This statement is incoherent. The church is made up of fallen men who have erred. No man in any church at any time can be said to be infallible. The church has sinned greatly in the inqusitions up to the present day scandals.
Because the annointing they received was from teachers appointed by Christ. Notice “which you received”. It was handed down to them through those appointed by Christ.
I believe you. I think that you are unable to comprehend the nature of the Church. It is a spiritual reality imparted from faith, for faith.
I think, if you remain in scripture eventually God will be able to reveal to you that this is a deficient concept of the Church. Unless and until that happens, you may not be able to restrain yourself from biting and gnawing at His body.
It is the teaching that is infallible, ja4. You have misunderstood what the Church teaches.
No, ja4, the church does not sin. People sin. The Holy Bride of Christ cannot sin because her Head is Christ and she is ensouled by the HS. It is the divine elements of the Church that preserve her purity.
you seem to repeatedly resist the teachings of the original Church (the only one, in the eyes of God…)… Did you know that demons during exorcisms repeatedly say things like that the Catholic Church needs to go back to the old ways… No Communion in hand… etc… They say that Hell is more terrible than anyone imagines and that God’s justice is “terrible”… If God cares about (what you Protestants proably think is a small thing - how to receive Communion properly)… think how he feels about other things… God is perfectly Holy… perfectly just…
The Real Presence is There when therre is no adoration also… just in a different way… but yes, the Real Presence of Christ abides in HIS Church and (tangibly) nowhere else…
If a teacher isn’t necessary, why would John write this epistle to these people in the first place? His purpose is clearly to teach people things.
Can you give me an example?
I don’t think so. If there is a contradictions in understanding about something then they both cannot be correct. One may be or both could be wrong but not both of them being correct. For example on this topic. A Christian is either saved always OSAS or he is not as the catholic position states. It has to be one of the other.
How would we know if a teacher is taught correctly? What would be necessary for her to have the correct understanding?
If you read the gospels and Acts you will find that the testimony of demons is always rejected. Jesus always told them to be silent and did not want any support from them. We need to follow this example even in a exorcism.
So you cannot expierence the presence of Christ in other places without the Euchartist?
Certainly in this parable the son does make a decision to return to his father’s house, but in the two companion parables, (Luke 15:4-10) where a man’s sheep wanders away and a woman loses her coin, the character representing God does all the work. The coin does not decide to return to the woman, nor does the sheep decide to return to the shepherd. The initiative in these parables is completely God’s.
just because God doesn’t lose anything that is His… (though obstinancy in sin will separate one from God)… doesn’t mean that there isn’t a purification process needed before entering into intimacy with God (Heaven)… I believe anyone who loves God, no matter what kind of sins he has on his soul, if he were to die, he would go to Heaven… but he wouldn’t straight to Heaven… He would have to get cleaned up… and the bible is full of passages about the necessity of such a purification… (etc).
If i can speak my mind without seeming rude (cause i am not trying to be rude…)… This passage, in and of itself, does not prove that this is the ONLY way to deal with the “testimony of demons” demons must obey God and when they speak in an exorcism, it is because God allows it, because God is trying to tell us something… and obviously, when God tries to tell us something (and allows such phenomenon in order to do so) it behooves us to listen…
No.
No need to apologize to me. I know people feel very passionate about these things and we all can get emotional about these things. I also find this way of communication to be a double edge sword. Its great for quick communication across the world and for copying articles etc. Its limits are in understanding exactly what people mean in their contexts. I get into more trouble assuming things rather than seeking to understand and clarify…anyway–God bless…If i can speak my mind without seeming rude (cause i am not trying to be rude…)… This passage, in and of itself, does not prove that this is the ONLY way to deal with the “testimony of demons” demons must obey God and when they speak in an exorcism, it is because God allows it, because God is trying to tell us something… and obviously, when God tries to tell us something (and allows such phenomenon in order to do so) it behooves us to listen…
No.
that’s the simple answer. God can be found in solitude and nature… and getting away from everything (everyone)… but Jesus Christ (who is God) and what he has to say to us about our lives (relationships, etc) can really only be found in the Real Presence… I have to say that i also experience His Presence while reading the Bible… and praying the rosary… However there is something very unique and powerful about the Real Presence… hard to put into words… Ever been there?
God bless…
(Also: I apologize if i have ever said anything to you that wasn’t Christian-sounding- I don’t recall if it was you or someone else but one time recently i was very impatient because i thought you were refusing to listen and/or really didn’t want to hear the Catholic position… but i got to thinking about it later and realized that i should not have thought such a thing… and even if that was true… that you weren’t sincere… I shouldn’t have lost my patience… So anyway… my only excuse is i am human… :hypno: )
Pretty good excuse, huh??
Anyway… have a good one…
well, that’s big of you… Seriously… saying you don’t need an apology and that you realize people are passionate about “things”…No need to apologize to me. I know people feel very passionate about these things and we all can get emotional about these things. I also find this way of communication to be a double edge sword. Its great for quick communication across the world and for copying articles etc. Its limits are in understanding exactly what people mean in their contexts. I get into more trouble assuming things rather than seeking to understand and clarify…anyway–God bless…
No, I’m not talking about purgatory at all. I’m talking about whether people whom God has saved will go to hell. I don’t think that this parable proves that they do. Do you?
The point is that if there were a similar parable in which the son decided to stay with the pigs instead of coming home, that would be evidence that we could lose our salvation. But there is no such parable in the Bible.Also, i don’t understand the last sentence… about the prodigal son not returning
well, you are operating from a Protestant perspective to evne insinuate tha every truth can be found in the bible… As you know (probably) Catholics do not subscribe to this notion…
)… :doh2: i never said it said that someone “saved” will go to Hell… I believe the passage shows that salvation is an ongoing thing… Otherswise, why would it say we are being “built”… as though to say we are not completed yet…
I don’t either, and I don’t think I insinuated it.
I don’t think every truth is in the Bible, if OSAS weren’t in the Bible, then I would say losing salvation might be true, though it’s certainly not in the Bible. Are you trying to prove losing salvation from the Bible or not?
OK
I’m not sure what you mean by “Christian truth”, is there such a thing as unchristian truth?
Well if today’s are any indication, I would suspect that many of these passages don’t deal with OSAS at all.
I kind of doubt that there are more Bible-doubting Baptists than Catholics. Just judging from these forums & the study notes in my NAB I’d say that doubting the historicity of Genesis, the signatures of the Epistles, &c., is much more common among Catholics.
So nobody is saved until they get to heaven? What about all the Scripture verses that say we are saved? For example I Corinthians I:18:
See post #2.
Some translations of that verse say “those who are saved,” and some say “those who are being saved.”
Whoops. I should have looked at the Greek on that before I posted. There are of course other verses which say we are saved:Some translations of that verse say “those who are saved,” and some say “those who are being saved.”
What does the original Greek say? It uses the present passive participle. Participles indicate ongoing action. That means the saving isn’t a done deal. We’re not saved yet, but God is always trying to help us along.
even when the demons called Jesus the HOly One of God???
where in the Bible does it say that once you are saved, you are always saved??