Today you will be with me in paradise

[francisca]

I always think that heaven - hell is a spectrum of righteousness to unrighteousness (from the most holy to the least). The seven heavens, the names, etc does not matter so much.

Definition by church doctrines will not contradict one another if we think it this way. This is inline with church teaching that there is such thing as “layers of thruths”, thus holiness and non holiness has layers too, therefore heaven has layers as well. Some might call it purgatory, some call it limbo, some call it paradise, third heaven, etc. One thing that I know is that the highest heaven is God himself, and His presence can be strong or weak in our life (bring me near to You o God=bring me to the highest heaven o God).

One thing that is the most tricky about doctrine of heaven & hell is we often think that it concerns afterlife only. But scripture say that although physical death marks our ending of our earthly struggle, the true death and true life does not marked by physical death of our body. Instead James letter asserts there are “people who are dead even as they are alive in this world”, and that “people who believe in Jesus has risen from death to life”.

Spiritual teaching is not always easily understand by mere theories, definitons, and philosophicals, but rather by walking with God in a simple believe will bring us to a deeper understanding of what He has promised yet have never been seen.

 

[MJZ]

" The incident of the good thief is unique to Luke. The criminal who mocks Jesus is said to be blaspheming, a conclusion of Christian faith regarding Jesus’ true identity. The other criminal asks Jesus to remember him when he begins his reign. He means the definitive messianic kingdom that Jews expected at the end of the present age, but in Luke’s theology it also refers to the time of Jesus’ exaltation through resurrection and ascension. Jesus promises him a place in** ‘Paradise’* today*, because the death of Jesus is beginning the exodus (9:31) that will open a new way to salvation. “Paradise” goes back to the Persian term for an enclosed park and was used in the Greek Old Testament for the Garden of Eden in Genesis. Later Hebrew writings consider paradise an intermediate state of happiness of the righteous before the final judgment (4 Ezra 4:7; Enoch 42:3). This intermediate state seems to have been the meaning of paradise here.
The triumph of darkness (22:53) nows seems complete as Jesus nears death. Luke does not speak technically of an eclipse of the sun but of the failure of your kingdom." He replied to him, " Amen, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise."
- Colledgeville Commentary

 

[Richard_Hurtz]

## Unfortunately words are apt to be troublesome even so - football is played in the USA, the UK, and Australia, but an alien with no previous knowledge of them would not at once realise they were all called football.

Both the UK & the USA speak of “corn”, and both countries are talking about a food crop; but our corn is barley, while USA corn - IIRC - is maize.

Which is why I referenced the GREEK word which is identical in the three verses cited.

Or are you implying that the same GREEK word has different meanings based on context. I would agree that the same word MAY have different meanings in different contexts.

However, at this point that amounts to conjecture.

To prove that you have to demonstrate that the contexts are different and provide other examples of Koine Greek being used in the same fashion with same word having those different meanings in those different contexts. This is the basis of the Grammatico-Historical approach.

Peace to you,
Richard

 

[Fiat_Lumen]

fineca:

Fiat Lumen:

Paradise is the Heaven of the Sacred Humanity of Our Lord, or the Second Heaven, the Third Heaven is the Heaven of the Divinity. The First Paradise was lost at the fall of Adam, and will be restored on earth in fulfilment of the Prophesy of the Our Father.
QUOTE]

Eerrm…new paradise on earth? That’s JW theology - paradise will be restored in the New Heavenly Jerusalem, not on earth. Someone else here quoted 2.Cor.12 to show that Paradise is THIRD heaven not second…before this I didn’t know there were several heavens, why don’t we hear about this anywhere? Could start another thread on this issue…

Yes, the NT tells about the Third Heaven to which St. Paul was taken…There is nothing there for a human eye to see or a human ear to hear. Apocalipse also speaks of a vision of John where he saw Jesus on His Throne of Glory. Therefore these are two different heavens. The first Paradise on Earth as in Heaven is the prophesy of the Our Father, “Thy Kingdom come, Thy Will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven”. This is what is yet to come among the living.