Tongues during Holy Mass - Liturgical Abuse?

[Joysong]

Why would you ignore any inspiration that the Holy Spirit chose to bestow upon you? If he came to me. I think I would do whatever he wanted me to do.

Hi Palmas,

I cannot speak for Gusmano or anyone else, but there are times when the person feels unsure that the inspiration was from God, such as when one is called to step out in faith and pray for healing. This happened to Sister Briege McKenna, perhaps due to her humility or her absolute inexperience in this type of ministry. In her book, she explains how God helped her overcome this anxiety by sending other servants speaking prophecy to convict her that it was God’s will for her to begin.

We see this also in the lives of the saints. In their humility, they sometimes held back, thinking they were unprofitable servants, most notably when what God asks is an unusual task. Refer back a few posts to the incident with St. Peter and the household of Cornelius. God sent the vision to Peter three times, for it was not something he was permitted to do – i.e., go to a Gentile. His previous direction from Jesus was to go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Sorry for thread drift here, everyone.

Carole

 

[palmas85]

Joysong:

Hi Palmas,

I cannot speak for Gusmano or anyone else, but there are times when the person feels unsure that the inspiration was from God, such as when one is called to step out in faith and pray for healing. This happened to Sister Briege McKenna, perhaps due to her humility or her absolute inexperience in this type of ministry. In her book, she explains how God helped her overcome this anxiety by sending other servants speaking prophecy to convict her that it was God’s will for her to begin.

We see this also in the lives of the saints. In their humility, they sometimes held back, thinking they were unprofitable servants, most notably when what God asks is an unusual task. Refer back a few posts to the incident with St. Peter and the household of Cornelius. God sent the vision to Peter three times, for it was not something he was permitted to do – i.e., go to a Gentile. His previous direction from Jesus was to go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Sorry for thread drift here, everyone.

Carole

Actually, I’m glad you posted this. I have long held that a lot of what appears be Holy Spirit driven is in reality either ones own ego or manipulation by other forces. To hear both Worm and yourself admit that possibility however obliquely, is refreshing. I am very pleased that you would not act if you were not sure the inspiration came from the Holy Spirit.

Has this happened to you ? Would you say that other Charismatics also admit the possibility that not all manifestations are real?.

Also, since many iif not most of the manisfestations these days seem to be of the speaking in tongues variety, would you think it possible that the Holy Spirit is trying to effect a change in the Mass itself? It does appear that much of the speaking in tongues occurs during Mass.

 

[Joysong]

Sunday Blessings, Palmas,

I am very pleased that you would not act if you were not sure the inspiration came from the Holy Spirit. Has this happened to you ? Would you say that other Charismatics also admit the possibility that not all manifestations are real?.

You probably remember the scripture that we must always test the spirit to see if it is from God. That is not an easy process to learn, and I have spent years, personally, trying to do this. So did holy St. Ignatius of Loyola. I am grateful his long struggles in discernment were transmitted to us as his precious teachings. (I have a thread on a few of his principles in “Spirituality.”)

Some of the charismatics I have met are among the most sincere, devout, commited Catholics I know. Others are green behind the ears, sometimes proud, sometimes mistaken, but they are part of me in the Body of Christ, and I cannot disown them because they are immature. God has timetables of growth, and we are all on different steps. A tiny branch, withered, storm-battered, is still as much a part of the tree as the mighty branch that supports many smaller shoots. This is why I say, we cannot judge, for if they belong to God, and were baptized into His Spirit, we offend God by despising any of His little ones.

Also, since many if not most of the manifestations these days seem to be of the speaking in tongues variety, would you think it possible that the Holy Spirit is trying to effect a change in the Mass itself? It does appear that much of the speaking in tongues occurs during Mass.

That is because tongues are so foreign to the majority who hear them, and therefore seem so prominent. Yet there are other charisms that are probably more widely used, but the faithful do not recognize them as such because of their scanty education. Unless the average Catholic in the pew has studied this, they would not know when one of these gifts is being manifested.

For example, St. Paul advises us to strive after the spiritual gifts, but “especially that you may prophesy!” (1 Cor. 14:1-3) “For he who prophesies speaks to men for edification and encouragement and consolation.” Our Lord frequently inspires His servants with this gift on this very forum, for I have seen hundreds of wonderful posts where edification and encouragement are dispensed, “giving others their ration of food in due time.” Many would not recognize it as prophecy, though, because often their concept of prophecy is foretelling the future. Not at all!

So far, have not yet seen anyone writing here in tongues. http://forum.catholic.com/images/smilies/ani/rotfl.gif

As to your question about the Holy Spirit effecting a change in the Mass … I like this paragraph from the CCC:

1098 The assembly should *prepare *itself to encounter its Lord and to become “a people well disposed.” The preparation of hearts is the joint work of the Holy Spirit and the assembly, especially of its ministers. The grace of the Holy Spirit seeks to awaken faith, conversion of heart, and adherence to the Father’s will. These dispositions are the precondition both for the reception of other graces conferred in the celebration itself and the fruits of new life which the celebration is intended to produce afterward.

What I believe is the general disposition of hearts at a charismatic liturgy is one of profound praise within those who are authentically prepared to worship. Even should a ruling come about that would force silence of their praise to God outwardly in tongues, they will still praise Him inwardly, with deep unction and worship. So God still sees their heart, either way. Why this bothers some people is hard for me to understand, honestly. Even though I do not speak in tongues, I respect all outward honor and praise to God, and it does not infringe on my ability to do likewise. There are certainly numerous moments within Mass that tongues are not used, which affords the assembly personal prayer time.

I’m thinking for the moment of the prophet Balaam, who was hired to curse the Israelites, but he could not do so, even after three attempts, saying, “How can I curse whom God has not cursed?” (Num. 23:8) So, my friend, neither can I be upset with charismatics.

I hope this was somewhat helpful for you.

Carole

 

[spello]

Enter His courts with thanksgiving in your hearts, enter His courts with Praise. Praise and the true knowledge and Love of God are given to us through the Holy Spirit. When the Spirit comes He will lead and guide you in all truth. To those who are frozen come in from the cold and let the Love of God enfold you

 

[palmas85]

Joysong:

Sunday Blessings, Palmas,

You probably remember the scripture that we must always test the spirit to see if it is from God. That is not an easy process to learn, and I have spent years, personally, trying to do this. So did holy St. Ignatius of Loyola. I am grateful his long struggles in discernment were transmitted to us as his precious teachings. (I have a thread on a few of his principles in “Spirituality.”)

Some of the charismatics I have met are among the most sincere, devout, commited Catholics I know. Others are green behind the ears, sometimes proud, sometimes mistaken, but they are part of me in the Body of Christ, and I cannot disown them because they are immature. God has timetables of growth, and we are all on different steps. A tiny branch, withered, storm-battered, is still as much a part of the tree as the mighty branch that supports many smaller shoots. This is why I say, we cannot judge, for if they belong to God, and were baptized into His Spirit, we offend God by despising any of His little ones.

That is because tongues are so foreign to the majority who hear them, and therefore seem so prominent. Yet there are other charisms that are probably more widely used, but the faithful do not recognize them as such because of their scanty education. Unless the average Catholic in the pew has studied this, they would not know when one of these gifts is being manifested.

For example, St. Paul advises us to strive after the spiritual gifts, but “especially that you may prophesy!” (1 Cor. 14:1-3) “For he who prophesies speaks to men for edification and encouragement and consolation.” Our Lord frequently inspires His servants with this gift on this very forum, for I have seen hundreds of wonderful posts where edification and encouragement are dispensed, “giving others their ration of food in due time.” Many would not recognize it as prophecy, though, because often their concept of prophecy is foretelling the future. Not at all!

What I believe is the general disposition of hearts at a charismatic liturgy is one of profound praise within those who are authentically prepared to worship. Even should a ruling come about that would force silence of their praise to God outwardly in tongues, they will still praise Him inwardly, with deep unction and worship. So God still sees their heart, either way. Why this bothers some people is hard for me to understand, honestly. Even though I do not speak in tongues, I respect all outward honor and praise to God, and it does not infringe on my ability to do likewise. There are certainly numerous moments within Mass that tongues are not used, which affords the assembly personal prayer time.

I’m thinking for the moment of the prophet Balaam, who was hired to curse the Israelites, but he could not do so, even after three attempts, saying, “How can I curse whom God has not cursed?” (Num. 23:8) So, my friend, neither can I be upset with charismatics.

I hope this was somewhat helpful for you.

Carole

Very well written response but it did not answer the question that I asked, mainly, do Charismatics recognize and admit that some of their manifestations of the Holy Spirit are not genuine? It was a fairly simple and straightforward question. It had nothing to do with immaturity or being inexperienced.

Also, I have stated before I personally believe that proven manifestations of lets say prophecy and healing are genuine, because it would be next to impossible to fabricate them. However since speaking intonguess is at best a subjective experience, it does seem much more open to abuse then the other charisms.

 

[Joysong]

Geesh, Palmas,

I never thought to ask any of them, “Do you think your experiences are genuine?” And if I were to ask them, they would probably think they are true, if they were babes in the Spirit, or under delusion. But we are not their Savior, and the job of conviction belongs to the Holy Spirit. True, He may inspire one of us to speak to them, but never in public to embarrass anyone, and always with perfect timing. He then accompanies our words, if He is the one who inspires us.

Occasionally I have encounted someone who may try to impart a tongues teaching on another who is not moved by the Holy Spirit to pray in this manner, and a wise person would probably just say thank you and dismiss it as proselytizing.

One thing that is almost impossible to feign is true facial joy. I have seen some of these people in praise of God, and just like those who saw Moses’ face and could not look at him, they have a beautiful, edifying countenance that speaks to the onlooker of what is taking place in their hearts.

As I mentioned previously, those who are more advanced in spirituality will have the ability to discern what is going on. If they see something not genuine, their spirit of charity says, “there but for God’s grace go I.”

This has been most interesting to chat with you, Palmas.

Carole

 

[Joysong]

Dear Spello,

Enter His courts with thanksgiving in your hearts, enter His courts with Praise.
**
I will confirm your beautiful words as coming from the Lord, for I have been thinking of that identical psalm this afternoon, wondering whether or not to say anything.

Carole

 

[gusano]

palmas85:

Why would you ignore any inspiration that the Holy Spirit chose to bestow upon you? If he came to me. I think I would do whatever he wanted me to do.

In theory, I think I would too.
I have been prompted by the Holy Spirit to speak and do as he prompted…But I was too concerned what others may think.
so I resisted, tried to ignore,
But He would not let go…finally He won.

Not persuaded to quote scripture hermanito, I merely finished the quote you started, putting in the part that you neglected or overlooked.

Well, … that leaves all the rest of Acts…Now someone else may step in and add what you left out ! then what ?

I don’t dislike scripture, just people who try to manipulate it to their own ends. Scripture is wonderful, and when used properly, can open avenues and vistas unparalled.

…I think The Gift of Tongues is being bounced to-and-fro like a tennis ball on this thread,
to manipulate it to “their / our” own ends;
(A)… To express adoration and worship to The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
(B)… To silence (A) because it embarrasses the silencers.

I believe that you would not fake it hermanito, but apparently the Church feels that there are those who might, and so do I. I just said that prophecy and healing would a lot harder to fake than talking in tongues. Wouldn’t you agree?

(1)…are you thinking that, you are thinking and speaking for the church?
(2)…It would not be easy to fake those who have The Gift of Discernment. Those who love the Truth.

In any event I still maintain that the proper place for tongue talking would be in a prayer meeting or at home. Not during the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

I just rertuned from a very beautiful Mass at the Cathedral where I worshiped God with My Prayer Language at various times during the Liturgy.
I didn’t sense anything at all “improper” .
I also do it at Home, at Prayer meetings…and when I make it to Heaven I will probably do it with absolutely no restraint.
Why ? Because God is so AWESOME He deserves as much adoration and worship as I can scrape from this empty vessel.
Have you ever noticed what is going on **in your soul **during the Holy Sacrifice of The Mass ?

We are practicing here.

gusano

 

[Joysong]

Dear Palmas,

It may be that this excerpt from Pope John Paul will be what you were looking for:

How is it possible to safeguard and guarantee a charism’s authenticity? It is essential in this regard that every movement submit to the discernment of the competent ecclesiastical authority. For this reason no charism can dispense with reference and submission to the pastors of the Church. The Council wrote in clear words “Those who have charge over the Church should judge the genuineness and proper use of these gifts, through their office not indeed to extinguish the Spirit but to test all things and hold fast to what is good.” This is the necessary guarantee that you are taking the right road.

In the confusion that reigns in the world today, it is so easy to err, to give in to illusions. May this element of trusting obedience to the Bishops, the successors of the Apostles, in communion with the Successor of Peter never be lacking in the Christian formation provided by your movements! You know the criteria for the ecclesiality of lay associations found in the Apostolic Exhortation “Christifideles Laici”. I ask you always to adhere to them with generosity and humility, bringing your experiences to the local churches and parishes, while always remaining in communion with the pastors and attentive to their direction.

ccr.org.uk/champion.htm

My trust in the Church pastors and bishops gives me confidence that during the thirty years or more of this worldwide movement, our clergy have discussed the charisms in this movement at length with one another. Nothing has come forth indicating that tongues are illusory, illicit, or anything that should be prevented in a liturgy.

I would think that pastors have guidelines that are not formulated in an official document, but are well understood among them from these meetings. Maybe that is the very reason the participants in these liturgies only pray in tongues during one or two parts of the mass. Could it be they were instructed? I don’t really know, since I am not a regular worshipper at these celebrations, and I never asked anyone, whether pastor or lay person.

This is why I keep pointing us all to go beyond ourselves and find out what the Church has approved or disapproved. Absence any real knowledge other than our own gut feeling, we have no business taking offense about it until we learn the truth.

In the final analysis, that gut feeling may be a movement from the Lord, either to begin work to have the guidelines explained in a formal document, or to learn that we are mistaken in our judgment.

 

[gusano]

Joysong:

Sunday Blessings, Palmas,
… … …
I’m thinking for the moment of the prophet Balaam, who was hired to curse the Israelites, but he could not do so, even after three attempts, saying, “How can I curse whom God has not cursed?” (Num. 23:8) So, my friend, neither can I be upset with charismatics.

I hope this was somewhat helpful for you.

Carole

Hi Carole,
I don’t know where the button is that summons that little character who rolls on the floor laughing !
Help!

All I can say is this is too funny!
Your post is a manifestation that The Living God is present and active in this thread.
Let us treat this subject with deep respect
THE LITURGY and
HOW WE WORSHIP.

only my opinion.

gusano

 

[Joysong]

Hi Gusano,

Where is the laughing smilie? When you begin to compose your reply, look above the white sheet where you are typing. The first row shows a smilie face. Press the black arrow and scroll down until you find a smilie that expresses your sentiments. After it is highlighted, press your enter key, and it will appear in your document.

Thanks so much for your kind words. We always do well to speak highly of the liturgy, for it is a work of the Trinity.


Carole

 

[spello]

My Soul proclaims the greatness of the Lord and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior for He who is mighty has done great things and Holy is His Name.The Lord is alive. After all The Holy Spirit is the Lord the Giver of Life. Remember what Mary said"I am the handmaid of the Lord be it done unto me according to your word"…Tongues are low on the list of charismatic gifts, but certainly listed by Paul as one of the gifts given for the building up of the Body of Christ. One Bread One Body One Lord of All…Lets ask this? Where have all the gifts gone?

 

[palmas85]

gusano:

In theory, I think I would too.
I have been prompted by the Holy Spirit to speak and do as he prompted…But I was too concerned what others may think.
so I resisted, tried to ignore,
But He would not let go…finally He won.

(1)…are you thinking that, you are thinking and speaking for the church?
(2)…It would not be easy to fake those who have The Gift of Discernment. Those who love the Truth.

I just rertuned from a very beautiful Mass at the Cathedral where I worshiped God with My Prayer Language at various times during the Liturgy.
I didn’t sense anything at all “improper” .
I also do it at Home, at Prayer meetings…and when I make it to Heaven I will probably do it with absolutely no restraint.
Why ? Because God is so AWESOME He deserves as much adoration and worship as I can scrape from this empty vessel.
Have you ever noticed what is going on **in your soul **during the Holy Sacrifice of The Mass ?

We are practicing here.

gusano

In response to your question #1 I provide the following:

1. Charisms are to be accepted with gratitude by the person who receives them, and by all members of the Church as well. They are a wonderfully rich grace for the apostolic vitality and for the holiness of the entire Body of Christ, provided they really are genuine gifts of the Holy Spirit and are used in full conformity with authentic promptings of this same Spirit; that is, in keeping with charity, the true measure of all charisms.

These are not my words Hermanito, these are the words of the church. Focus on the second sentence please, especially the words:
PROVIDED THEY REALLY ARE GENUINE GIFTS OF THE HOLY SPIRIT AND ARE USED IN FULL CONFORMITY WITH AUTHENTIC PROMPTINGS OF THIS SAME SPIRIT.

If the Church admits the possibility of some of these gifts not being genuine, then I would have to do the same thing. To follow any path blindly is not what the Church teaches wants or requires.

In response to your question #2 I will say only that Satan is the Father of lies, and can fake anything and everything he wants. It is said that he often comes clothed as an angel of light.

I am not in any way saying that all Charismatics are influenced by Satan!!! Not at all. I believe that the Charismatic movement is full of people who are desperately seeking truth and the boundless joys of Gods love and salvation. Many and maybe even most of the Charisms experienced by Charismatics are genuine, BUT…

that being said, I can see that Satan would relish the chance to gather a few more souls in this fashion, sending false visions , prophecies, maybe a few healings and yes even false tongues, to those who so desperately want them and believe them all to be genuine. I can also see Satan sending his own into the meetings, to influence them and direct the faithful down the wrong path. I know that belief in the evil one is waning and considered old fashioned and maybe evn quaint. He is neither, hermanito, and he preys upon the faithful daily, seeking the ruin and destruction of souls. And I truly believe that nothing would give him more satisfaction and joy then to take a few souls who truly believe they are doing the will of the Spirit and send them out to do his bidding.

I am comforted by several posts that have been on this thread. attesting that discernment is a difficult thing to do and not lightly undertaken. I pray that is the accepted policy in force and not lip service.

I truly hope that all Charismatics are on guard for this possibility and do not discount it. Especially you hermanito, I would hate to see faith such as yours twisted into something perverse without you even realizing it.

 

[gusano]

spello:

My Soul proclaims the greatness of the Lord and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior for He who is mighty has done great things and Holy is His Name.The Lord is alive. After all The Holy Spirit is the Lord the Giver of Life. Remember what Mary said"I am the handmaid of the Lord be it done unto me according to your word"…Tongues are low on the list of charismatic gifts, but certainly listed by Paul as one of the gifts given for the building up of the Body of Christ. One Bread One Body One Lord of All….Lets ask this? Where have all the gifts gone?

Hi spello,
Your hi-lighted Question reminds me of a dream I had;

We were in a “Mass like setting” the Priest in his Vestments, Servers, with Incense and all of us laity…
seemed to be in a “Procession” inside a HUGE WAREHOUSE, I could not see the end of it, we only spent ONE hour there.
As we Processed to each BIN The Priest would pull out a roll of BLUEPRINTS …The Bin was labeled “GIFTS”. each thick roll was for each Gift.
As we moved on, seeing that there were so many bins in this huge warehouse, with so many rolls of other Plans,
NO ONE asked Him to open one set of Plans
As we the congregation moved on with Him, He would continue to tell us ;"in each Bin, THIS (…?..) is available.
Yet NO ONE ever asked Him to unroll the set of Plans and "LET US DO IT !
In the hour we had, we only walked past a few BINS and emerged knowing very little more than before.
except that I felt an increasing sadness and urgency that NONE OF US asked Him to reveal anything to us !
WHAT, LORD JESUS, ARE WE MISSING ?
WHAT AM I MISSING ?..

I awoke from this dream sobbing deeply and uncontrollably…knowing we were missing something, but never took the time to ask Him WHAT ?

Now as you ask the question;'b]“Where have all the Gifts gone ?”…it all comes back to me.
He still has them all available for us…if only He could find some one who is INTERESTED.

God Bless you Mightily
In the Love of Christ

gusano

 

[gusano]

palmas85:

In response to your question #1 I provide the following:

1. Charisms are to be accepted with gratitude by the person who receives them, and by all members of the Church as well. They are a wonderfully rich grace for the apostolic vitality and for the holiness of the entire Body of Christ, provided they really are genuine gifts of the Holy Spirit and are used in full conformity with authentic promptings of this same Spirit; that is, in keeping with charity, the true measure of all charisms.

If the Church admits the possibility of some of these gifts not being genuine, then I would have to do the same thing. To follow any path blindly is not what the Church teaches wants or requires.

In response to your question #2 I will say only that Satan is the Father of lies, and can fake anything and everything he wants. It is said that he often comes clothed as an angel of light.

I am comforted by several posts that have been on this thread. attesting that discernment is a difficult thing to do and not lightly undertaken. I pray that is the accepted policy in force and not lip service.

I truly hope that all Charismatics are on guard for this possibility and do not discount it. Especially you hermanito, I would hate to see faith such as yours twisted into something perverse without you even realizing it.

Thanks for all the prayer and information you offer Palmas,
I appreciate your concern.
I don’t know as much as you know.
I only know a few things.

(1)…Jesus says; "Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am Gemtle and Humble of Heart.
(2)…"keep your eyes fixed upon Jesus…Author and finisher of your Faith"
(3)… The Body & Blood of Christ more than once a week.
(4)…Confession “face to face” with a Catholic Priest monthly.
(5)…Listen quietly to learn what He wants of me.
(6)…listen accurately what people tell me.
(7)…Surrender myself and everything in my life under Jesus feet
(at the Altar)

Satan has to get past the LION OF JUDAH first if he wants a piece of me. and I know he does.

gusano

 

[Traditional_Ang]

thistle:

I agree but I even doubt the gift of tongues in terms of gibberish exists. For me it is about real languages. Anyway I don’t think it should be allowed at Mass.

Thistle:

The “Gibberish” tends to be a “Prayer Language”, The appropriate places for using the (if the charismatics followed the dictates of St. Paul) would be during the “Prayers of the People” as Intercessory Prayer or at some point during the quiet time when all have received the Eucharist as a Prayer of Thanksgiving.

If we allowed the Holy Spoirit to be fully confered on us in Confirmation, I believe that we’d see many of the other gifts of the Spirit that St. Paul described manifest in our Churches and that these whould be for our edification:

Acts 2 - Tongues - Not Prayer Language, but Human Languange used to evangelize
Acts 3 - Healing
Acts 4 - Preaching
Acts 5 - Ananias and Sapphira struck dead - Prophecy. Boldness in the face of persecution.
Acts 7 - Stephen forgives his murderers.
Acts 8 - Samaritans receive the Holy Spirit. Philip flies?
Acts 9 - Saul knocked off his high horse, healed and becomes Paul. Peter raises Tabitha from the dead.
Acts 10 - The Holy Spirit falls on Corneliu and his houseguests.
Acts 11 - Prophecy.
Acts 12 - Peter released from his chains.
Acts 14 - Lame man healed.
Acts 16 - Demon exorcised.
Acts 19 - Holy Spirit falls on believers in Corinth who spoke in tongues and prophesied. Numerous healings and exorcisms.
Acts 20 - Eutychus raised from the dead. Prophecy.
Acts 21 - Prophecy.
Acts 27 - Prophecy.
Acts 28 - Survives bite from poisonous snake. Numerous cures and healings.

And so forth.

We would all see this power displayed in our churches if we were open to it and ready for it. I Corinthians 12-13 was written because Christians were exercising those gifts during the Eucharist (I believe during the Liturgy of the Word).

In Christ, Michael

 

[Traditional_Ang]

gusano:

Hi spello,
Your hi-lighted Question reminds me of a dream I had;

We were in a “Mass like setting” the Priest in his Vestments, Servers, with Incense and all of us laity…
seemed to be in a “Procession” inside a HUGE WAREHOUSE, I could not see the end of it, we only spent ONE hour there.
As we Processed to each BIN The Priest would pull out a roll of BLUEPRINTS …The Bin was labeled “GIFTS”. each thick roll was for each Gift.
As we moved on, seeing that there were so many bins in this huge warehouse, with so many rolls of other Plans,
NO ONE asked Him to open one set of Plans
As we the congregation moved on with Him, He would continue to tell us ;"in each Bin, THIS (…?..) is available.
Yet NO ONE ever asked Him to unroll the set of Plans and "LET US DO IT !
In the hour we had, we only walked past a few BINS and emerged knowing very little more than before.
except that I felt an increasing sadness and urgency that NONE OF US asked Him to reveal anything to us !
WHAT, LORD JESUS, ARE WE MISSING ?
WHAT AM I MISSING ?..

I awoke from this dream sobbing deeply and uncontrollably…knowing we were missing something, but never took the time to ask Him WHAT ?

Now as you ask the question;'b]“Where have all the Gifts gone ?”

…it all comes back to me.
He still has them all available for us…if only He could find some one who is INTERESTED.

God Bless you Mightily
In the Love of Christ

gusano

Gusano:

The gifts are there, but we aren’t disposing ourselves to receive them. Healing often requires intercession. Intercession requires that we be willing to have real empathy, which means that we might have to suffer for a while as the person being prayed for is suffering.

How many people do you know are willing to have trouble breathing for a few hours so someone can be cured of emphazema? How many people do you know are willing to have a flu so someone can be cured of AIDS?

That’s where the gift of Healing went.

Prophecy - It requires that whatever be said be said in submission to authority and that it be said even when what is said is uncomfortable and unpopular. Prophets are almost never popular.

How many people do you know who are willing to do that in order to have few friends?

I could go on, but I; just say that, when we are ready for The Spirit to be poured out on us, and ware willing to live the lives that will allow us to submit to God so that He can use us, The Spirit and the Gifts will be poured out, and you will see the fruits of the spirit flourishing in the Church.

In Christ, Michael

 

[gusano]

Traditional Ang:

Gusano:

The gifts are there, but we aren’t disposing ourselves to receive them. Healing often requires intercession. Intercession requires that we be willing to have real empathy, which means that we might have to suffer for a while as the person being prayed for is suffering.

How many people do you know are willing to have trouble breathing for a few hours so someone can be cured of emphazema? How many people do you know are willing to have a flu so someone can be cured of AIDS?

That’s where the gift of Healing went.

Prophecy - It requires that whatever be said be said in submission to authority and that it be said even when what is said is uncomfortable and unpopular. Prophets are almost never popular.

How many people do you know who are willing to do that in order to have few friends?

I could go on, but I; just say that, when we are ready for The Spirit to be poured out on us, and ware willing to live the lives that will allow us to submit to God so that He can use us, The Spirit and the Gifts will be poured out, and you will see the fruits of the spirit flourishing in the Church.

In Christ, Michael

Hi Michael,
I have returned from a trip where I had some time to think about your wonderful post. thank you very much.
In James it says "The prayer of a Just man avails much…"

I take it Jesus wants us to live filled with The Holy Spirit so He can make us Holy (Just)…That is, to OFFER out bodies
as a living sacrifice at the Altar, to accept whatever befalls us in the circumstances of our lives.
In that way The Leading of The Holy Spirit can transform our lives unto Christ…as He draws & Forms us into Holiness.

I have seen (myself included) where people get so desireous of “manifesting gifts”…that we forget about Holiness,
without which no one will see God,
and persue manifestations and become "An evil generation is always seeking signs & wonders…

I believe Jesus wants us Full of His Spirit so he can make us Holy,
So He can Reveal The New Covenant in us and form us all into ONE PEOPLE OF HIS OWN.
and these (4) evidences are functioning in one who is IN CHRIST;
(1) …The Message (Kerygma)
(2) …The Fellowship in The Holy Spirit (Koinonia)
(3) …The Eucharistic Liturgy (Eucharistia)
(4) …Our Witness (Marturia)

Some of the “water” that spills over as we walk in his leading becomes the Gifts He gives as confirmation.
without us seeking them.

I pray that everyone’s heart is still filled
with THANKSGIVING

gusano