Muslim)
Click to expand...
That’s false. The Koran calls Jews and Christians deceivers because we believe in God in a different way from Islam. It’s not enough to believe in God, but to believe in God in the correct manner.
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Meedo:
We muslims believe that all prophets and messengers had the saem belief and understanding and they shared the trait of bieng submitters to God . They had differences in legislation sometimes according to the era they were living in however their belief was same and identical.
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You believe that the prophets submitted to God in the right way but that the followers of these prophets distorted the law.
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Meedo:
So if christianity worships jesus then they worship another God than the jews and the muslims.
Click to expand...
Jesus is God
 
Trad_Catholic said:
This is what you fail to understand. We do not worship another God. Once upon a time God came to earth. He put himself into His own creation. Jesus was God; that is why Jesus IS God.
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This is not correct.

We woship God, who is God. They (Moslems) worship a created being which they call a god. They are not the same
 
Montalban said:
(edited to reflect original wording -without Catholic additions)
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Montalban

You are clearly a troll. You appear to be nothing but a mindless Islamophobe devoid to all reason. You are probably a Catholic hater too. Your opinions, such as they are, are completely worthless.
 
Discussions such as these are interesting. Perhaps we should also acknowledge that ‘Our God’ gave us the 10 commandents, about 2000 years before good ole Muhammed and Islams Koran and the therefore invention of Alah and the throughing away of all prior history, to be replaced by Muhammed who is without miracles and basically is no role model of a prophet anyway. Given free will Islamic brothers your faithful ones would deminish big time, that is why you kill them for leaving your wonderful faith. Naturally Alah is pleased when you kill anything.

How does Alah fit into those commandments is:

Though Shalt Not have false Gods before me, (I am a jealous God etc.)-he said his name is IAM=Yaweh

No false idols, prophets and such is part of the doctrine too.

Jews were handed the commandents(not Arabs), since Moses was gone awhile some of them fashioned the Golden Calf in error, as they did not know whom exactly their God was just yet. Moses straighten out the false notions not long after, they received punishment from God as the bible mentions. Punishment will await the next whom desecrate his commandments and produce false Gods, would be in line with this concept. Islam is wearing a milestone.

Religions that do not know whom God really is but are pious to a righteous one are atleast seeking the right direction and have clean hearts. Islam is without clean hearts via their Arabic Koran which is not watered down and flavored for converts like the non-Arabic(U.S.) editions (fyi). The messages within are evil in content and works, those are not messages from our God, but more likely the evil one.

God hand was with Abraham, Moses, Joshua, the prophets, history shows the Jews were the chosen people and lead out of bondage from Egyptians (Arabs), Pharoah was defeated by a Jew because God was with him, God was not with the Egyptians whom would have probably taken on Islam had it been around back then(as they are now Islamic). Not to mention yet Jesus and HIS-TORY, the word comes from His-Story all recorded time and space come from his coming. Our calendars are B.C. (before Christ) & A.D. (anno dominium=year of dominion, not after death). Islam does not embrace this calendar(otherwise they are false in their own eyes), but most of the world does. Most of the world acknowledges Jesus, even Muslims do not deny of him. On going works on earth are seen from the Trinity, Jesus and Mary (Fatima, Lourdes, Guadalupe etc.). and Saints, Popes , Nunns-Angelica, Faustina, etc. I don’t believe Islam or other religions can even hold a candle to the righteous paths of ‘The Way.’ St. Paul is a great role model for learning the correct way to follow our God, it is not by forced methodology, but via learning, knowing and conversion, letting the scales fall from your eyes of blindness.

I contend Islam in its totality is not from a loving God creator, who might promote the killing of us infidels and to reward unrighteous (non-beatitude type) killers with a number of virgins to screw as a rewards. Goes against sanity, the X commandents again, love and Gods own grace, would God wants his followers and worshipers killed by Jihadies???(why?)

I know this continues in debate, guess I have gotten off my chest as to what I would embrace. If St. Paul was here today he would be bold enough to tell Muslims (nicer perhaps) that you are worshipping the wrong God and unrighteousness. He did so in other venues, in his time.

Peace on earth
 
Montalban said:
As you want to rely on Augustine know that Augustine said that the devils acknowledge Jesus is God. “For “the devils also believe and tremble,” as the Scripture tells us.”
ccel.org/fathers2/NPNF1-06/npnf1-06-43.htm#P4186_1789723

Are the devils (demons) on the path to Christianity because they know God?

I never claimed that the Muslims are on the path to Christianity.

He would be responding out of love for them, not because their ceremonies are for him. Their ceremonies are false.

That’s true. I never said that their ceremonies are for Him.
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BR549 said:
I contend Islam in its totality is not from a loving God creator, who might promote the killing of us infidels and to reward unrighteous (non-beatitude type) killers with a number of virgins to screw as a rewards. Goes against sanity, the X commandents again, love and Gods own grace, would God wants his followers and worshipers killed by Jihadies???(why?)
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I agree. Jesus warned about false prophets who’d come after him.

Nothing about Islam leads us to Jesus; who *is *God.
 
Montalban said:
What then, is your point?

So when God responds to them it’s nothing to do with their false beliefs. How then is Islam worshipping God?
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I already answered these questions. You’re being pedantically circular.

I never claimed that Islam is worshipping God. I said that when an element of worship in Islam corresponds with correct worship, that that element is directed towards and received by the True God.

You’re an incredibly difficult person to carry on a conversation with. I’ve never had my words twisted by someone so much. It’s really quite ridiculous.
 
eliasaph99 said:
I already answered these questions. You’re being pedantically circular.
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What by asking you questions? Wow!
eliasaph99 said:
I never claimed that Islam is worshipping God. I said that when an element of worship in Islam corresponds with correct worship, that that element is directed towards and received by the True God.
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So they’re correctly worshipping God (in part) and he answers them). That makes it perfectly clear.

Which parts are correct worship of God?
eliasaph99 said:
You’re an incredibly difficult person to carry on a conversation with. I’ve never had my words twisted by someone so much. It’s really quite ridiculous.
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Your comments are so vague and you don’t seem to like questions.
 
This thread is now closed. Thank you to all who have participated.

God bless
 
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