To what degree are other denominations going to hell?

[AshleyBelle]

That’s odd… I’ve never heard a Catholic tell that to anyone. I’ve been a Catholic for 58 years, and have never said that to anyone.

That’s odd… I went to Parochial school in the 60’s…and I never heard that…not once, nor later in Catechism.

"Balderdash X TWO!! The Catechism does not and never has required “interpretation” by a Priest. And “Priest’s” do not possess “infallibility”. Therefore, with the exception of the Pope speaking “ex cathedra”…no-one can state to speak free from error.

My “skepticism” meter is swinging into the RED…

I just want to jump in, and say something that others have repeated SO much on the threads…

It is true…there is no salvation outside the church. But many people read that and interpret it to mean you must be in full communion with the Catholic church to obtain salvation…
It is saying there is no salvation outside of the church, which is the body of Christ… The body of Christ includes all of those who hold a part of the truth Christ came to reveal
It is not just “catholics” but our seperated brothers and sisters as well. Jesus came to give us the fullness of the truth, which we believe is contained and protected by the Catholic church, which He established.
However, Christ is all saving, thus truth is all saving. It is not for us to judge condemnation on ANYONE…only God can know the status of a person’s soul. Where there is truth, there is Christ. And anyone who holds faithfully to Christ is still connected to His body, the church

I hope that helps!

 

[racing59]

That’s odd… I’ve never heard a Catholic tell that to anyone. I’ve been a Catholic for 58 years, and have never said that to anyone.

That’s odd… I went to Parochial school in the 60’s…and I never heard that…not once, nor later in Catechism.

"Balderdash X TWO!! The Catechism does not and never has required “interpretation” by a Priest. And “Priest’s” do not possess “infallibility”. Therefore, with the exception of the Pope speaking “ex cathedra”…no-one can state to speak free from error.

My “skepticism” meter is swinging into the RED…

I went to 12 years of Catholic school and Catholic College were I majored in theology. I have taught Bible Studies in parishes and Apologetics. I do know what I’m talking about! Priest are heads of parishes, I never said they were speaking “ex cathedra”, just the opposite many do not follow the teachings of the Church and say they are the only ones that can interpret the CCC not the laity. I could give you names of prominent Catholics that told me I was going to go to hell, but I will not go down to that level. Try teaching Apologetics some time out in parishes and watch what happens. I do not like to bash anyone, but I will speak the truth of how I was treated and had no support. After all are we all not after truth on these post. I can only tell you what I was taught and experienced. I didn’t ask you your experience.

 

[RobHom]

I went to 12 years of Catholic school and Catholic College were I majored in theology. I have taught Bible Studies in parishes and Apologetics. I do know what I’m talking about! Priest are heads of parishes, I never said they were speaking “ex cathedra”, just the opposite many do not follow the teachings of the Church and say they are the only ones that can interpret the CCC not the laity. I could give you names of prominent Catholics that told me I was going to go to hell, but I will not go down to that level. Try teaching Apologetics some time out in parishes and watch what happens. I do not like to bash anyone, but I will speak the truth of how I was treated and had no support. After all are we all not after truth on these post. I can only tell you what I was taught and experienced. I didn’t ask you your experience.

Whether or not you asked for my “experience” is moot. I am ever amazed at the “former Catholics” who make declarations of misdeeds by Catholic Clergy…if I had only a nickel for everyone of them… I could buy a new Lamborghini!!

I have yet to encounter a Priest or Nun who said or taught anything different than Rome. I have never had anyone tell me I could not read a Bible, or that I could not derive meaning from it, nor have I ever had any person in the Church tell me that I had to get an interpretation of the Catechism from a Priest. Sorry… I have grave doubts where you are concerned.

 

[racing59]

Whether or not you asked for my “experience” is moot. I am ever amazed at the “former Catholics” who make declarations of misdeeds by Catholic Clergy…if I had only a nickel for everyone of them… I could buy a new Lamborghini!!

I have yet to encounter a Priest or Nun who said or taught anything different than Rome. I have never had anyone tell me I could not read a Bible, or that I could not derive meaning from it, nor have I ever had any person in the Church tell me that I had to get an interpretation of the Catechism from a Priest. Sorry… I have grave doubts where you are concerned.

It amazes me to see a Catholic that is in denial. I suppose no children ever got touched also. So typical when some one reaches out to find their way, you try to deflate their experiences. I suggest you go to L.A., California and do your homework. They do not allow Catholic Family Conferences there. I suggest you stop and find out what is going on outside a few parishes. I suggest you talk to Apologest like Tim Staples. I know a priest who was persecuted for teaching the same as Rome. IT JUST AMAZES me how others can not share about false teachers out and about the Catholic Church. May-be if some one was supportive there would not be so many ex-Catholics. How can priest that teach false doctrine be in positions of power and to hell with the rest of us. Get your head out of the sand!

 

[RobHom]

It amazes me to see a Catholic that is in denial. I suppose no children ever got touched also.

No my friend, I am well aware that “denial” is not a river in Egypt. If you want to cruise down the street of sexual abuse by clergy…here’s a flash in your pan: reformation.com/ Some very interesting reading on that site…

So typical when some one reaches out to find their way, you try to deflate their experiences.

If you are lost…why not say so. No-one is trying to “deflate” your experience…by the way, putting on victims rags and smearing your face with ashes is rather sophomoric.

I suggest you go to L.A., California and do your homework. They do not allow Catholic Family Conferences there.

Really? You sure? Seems you’re a little out of touch. According to this: catholicresourcecenter.org/conferences.shtml this just occurred out there:

** National Catholic Family Conference
August 2-3, 2008
Anaheim Convention Center
Anaheim, CA**

I suggest you stop and find out what is going on outside a few parishes.

I live in Florida…not likely to spend much time on the left coast.

I suggest you talk to Apologest like Tim Staples. I know a priest who was persecuted for teaching the same as Rome.

Come now…you don’t actually expect me to buy that now do you?

IT JUST AMAZES me how others can not share about false teachers out and about the Catholic Church.

You cannot expect me to “share” anything about “false teachers” when I have not encountered any. That is the simple truth in the matter. I have lived all over the world in my 58 years, and have yet to have any member of the Catholic Clergy mislead me or try to tell me something in contravention with the Church.

May-be if some one was supportive there would not be so many ex-Catholics. How can priest that teach false doctrine be in positions of power and to hell with the rest of us. Get your head out of the sand!

I can be as supportive as anyone. I am being supportive. Maybe not in your eyes, but perhaps in the eyes of another. Your “claimed” experiences are diametrically opposed to mine. Call it being fair and balanced…oh gosh…I used a “fox-ism”…

As to a Priest teaching “false doctrine”… I would have to ask: If it was false…why did you not make written complaint to the Bishop or even the Cardinal? You just sat on your hands?

My head is not in the “sand”… But I surmise that you may be shoveling it.

 

[racing59]

No my friend, I am well aware that “denial” is not a river in Egypt. If you want to cruise down the street of sexual abuse by clergy…here’s a flash in your pan: reformation.com/ Some very interesting reading on that site…

National Catholic Family Conference
August 2-3, 2008
Anaheim Convention Center
Anaheim, CA

I hate to break this to you Anaheim is not in L.A. County,but Orange County. I want to ask you a question have you ever had a child that was abused? Well I have! Not fun thing to go through. You keep dismissing my experiences it is amazing and typical. I did not go to the Bishop because Barns and Mahonie were against Apologetics, evangelizing like the Holy Father called us to, among other teachings from Rome, and l I watch others that had complained get knocked down. There is an old saying " You can’t fight city hall." I left because I could not stomach the way people were treated let alone the Eucharist. I would probably be in the Eastern Church now, but there are none in the area I live in.

 

[Ruthie]

Racing, I am so sorry that your child was abused, and I don’t say that lightly. I have a very hard time (to put it mildly) being charitable about abusers.

I’m also sorry that you have met priests who were not teaching the real truth. Yes, they are out there, to the disgust of all faithful Catholics.

Yes, I have seen people (even on these forums) take “There is no salvation outside the Church” at no more than face value, and tell non-Catholic Christians that they are going to hell. They are wrong. They make me mad. They forget John 3:16, among other things. And they haven’t read the Catechism.

And yes, we have had Bishops who covered up abuse, and Bishops who do not follow Church teaching. They should know better. They may be paying for it in the future…

You have had a rough and awful time. Not only were your legitimate concerns for truth brushed off by the “can’t fight city hall” attitude, but your family was betrayed in the most awful, hurtful, damaging way possible. No wonder you feel like the Church left you.

But it wasn’t the Church herself, the one Jesus founded, that let you down so horribly. It was people, humans, who were false to the Church’s real teachings. Unfortunately, you were in a real snake pit full of them. (I wish Jesus would give us some “snake” repellent.) Unfortunately, the Church is for saving sinners, all of them, even the ones I’d rather squash like a bug.

Praying for healing for you and your family,

Ruthie

 

[Sailka]

Some friends host a Bible study at the local megachurch and I went to check out what they teach. One of the key themes of the study was that doctrine doesn’t matter so long as we all believe the basics (“90% cut-and-dry with the other 10% not being a big deal,” as one man said.) This sort of talk was repeated so often and in so many different ways I started to lose my head - I felt like Eustace and Jill in the smoke-filled room of the Witch. So, I stamped my foot in the fire by saying I baptized my children as infants and believe they became Christians at that point, and they would be forever unless they rejected Christ. There would never be a “decision” moment, ever. After some shock and bewilderment I was asked, among other things, if I would say that someone who chose not to be baptized but “was a Christian in every other way” would go to hell. I didn’t have a good answer and so I ask you all:

1. What do you do in these situations?
2. How would you answer the question posed to me?
3. Finally, how do you explain the benefits of right doctrine vs. "90% cut-and-dry with the other 10% not being a big deal?

[SIGN]Only Our Lord decides who goes to Heaven, who goes to Hell. That is Teaching of The Catholic Church. [/SIGN]

 

[Sailka]

It amazes me to see a Catholic that is in denial. I suppose no children ever got touched also. So typical when some one reaches out to find their way, you try to deflate their experiences. I suggest you go to L.A., California and do your homework. They do not allow Catholic Family Conferences there. I suggest you stop and find out what is going on outside a few parishes. I suggest you talk to Apologest like Tim Staples. I know a priest who was persecuted for teaching the same as Rome. IT JUST AMAZES me how others can not share about false teachers out and about the Catholic Church. May-be if some one was supportive there would not be so many ex-Catholics. How can priest that teach false doctrine be in positions of power and to hell with the rest of us. Get your head out of the sand!

A few Bottom, Line points on “Pedophelia/Youth abuse”
The Catholic Church has had by Far the tiniest pedophile/youth abuse rate of Any Large organization in the USA. The top Rate was about 4-6% During The Problem time: Vatican II confusion time 1965-1980. The numbers are documented, From FULL, Detailed surveys by non-Catholic sources. The Rate for the Entire 1940’s - Current time frame are about 1-2 %.
Even Mental Health, Law Enforcement, Media rates are higher, in Fact.

The Protestant Minister/Youth minister rates were stated to be “About 30%” by the Top Treater of Youth abusers in Ministry, a Lutheran Minister/Psychologist interviewed on One Hour National NPR Callin-In: Kojo Knambe (sic) show late 2002, at height of Media misrepresented hype that year.

There is virtual Zero Youth abuse rate in Catholic Church since 2002. The Church has tougher monitoring/enforcement since, than does the FBI/Law enforcement.

The Church is Least likely long term to lead to clergy pedophilia because of the very Nature of The Church, Clergy, Which are 100% dedication to the Lord’s Work, 24/6 or 7, not money or self.

And the Catholic Church is by Far the fastest growing Church in the USA, for Years, according to the National Council of Churches National denominationl reports in February. Only 3 Churches in the USA grew in 2007: RCC by .57% to 68 Million, the Assembly of God and Seventh Day by tiny Percents. All others declined some, because of Secularization.
And the Catholic Church has never, in 2000 years, ever said Anyone has gone to Hell. Not for us to know

 

[racing59]

Racing, I am so sorry that your child was abused, and I don’t say that lightly. I have a very hard time (to put it mildly) being charitable about abusers.

I’m also sorry that you have met priests who were not teaching the real truth. Yes, they are out there, to the disgust of all faithful Catholics.

Yes, I have seen people (even on these forums) take “There is no salvation outside the Church” at no more than face value, and tell non-Catholic Christians that they are going to hell. They are wrong. They make me mad. They forget John 3:16, among other things. And they haven’t read the Catechism.

And yes, we have had Bishops who covered up abuse, and Bishops who do not follow Church teaching. They should know better. They may be paying for it in the future…

You have had a rough and awful time. Not only were your legitimate concerns for truth brushed off by the “can’t fight city hall” attitude, but your family was betrayed in the most awful, hurtful, damaging way possible. No wonder you feel like the Church left you.

But it wasn’t the Church herself, the one Jesus founded, that let you down so horribly. It was people, humans, who were false to the Church’s real teachings. Unfortunately, you were in a real snake pit full of them. (I wish Jesus would give us some “snake” repellent.) Unfortunately, the Church is for saving sinners, all of them, even the ones I’d rather squash like a bug.

Praying for healing for you and your family,

Ruthie

I was not going to post on this site any more buy got an e-mail for this thread. I want to thank you for your kind words and prayers. If there were more Catholics like you, especially in the clergy, my wife and I ( a convert to Catholic Church) would not of left. No one knows,but those who have been through these things, the hell my family has gone through. To be cast off by so many was incredible. I understand these things happen in other Christian Churches, but I guess we expected more out of the Catholic Church. I apologize to any other Catholics that are like you! I did not come here to rip apart Catholics, I have a problem with some of the leaders. It is the main reason my wife and I have a problem with churches. Thank you again for being caring and considerate, to bad there are not churches filled with people like you! God bless.

 

[BDawg]

66.6% of all denominations will go to hell.

 

[nebula]

66.6% of all denominations will go to hell.

Here’s a legal question for you: is that 66.6% of the people in the denominations or 66.6% of the denominations themselves are leading people to hell?

 

[racing59]

Here’s a legal question for you: is that 66.6% of the people in the denominations or 66.6% of the denominations themselves are leading people to hell?

I believe the 66.6% was intended as a joke. The 666, get it ?

 

[AshleyBelle]

Only God can know the state of a person’s soul…

But speaking for myself personally… I can only say one thing

THANKYOU LORD for PURGATORY!
I’m gonna be hanging out there for a goooood long while

 

[Sailka]

I believe the 66.6% was intended as a joke. The 666, get it ?

Guess who knew the cultural Meaning of the then 666? (666 had a cultural meaning, like lucky 7, unlucky 13 to us.) The Writers of the NT: Our Church Fathers: The Apostles and disciples. The Bible wasn’t written in English 30 years ago. Catholic Experts are THE Experts on the Bible. Proven, 2000 years, Because our Church Fathers wrote the Words, Of God.

 

[Sailka]

Only God can know the state of a person’s soul…

But speaking for myself personally… I can only say one thing

THANKYOU LORD for PURGATORY!
I’m gonna be hanging out there for a goooood long while

Only Martyrs for Our Lord are Said to go straight to Heaven.
Bishop Fulton Sheen had great line: 3 Big surprises when we get to Heaven: Who Got to Heaven, Who Didn’t, and that we got there. :extrahappy:

 

[justasking4]

Only God can know the state of a person’s soul…

But speaking for myself personally… I can only say one thing

THANKYOU LORD for PURGATORY!
I’m gonna be hanging out there for a goooood long while

Why would you say this in light of Colossians 2:13-14?

13 When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions,
14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

If we have been made alive with Him and He has forgiven us all our sins and cancelled the debt of sin why would there be any need for a purgatory?

If we are cleansed by His blood from all sin (I John 1:7) then why would you need the fires of purgatory to cleanse you?

This is what we need to thank God for and not purgatory.

 

[Ruthie]

As to 1 Jn 1:7, you are taking it out of context. The Blood cleanses us of all sin IF we walk in the light. Later (1 Jn 1:9), we are told that Jesus will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness, IF we confess our sins. He doesn’t say when He will cleanse us. It may not all happen before death; see 1 Cor 3:13-15.

I’m with AshleyBelle.

Thank you, Lord, for Purgatory!

Ruthie

 

[justasking4]

Ruthie;4411574]As to 1 Jn 1:7, you are taking it out of context. The Blood cleanses us of all sin IF we walk in the light.

It doesn’t say that. It is not putting a condition on being cleansed by the blood if we walk in the light. But lets assume for argument sake you are correct. This would mean we would be cleansed here and not in a purgatory.

Later (1 Jn 1:9), we are told that Jesus will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness, IF we confess our sins. He doesn’t say when He will cleanse us. It may not all happen before death; see 1 Cor 3:13-15.

No doubt the passage is to be taken in the present tense. We don’t have to wait until we die to be forgiven or cleansed. It is an ongoing expierence for a Christian who follows Christ.

Secondly, if you look at the passage in I Cor 3:13-15 you will find that what is being tested by fire is not the individual but his works and material. It is not about a soul being purified.

I’m with AshleyBelle.

Thank you, Lord, for Purgatory!

Ruthie

If purgatory is true then that means Colossians 2:13-14 and I John 1:7-9 is false.

 

[Sailka]

It doesn’t say that. It is not putting a condition on being cleansed by the blood if we walk in the light. But lets assume for argument sake you are correct. This would mean we would be cleansed here and not in a purgatory.

[SIGN]No doubt the passage is to be taken in the present tense. We don’t have to wait until we die to be forgiven or cleansed. It is an ongoing expierence for a Christian who follows Christ.[/SIGN]