Told we must stand after the Agnus Dei

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Therese12

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I know this has been mentioned many times before, but I’m never satisfied with the answers since they still seem to vary. Our parish was recently told that we now must stand after the Agnus Dei until everyone has received Communion. I have found plenty of opinions on both sides, but am still not convinced that I must stand. The article from Francis Cardinal Arinze on Kneeling in the Mass states that we still have the right to kneel; however, we are being told that we cannot listen to him. This has been a confusing and difficult situation for me, and many others, because Our Lord is truly present at that time. It seems disrespectful, and definitely lacking humility, to stand there when we say, “I am not worthy…”, and after we’ve received Him. Even Mary knelt when the Angel Gabriel came to her. How is it that we should stand at such a profound moment in our lives?! Our priest is even taking individuals aside to tell them not to kneel. I am waiting for the moment this happens to me. I’ve been literally in tears over this, and would like to know once and for all if I have the right to do so. We’ve lost humility. We’ve lost the Faith. We’ve lost the belief in the Real Presence. Is this really the time to stop kneeling to show it?
 
Therese12 said:
We’ve lost humility. We’ve lost the Faith. We’ve lost the belief in the Real Presence. Is this really the time to stop kneeling to show it?
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We have not lost humility, faith, or belief in the Real Presence. Do what you believe is correct or find another parish that has what you need.
 
They’ve lost respect and belief at our parish we might have some pews that doesn’t have kneelers but that doesn’t stop the people of God from kneeling

Do what is right not what others tell you
 
I don’t understand. The default position is kneeling but you can stand if kneeling is not suitable - for health reason or perhaps rough floor surface. Even in such situation, those who want to kneel would proceed to kneel nevertheless.

Yes, there were times when the priest said that we can stand especially in mass done outside the church for reasons as above.
 
Posture has become a hot button issue in some places (mostly in the USA). The classical liturgy has minimal instruction on this issue, because it valued and reflected the sensus fidelium and the organic development of popular posture. Only in recent years has there been an obsession in some locales about this matter, usually accompanied by verbiage about the alleged necessity of “common posture”, etc., etc. Normally what this code language means is, kneeling is bad and the so-called Easter people must stand, etc., etc. Strangely, those same people who decry the pre-Vatican II church for alleged “rigidity” fail to appreciate the truly hyper rigidity they display in demanding that everyone do exactly the same thing at all times.
 
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If you are “never satisfied with the answers” then why are you posting your question here? You know you will always receive a variety of answers on this message board.

To me it seems simply that if you want to kneel after the Agnus Dei then find a parish where they do so.

You seem upset and please don’t lose your Faith over this issue. Some don’t believe in the real presence I agree, but I don’t believe all Catholics have lost the Faith.

We can pray and be respectful standing, and kneeling. I know the kneeling is very important to some people and my grandfather said he would kneel until the day he died after the Agneis Dei which he did.

I am more flexible and don’t mind standing but it’s important to you so find a parish where the views you have fit and you can kneel all you want at the appropriate times.

Sorry you are feeling discouraged. May God lift your discouragement and remember there are still many faithful Catholics and we are blessed to be in the Church Jesus himself founded.

God Bless.
 
According to the norms of the Church, you can do what you wish then.
Frankly, I would just ignore such instructions.
One time the priest said during mass that everyone should stand for the eucharistic prayer. However, I kneeled then, since I knew this differed from the official norms of the Church… It was a parish I went to when I was visiting my mother in another city. The next time I went to that parish again several months later, everyone was keeling again. I presume that the priest’s order to stand there got enough serious flak or nonobedience that they dropped their idea of standing during the eucharistic prayer.
 
You don’t say whether this instruction comes from your priest, or from the bishop. The General Instruction of the Roman Missal (#43) says (bolding mine):
"The faithful kneel after the Agnus Dei (Lamb of God) unless the Diocesan Bishop determines otherwise.
 
And Rome has made it abundantly clear that those who maintain the traditional posture of kneeling are not to be considered “disobedient” (a favorite word of liturgical progressives), and that the intention of the rubrics is not to regulate posture rigidly (a favorite word of the current Holy Father).
 
Kneeling seems to be a lost art for some Catholics.
Many who come in the church rarely genuflect before they enter a pew or when they pass in front of the cross.
Other who kneel during the mass do not kneel properly, but kind of prop part of their posterior on the pew seat.
Sloth is one of the Ten Commandments. People should not be too lazy to act properly in Church.
 
It’s true, as you say, that kneeling is an excellent way of showing humility and reverence for the Blessed Sacrament. So it should be our normal practice to kneel at the traditional times during Mass. But there are always times when an exception should be made to your normal practice if there’s a good reason.

Jesus showed this when he accepted an invitation to attend a feast. (Lk 5:29-32) He didn’t do this out of love for fine food. Jesus, after all, lived an extraordinarily holy and austere life, even completing a 40-day fast in the desert. But He made an exception to his normal practice of austerity and mortification for two good reasons. First, the virtue of charity required an exception because He had an opportunity to minister to sinners at the feast. Second, the virtue of humility required it because He didn’t want to draw attention to his extraordinary spiritual life or leave the impression that He was beyond associating with the common people of his day.

In your case, the virtue of obedience requires an exception to your normal practice of kneeling.

Plus, it’s not always necessary in God’s eyes to have the external signs of humility, so long as you have the right dispositions in your heart. In the Book of Esther, Queen Esther is required by her position as queen to wear a crown while in public. But she prays: “Thou knowest my necessity, that I abominate the sign of my pride and glory, which is upon my head in the days of my public appearance, and detest it as a menstruous rag, and wear it not in the days of my silence.” (Est 14:16, DRV) This was a very acceptable prayer to God because in her heart she was completely detached from the crown. God reads the heart.

Thus after the Agnus Dei you might pray: “Lord, You know all things and therefore know that I recognize your Real Presence in the Blessed Sacrament of the Altar. And, if it were appropriate at this time, I would not only kneel but prostrate myself on the very dust of the earth in recognition of this fact. But because your priest, who is your representative, has asked that we remain standing, I will do so rather than put on a show of disobedience for all to see.”

I think the the Lord will find this perfectly acceptable because He will see that you are not only kneeling in your heart but being obedient to your pastor.
 
Therese12 said:
Our parish was recently told that we now must stand after the Agnus Dei until everyone has received Communion.
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Kneeling after the Agnus Dei is not a universal rurbric. The universal rubric is to stand. The US rubric is to kneel unless the diocesan bishop determines otherwise. It is within your bishop’s authority to make the decision he made, and you should follow what he has declared just as you would follow any other rubric in the GIRM. Of course you “can” continue to kneel, but if you are doing it in protest of what you view as some sort of liturgical abuse, you are off base because it is NOT.
 
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Therese12 said:
Our parish was recently told that we now must stand after the Agnus Dei until everyone has received Communion.
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Umm, you realize that the US Missal is different from elsewhere in the world on the issue of when to kneel? Even before the OF Mass was officially promulgated, in Quebec my memory is that we would stand through the Agnus Dei but kneel after receiving communion. And that is still the custom to this day.

In Canada, and most of the world, we only kneel through the Consecration and we rise at the Mystery of the Faith. The US is the exception to the rule, not the standard. We can always tell at the abbey when we have a large group of American visitors, as the kneelers come crashing to the floor after the Sanctus.
YourNameHere said:
Kneeling seems to be a lost art for some Catholics.
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It might be because as a group, Catholics are ageing. I’m 60 and have osteoarthritis in my spine. While I still can and do kneel, it is increasingly painful for me to do so and I can foresee the day when I will no longer be able to, especially if I don’t have something to grab to help propel myself back up.
1ke said:
Kneeling after the Agnus Dei is not a universal rurbric. The universal rubric is to stand. The US rubric is to kneel unless the diocesan bishop determines otherwise. It is within your bishop’s authority to make the decision he made, and you should follow what he has declared just as you would follow any other rubric in the GIRM. Of course you “can” continue to kneel, but if you are doing it in protest of what you view as some sort of liturgical abuse, you are off base because it is NOT.
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This is exactly right.
 
Therese12 said:
would like to know once and for all if I have the right to do so
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Regarding the posture after the Agnus Dei, the GIRM prescribes that we follow what the bishop has prescribed if he has done so, in absence of the bishop prescribing it would fall to the GIRM rubric. Since your bishop has prescribed standing, you should stand.

You can stand, sit, or kneel after communion:

Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments

5 June 2003

Prot. n. 855/03/L

Dubium: In many places, the faithful are accustomed to kneeling or sitting in personal prayer upon returning to their places after having individually received Holy Communion during Mass. Is it the intention of the Missale Romanum, editio typica tertia, to forbid this practice?

Responsum: Negative, et ad mentem. The mens is that the prescription of the Institutio Generalis Missalis Romani, no. 43, is intended, on one hand, to ensure within broad limits a certain uniformity of posture within the congregation for the various parts of the celebration of the Holy Mass, and on the other, to not regulate posture rigidly in such a way that those who wish to kneel or sit would no longer be free.

Francis Cardinal Arinze
Prefect
 
You absolutely do have the right to kneel to receive communion. I don’t know what right you have to kneel after the Agnus Dei. Personally my opinion on kneeling after the Agnus Dei has changed. We do it at my parish. I think I prefer it, but I am not as strong in my preference as I was. Standing is a respectful posture too. I understand your concern about lack of respect, but there are far worse issues.
YourNameHere said:
Kneeling seems to be a lost art for some Catholics. Many who come in the church rarely genuflect before they enter a pew or when they pass in front of the cross. Other who kneel during the mass do not kneel properly, but kind of prop part of their posterior on the pew seat.
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Being tall I find the kneeler at my parish painful and difficult to use. They are the narrow kind. The placement of them makes them difficult to use. I actually prefer, and have no problems, kneeling on the floor. If no one else is beside me I kneel in the floor. If someone is they’ll want the kneeler. If they use it then I don’t kneel properly. It isn’t disrespectful or lazy. It is that I can’t properly kneel on the knellers and they cause knee pain for me.
 
This. Your Bishop has for some reason determined otherwise. Be humble and obedient to your Bishop.
 
Rome has made quite, quite clear that those who choose to kneel…whatever the local bishop may have decreed for their territory…are not to be considered “disobedient.”
 
Where does it say her Bishop made standing the rubric? She just said her parish priest?

The parish in my boundary the people stand, I always kneel(with some others) because thats what the GIRM says and the Bishop hasn’t changed that from what I know. I have been wanting to ask the pastor why the people stand since we moved into the parish 2 years ago. It’s funny though at the earliest Sunday Mass all the people kneel… I feel like some of the things they do at the parish is like we are lab rats in testing. I am not hot on it.
 
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