To what degree are we being duped by God?

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Robert_Sock

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“You duped me, O LORD, and I let myself be duped;
you were too strong for me, and you triumphed.”
-Jeremiah 20:7

I believe deception is deep and affects the world as a whole. In previous threads I contended that it was Satan who deceived the world with deceit and lies, but the above passage of scripture seems to imply God also dupes us.

I believe we live in a ‘grand illusion,’ but whose responsible is a bit of a mystery! What impact does this have on our perception of reality? I believe there is a great discrepancy between reality and perceived reality! I believe this affects not just the secular world, but the religious as well.

We live in an upside-down world, which people perceive as being right-side-up. It’s a make-believe world, filled with deception!
 
How are we to demonstrate this though from reality. Reality is telling us a lie, how do we determine the truth or even that there is a lie?

If we can’t demonstrate it from reality why believe it?
 
Robert_Sock said:
“You duped me, O LORD, and I let myself be duped;
you were too strong for me, and you triumphed.”
-Jeremiah 20:7

I believe deception is deep and affects the world as a whole. In previous threads I contended that it was Satan who deceived the world with deceit and lies, but the above passage of scripture seems to imply God also dupes us.
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My interpretion is that Jeremiah’s crisis was made after his prophesies led to persection. The lord had promised to set things aright against the disobedient. Then Jeremiah is faced with the power of the priests officers. The verse you quote to me shows that in his struggle to find God in his situation outwardly, he is psychologically, inwardly, in the predicament of feeling as punished as the enemy he spoke against (will in the future on the arrival of the Messiah), hence experiences a kind of hybrid Stockholm syndrome. He addresses God, calling him a deceiver, to apparently show his reader what he thinks. It is the state of being honest with God and his future students. The deception is an inner emotional maneuver and a newer translation uses the word seduced. I think ‘deceived’ makes Jeremiah a kind of fool in common usage, whereas ‘seduced’ shows the inner crisis more clearly and brings Jeremiah as a person experiencing the lord, closer to the heart and more in a corporeal relationship with God and hence more similar to Jesus.
 
Robert_Sock said:
“You duped me, O LORD, and I let myself be duped;
you were too strong for me, and you triumphed.”
-Jeremiah 20:7

I believe deception is deep and affects the world as a whole. In previous threads I contended that it was Satan who deceived the world with deceit and lies, but the above passage of scripture seems to imply God also dupes us.

I believe we live in a ‘grand illusion,’ but whose responsible is a bit of a mystery! What impact does this have on our perception of reality? I believe there is a great discrepancy between reality and perceived reality! I believe this affects not just the secular world, but the religious as well.

We live in an upside-down world, which people perceive as being right-side-up. It’s a make-believe world, filled with deception!
Click to expand...
I think other translations say “seduced” rather than duped.

God is seducing us all the time.

God is THE Lover that desires all of us…
 
Robert_Sock said:
“You duped me, O LORD, and I let myself be duped;
you were too strong for me, and you triumphed.”
-Jeremiah 20:7
Click to expand...
The problem with the passage is that we are reading him being angry at God. That’s his human interpretation. But the fact is, Jeremiah duped himself.
I believe we live in a ‘grand illusion,’ but whose responsible is a bit of a mystery! What impact does this have on our perception of reality? I believe there is a great discrepancy between reality and perceived reality!
Click to expand...
Well, of course there is. The Kingdom of God is among us, isn’t it? Look around, do you see it?

We live in Time/Space, something made from nothing. This is the nothingness. Yet, throughout the ages mystics have been able to perceive that which we normally cannot. And tell us about it. But only a little, only relative to their own understanding because the Truth is possessed of myriad dimensions and words from brains are like trying to understand what a human being looks like from a shadow thrown on a sidewalk.

God tells us what we need to know and will reveal much more if we seek more.
 
Robert_Sock said:
“You duped me, O LORD, and I let myself be duped;
you were too strong for me, and you triumphed.”
-Jeremiah 20:7

I believe deception is deep and affects the world as a whole. In previous threads I contended that it was Satan who deceived the world with deceit and lies, but the above passage of scripture seems to imply God also dupes us.

I believe we live in a ‘grand illusion,’ but whose responsible is a bit of a mystery! What impact does this have on our perception of reality? I believe there is a great discrepancy between reality and perceived reality! I believe this affects not just the secular world, but the religious as well.

We live in an upside-down world, which people perceive as being right-side-up. It’s a make-believe world, filled with deception!
Click to expand...
God does not deceive, for deception is lie, and in God there is no lie, but only perfect Truth in its fullness.

I am sorry for such a view of the world as a delusion or deception. I perceive the world as a great mystery, but my trust in God’s divine providence forbids me from worrying or fearing deception, especially on matters of salvation, in which I have learned to attain to Church teachings as if they came from the mouth of Christ Himself.

As St. Augustine once wrote:
Man indeed, who wishes alone to bear testimony of himself, is arrogant, and not to be believed, because all men are frail and liable to be deceived; but light and truth itself can neither deceive nor be deceived.
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There is a lot of darkness around us, but in Christ, all is well.
 
R_C said:
God does not deceive, for deception is lie, and in God there is no lie, but only perfect Truth in its fullness.
Click to expand...
But God certainly allows Satan to deceive us. The passage that God duped Jeremiah caught my interest.
 
Check the Hebrew text … sometimes English translations leave something to be desired.

Check the Hebrew.
 
The one who really knows how to dupe is Satan, as Eve found to her chagrin.
 
jimmy said:
How are we to demonstrate this though from reality. Reality is telling us a lie, how do we determine the truth or even that there is a lie?

If we can’t demonstrate it from reality why believe it?
Click to expand...
I don’t believe it, but it sure sounds cool and I guess that’s why some people do.
 
Robert_Sock said:
…
I believe we live in a ‘grand illusion,’ but whose responsible is a bit of a mystery! What impact does this have on our perception of reality? I believe there is a great discrepancy between reality and perceived reality! I believe this affects not just the secular world, but the religious as well. …
Click to expand...
Are you having a Matrix moment?

I think it would be far safer to say that what we perceive as “reality” is infinitely limited compared with what IS.

By that I mean that we simply do not have the capicity to comprehend the greatness that surrounds us.

I believe that God does this for our sakes. To allow us to develop a sense of identity before being overwhelmed by so much more. Even more than this we are given the opportunity to connect with each other in a way we can never do while directly exposed to the beatific vision.

Yes there is a “great discrepency” between reality and perception since we are unable to perceive the invisible. But it is a mistake to call this a “dupe” or a deception. It *IS *reality… just not *all *of it.
 
Robert_Sock said:
“You duped me, O LORD, and I let myself be duped;
you were too strong for me, and you triumphed.”
-Jeremiah 20:7

I believe deception is deep and affects the world as a whole. In previous threads I contended that it was Satan who deceived the world with deceit and lies, but the above passage of scripture seems to imply God also dupes us.

I believe we live in a ‘grand illusion,’ but whose responsible is a bit of a mystery! What impact does this have on our perception of reality? I believe there is a great discrepancy between reality and perceived reality! I believe this affects not just the secular world, but the religious as well.

We live in an upside-down world, which people perceive as being right-side-up. It’s a make-believe world, filled with deception!
Click to expand...
If that is so (your last line), then what is one to do? I realize you are working from your own sense of reality. Life is what we make it. If you choose to live in fear of evil looking over your shoulder, that will be your reality. I don’t give evil as much credence as you do, but that perhaps is your reality.

Positive change comes from within. Because human beings are “individuals”, their perceptions will be different. Like snowflakes there are no two of us exactly alike in thought processes.

Is it really an upside down world, or is that your perception?
 
InspiritCarol said:
Are you having a Matrix moment?

I think it would be far safer to say that what we perceive as “reality” is infinitely limited compared with what IS.

By that I mean that we simply do not have the capicity to comprehend the greatness that surrounds us.

I believe that God does this for our sakes. To allow us to develop a sense of identity before being overwhelmed by so much more. Even more than this we are given the opportunity to connect with each other in a way we can never do while directly exposed to the beatific vision.

Yes there is a “great discrepency” between reality and perception since we are unable to perceive the invisible. But it is a mistake to call this a “dupe” or a deception. It *IS *reality… just not *all *of it.
Click to expand...
Some would say that the mathematical language by which we describe the universe is actually the foundation of it. In other words physical reality is the produce of mathematical forms. In that respect we are in a kind of matrix.
 
Julianna said:
If that is so (your last line), then what is one to do? I realize you are working from your own sense of reality. Life is what we make it. If you choose to live in fear of evil looking over your shoulder, that will be your reality. I don’t give evil as much credence as you do, but that perhaps is your reality.

Positive change comes from within. Because human beings are “individuals”, their perceptions will be different. Like snowflakes there are no two of us exactly alike in thought processes.

Is it really an upside down world, or is that your perception?
Click to expand...
Being religious, and paying strict attention to it, is smart; one need not bother with threads like this! I don’t know, but I just get a burning desire to express my deepest thoughts here on CAF.
 
Robert_Sock said:
Being religious, and paying strict attention to it, is smart; one need not bother with threads like this! I don’t know, but I just get a burning desire to express my deepest thoughts here on CAF.
Click to expand...
So when do express joy, jubilation, happiness, communing with nature and other human beings? Life is not all sack cloth and ashes.🤷
 
Linux said:
Some would say that the mathematical language by which we describe the universe is actually the foundation of it. In other words physical reality is the produce of mathematical forms. In that respect we are in a kind of matrix.
Click to expand...
Yah, I got that in college.
I loved linear algebra. 👍

But it discounts the imperceptible of which we have so many reported sightings … data points that go beyond being classified as “outliers”. Things that defy explanation do happen all the time. You don’t need to believe me, you only need look around.

…Afraid I’ve been shocked into that realization myself… I’d choose to deny it if I could.

(lol) ah … to re-enter the Matrix …
 
Then Pilate said to him, “So you are a king?” Jesus answered, “You say that I am a king. For this purpose I was born and for this purpose I have come into the world—to bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth listens to my voice.” John 18:37
 
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