Tongues/Languages of Angels

[grannymh]

I’m sorry, I didn’t see that you’d replied.

1. Hasn’t the Catholic Church always been charismatic, via grace

Yes. But we are addressing the Catholic Charismatic Renewal. Renewal is renewing and not a continuation.

1. If we speak to God, we don’t need another language to do so, so why the need to speak in a language we don’t understand - that is not communication, surely?

We may not understand the sounds which the Holy Spirit produces. However, I am sure that God is capable of understanding prayer directed to Him.

1. God Wills Himself (Love) in the silence - doesn’t the idea of tongues denote the opposite?

If you want to think that there is only one kind of prayer, that is your free choice.

God speaks to us, in language we can discern. This is the whole point of communication and why it was gifted to us, in Creation. Although, it is said that the Holy Spirit speaks for us with “sighs too deep for words”.

If there were real interest in what the Holy Spirit does, the information about God speaking through a person would be there.

If you can add anything to this, maybe to extrapolate (if that’s the right word) a little, on your above post, for the benefit of others, including myself, to do with the Charismatic Renewal, then please do (wow, that sentence had a lot of commas! ).

I am glad I am traveling. This is way different from waiting for someone to actually be interested in what the Holy Spirit does in the Catholic Charismatic Renewal. Note: one does not have to be in the Catholic Charismatic Renewal to receive the common gift of praying in Tongues. Note that it is a common gift.

There have been a lot of small errors and a few larger errors in some, not all, previous posting in this thread and other threads. Most of these would disappear on their own once a person started with Pentecost. Note: the Holy Spirit giving the gift of Tongues took place within the upper room. What happened outside is known as a miracle of hearing. Interesting to me, years ago there was a poster who said that the miracle of hearing had taken place in modern times. I have no way of verifying this information. I will not limit the Holy Spirit’s power.

Praying in Tongues is so much better than road rage.

Please note that there have been some good comments and correct comments about the Holy Spirit. I think I replied to them. However, there have been so many distractions that I feel useless because I am dealing with distractions instead of honoring the Holy Spirit.

When someone is interested directly with the truth of Who, How, What, When, Where and Why about the Holy Spirit and His actual two gifts which employ the use of Tongues, I will do my best to explain.

I am looking forward to a drive through farmland.

 

[jcrichton]

He also uses unwilling or unwitting vessels. See Caiaphas’ prophecy about Jesus, for example. John 11:49-52 “But one of them, named Caiphas, being the high priest that year, said to them: You know nothing. Neither do you consider that it is expedient for you that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not. And this he spoke not of himself: but being the high priest of that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for the nation. And not only for the nation, but to gather together in one the children of God, that were dispersed.”

Hi, E!

Exactly!

It is all about God’s Will.

I’ve been around people who equate the Gift of the Holy Spirit as a sign of “spiritual growth/maturity.” Those who “do not have them” are not “true Believers” or are infants in the faith. (This I’ve found on both sides of the Tiber.)

I think that in their zealousness to “Serve” people get caught up and forgo the simple Command not to judge (we can judge ourselves far above of what we really are; while, simultaneously, devaluing others as our “lesser” or inferior).

We can also fall under the false presumption that the grass is greener where “the Gifts” can be experienced through miracles, prophesying, talking in tongues…

In effect, we are taking what was a sing for the unbelievers and making it a sign of the “elite” Believers.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

I went to Charismatic group, I was speaking in tongues before that, all on my lonesome.

I am still unconvinced the devil cant requiste this and use it. How does anyone know they arent babbling blaspheme.

Hi, Rose!

…or just caught up in the emotions… ever faked a head/stomach ache when wanting a day off from school? …sure enough a few minutes after faking being ill the body reacts as if one is actually ill… then there’s peer pressure… some people are compelled by others (or bullied) to commit to a certain act/behavior… some people are “people pleasers” as they would do almost anything to fit in with a particular click/crowd.

It is human nature to stand out and to conform (yeah, as convoluted as it sounds)… notice how only certain Gifts are sought/demonstrated… the simple ones, those that are not attention grabbing, seem to always be left behind.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[grannymh]

I hope this thread remains open so that the truth of the real Catholic Charismatic Renewal can be correctly proclaimed.

 

[jcrichton]

It is a good a good thing that I will be traveling.

Apparently, no one is interested in what the Holy Spirit does when He gives the gift of Tongues.

Hi, Granny!

…could you expand on your statement?

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Reuben_J]

I 100% know Pentecost and the Apostles spoke in tongues as the Holy Spirit touched them. There was a purpose to that, spreading the Gospel in different languages to different peoples.

Just some thought on this.

While it seems straight forward that the gift of tongue that the apostles experienced at Pentecost is for the spread of the Gospel, it is perhaps more complicated than that.

It was a gift because they acquired it from the Holy Spirit, not on their own. One can ask, how do we know that it was from the Holy Spirit and not the Devil hijacking it? It seems we take it for granted that it came from the Holy Spirit because the Bible says so, but the doubt could come in nevertheless for the apostles.

Discernment can be along that line.

The gift of tongue is the least of the gift but it is often said as the door to other gifts of the Holy Spirit.

When the apostles were to spread the Gospels, they had to be equipped to do it. Thus they were completely transformed after the Pentecost – no more the timid cringing disciples hiding from the Jews.

The transformation was caused by the Holy Spirit, not they. If they were to spread the Gospel, they have to be believable and capable of doing it, perhaps like Jesus himself. And that was not really far fetch because Jesus did promise that they could do even greater things than him.

Thus you’d notice the post-Pentecost apostles actually had many gifts of the Holy Spirit.

Even their shadows which were cast on the people would bring healing. (Gift of healing). People seek them.

Paul usually would receive word of knowledge from the Spirit, example, not to proceed to a certain town, and avoided being arrested.

Also word of wisdom - when he had to defend himself in the Romans court.

Thus, to spread the Gospel or rather to bring Jesus to the world, the gifts of the Spirit are extremely useful. Many later saints were endowed with them too.

But it is not only that but also where the effect would be to increase our own faith and increase in our love for God, prayers, and the Church, and avoiding and overcoming sins.

The Charismatic Renewal does this among Catholics – increases their love for God and a committed sense to avoid sin. The gifts of the Spirit do help in this area in some way.

I don’t have the experience of other groups or Catholic tongue speaking sessions to compare, no base water line to this group. I could go visit a non Catholic group that speaks in tongues in their service but that would defeat the purpose of discernment and comparison.

I suggest don’t. The Protestants Charismatic Church is not comparable to Catholic Charismatic Renewal other than the word charismatic.

I have yet to see someone or hear of someone in this setting step forward and be able to interpret what is being said. And up to 20 people can be praying in tongues simultaneously.

Admittedly, speaking in tongue is very rare.

If you are in Australia, there are some Covenant Communities especially in the nineties in Sydney, Perth or Brisbane, where there were occurrences of speaking in tongue and its interpretation.

Mainly what is more common is the praying in tongue, the tongue being of two purposes – to prophecy and to pray.

 

[grannymh]

Hi, Granny!

…could you expand on your statement?

Maran atha!

Angel

Why does the Holy Spirit offer the gift of Tongues. How does the Holy Spirit give the gift of Tongues? Explain the two separate gifts which employ the Holy Spirit’s gift of Tongues. What is the purpose of the Holy Spirit in the Catholic Church? Why is the Holy Spirit promised in the Gospel of Johh, chapter 14? When is the gift of Tongues used by the Holy Spirit?

 

[grannymh]

The Gospel of John, chapter 14 usccb.org/bible/john/14

15
“If you love Me, you will keep My commandments j
16
And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Advocate* to be with you always,"

Personally, I wonder if the persons at the Last Supper questioned Jesus about the Advocate. John, chapter 14 does offer further information about the Advocate. Still, there is peace in the Upper Room in spite of a “noise like a strong driving wind, and it filled the entire house in which they were.” (Acts 2: 1-2 ) “Then there appeared to them tongues as of fire, which parted and came to rest on each one of them.” (Acts 2: 3)

One observation can be that the Holy Spirit is the powerful Third Person in the Most Holy Trinity Who definitely has a purpose within the Catholic Church. Pentecost is often called the birthday of Catholicism.

There are always comments and questions about Acts 2: 1-13. This is a good place to comment and question.

 

[jcrichton]

Why does the Holy Spirit offer the gift of Tongues.

What is the purpose of the Holy Spirit in the Catholic Church?

Why is the Holy Spirit promised in the Gospel of Johh, chapter 14?

Hi, Granny!

The best passages to understand this is found in Acts 1 and 2, Romans 13 and 14 (and as follows). The main purpose was to demonstrate that God’s Timetable had in deed been activated:

1 ‘After this I will pour out my spirit on all mankind. Your sons and daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, and your young men see visions. 2 Even on the slaves, men and women, will I pour out my spirit in those days. 3 I will display portents in heaven and on earth, blood and fire and columns of smoke.’

(Joel 3:1-3)
It was also to Convict the world and to Demonstrate the other Paraclete’s Witnessing of Jesus:

11b he will baptise you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

(St. Matthew 3:11b)

8 And when he comes, he will show the world how wrong it was, about sin, and about who was in the right, and about judgement…

12 I still have many things to say to you but they would be too much for you now. 13 But when the Spirit of truth comes he will lead you to the complete truth, since he will not be speaking as from himself but will say only what he has learnt; and he will tell you of the things to come… (St. John 16:8-15)

4 When he had been at table with them, he had told them not to leave Jerusalem, but to wait there for what the Father had promised. ‘It is’ he had said ‘what you have heard me speak about: 5 John baptised with water but you, not many days from now, will be baptised with the Holy Spirit.’ (Acts 1:4-5)

How does the Holy Spirit give the gift of Tongues?

This is one of those “mysteries” that only God Knows; but we are privy to some rudimentary understanding (Romans 8:26-27); this means that it is through Divine intervention and not out of human bequest or merit. This also means that He could very well intercede in not only human speech but in human cognition–that is the Apostles could well have spoken in many different languages or simply have been heard in many different languages while speaking either a human language or a Divine Revelation which would be understood by the various people gathered after the Coming of the Holy Spirit.

Explain the two separate gifts which employ the Holy Spirit’s gift of Tongues.

What we know is that there are two distinctive measures: a) as during Pentecost where human language was the medium, and, b) as the explanation given by St. Paul in Romans 14–sounds that are not part of normal human speech but rather a form of communication with God (as noted, Rom. 8).

When is the gift of Tongues used by the Holy Spirit?

This is a funny question… many seem to think that it is when man determines that he wants a “special” one-on-one with God or when he wants to “build” or “enhance” his status… but that would be as though man can distribute the Gift of the Holy Spirit according to his desire; rather, it is the Holy Spirit Who determines when His Gifts are poured out and it is also He Who determines the purpose of pouring out His Gifts.

It is possible that seeking the Gifts of the Holy Spirit can inspired God to Give them out–otherwise why would Jesus tell us to ask the Father or to ask Him for the things we need/want if our disposition would not motivate God to unleash the Good from Above?

But it is not as something that we can acquire by willing it to happen.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[e_c]

Between God and the Devil, it is pretty easy to see the difference. Basic litmus test would be to see whether something brings peace to the person if it comes from the Spirit.

The saints do not agree with this, especially John of the Cross and Teresa of Avila. They think it is haaaaaaard and often not worth even paying enough attention to find out beyond mentioning it to one’s director. FWIW.

 

[jcrichton]

The Gospel of John, chapter 14 usccb.org/bible/john/14

15
“If you love Me, you will keep My commandments j
16
And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Advocate* to be with you always,"

Personally, I wonder if the persons at the Last Supper questioned Jesus about the Advocate. John, chapter 14 does offer further information about the Advocate. Still, there is peace in the Upper Room in spite of a “noise like a strong driving wind, and it filled the entire house in which they were.” (Acts 2: 1-2 ) “Then there appeared to them tongues as of fire, which parted and came to rest on each one of them.” (Acts 2: 3)

One observation can be that the Holy Spirit is the powerful Third Person in the Most Holy Trinity Who definitely has a purpose within the Catholic Church. Pentecost is often called the birthday of Catholicism.

There are always comments and questions about Acts 2: 1-13. This is a good place to comment and question.

Hi, Granny!

…there’s lots and lots that did not make it into Sacred Scriptures… have you noticed how Scriptures do not put the issue of the Holy Spirit in question… not even once?

Jesus changes the warning against blaspheming against the Name of Yahweh God to blaspheming against the Holy Spirit as the unforgivable sin… and not once does it seem to be questioned!

The angel Gabriel tells the Virgin about the Holy Spirit but she simply states: ‘I’m the Lord’s handmaiden, be it His Will’ Joseph is given a vision in a dream and because it is the Holy Spirit’s Conception he takes the Virgin home with him. The Virgin’s relative is made aware that the Virgin is bringing her a special Guest: ‘the mother of my Lord!’ …all of this in reference to the Holy Spirit… finally, in Acts we find Jesus and the Holy Spirit working directly with the Church… no one bats an eyelid!

Faith is not about what we know; Faith is about what we Hope for because of Who has Given us that Hope!

Clearly, as we engage God or better still, as God engages us and we yield to Him the Holy Spirit Convicts us of the Truth (St. John 16).

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Faith1960]

Oddly I have never once heard this happen anywhere except in a Pentecostal church.

It is very real, I have seen people speak in tongues, it is not just babble as some think, there is a dialect there, but like anything else, it can be faked.

I know a Charismatic Catholic who speaks in tongues sometimes, though only once in front of me. She admitted to me she didn’t know what she was saying.

 

[grannymh]

Right now, my computer and I are in a war and the computer is winning.

My intention is to do a series of teaching posts on the Catholic Charismatic Renewal. Teaching 1 is post 48.

In the past on CAF, I have done a teaching on a special individual element. This is the first time I am attempting to do a teaching starting at the beginning.

 

[Reuben_J]

• also means that He could very well intercede in not only human speech but in human cognition–**that is the Apostles could well have spoken in many different languages or simply have been heard in many different languages while speaking either a human language or a Divine Revelation which would be understood by the various people gathered after the Coming of the Holy Spirit. **

What we know is that there are two distinctive measures: a) as during Pentecost where human language was the medium, and, b) as the explanation given by St. Paul in Romans 14–sounds that are not part of normal human speech but rather a form of communication with God (as noted, Rom. 8).

This is a funny question… many seem to think that it is when man determines that he wants a “special” one-on-one with God or when he wants to “build” or “enhance” his status… but that would be as though man can distribute the Gift of the Holy Spirit according to his desire; rather, it is the Holy Spirit Who determines when His Gifts are poured out and it is also He Who determines the purpose of pouring out His Gifts.

It is possible that seeking the Gifts of the Holy Spirit can inspired God to Give them out–otherwise why would Jesus tell us to ask the Father or to ask Him for the things we need/want if our disposition would not motivate God to unleash the Good from Above?

But it is not as something that we can acquire by willing it to happen.

Maran atha!

Angel

And we know some of the later saints too.

Saint Pope John Paul II, for his part, has been more explicit. Speaking to a group of international leaders of the Renewal on December 11, 1979, he said, I am convinced that this movement is a very important component of the entire renewal of the Church.

Noting that since age 11 he had said a daily prayer to the Holy Spirit he added,
This was my own spiritual initiation, so I can understand all these charisms. They are all part of the richness of the Lord. I am convinced that this movement is a sign of his action.

ewtn.com/expert/answers/charismatic_renewal.htm

St. Francis Xavier

Whilst he exercised his zeal in Travancore, God for the first time bestowed upon His servant the gift of tongues. It happened suddenly, before an immense crowd of people who had gathered in some remote area to hear the man whose name had been echoed up and down the coast as far north as Calcutta. As the holy priest opened his mouth to give word to the interpreter, he began to speak in the very Tamilese dialect proper to the audience before him.

Many of the saints had gifts of prophecy and speaking in tongues, which are recognized as valid gifts of the Holy Spirit in the Catholic church. **Saint Anthony, Saint Dominic and St. Paul of the Cross **are three of the more well known saints with the gift of speaking in tongues.

acatholic.org/the-saints-had-the-gift-of-prophecy-and-speaking-in-tongues/

**St Anthony and the Gift of Tongues

The gift of Tongues in the preaching of St Paul of the Cross

The gift of speaking in Tongues in the life of St Dominic**
miraclesofthesaints - speaking-in-tongues-supernatural-gift

 

[grannymh]

Teaching, Catholic Charismatic Renewal, 2.

This is simply an acknowledgement that there were serious concerns about the validity of the early days of the Catholic Charismatic Renewal. When the dust settled, there was a strong, truly Catholic Renewal.

Yet, even now, there are a few persons who are splitting from the Catholic Charismatic Renewal and are doing their own thing. The Charismatic Prayer Group I had attended closed because it lost members. Recently, one of the last living members received a warning from the Diocese that a “charismatic” speaker, who was not approved, was headed in our direction. My point is that when one is looking for a Charismatic prayer group, one can check with the Diocese as to the status of a particular group. I mention this because in some of the previous posts, there were some rather odd approaches to the Tongue Gifts of the Holy Spirit at the same time that there were correct points. This made me wonder what kind of groups had these teachings. Or maybe people simply did not remember the correct teaching.

 

[jcrichton]

And we know some of the later saints too.

Saint Pope John Paul II, for his part, has been more explicit. Speaking to a group of international leaders of the Renewal on December 11, 1979, he said, I am convinced that this movement is a very important component of the entire renewal of the Church.

Noting that since age 11 he had said a daily prayer to the Holy Spirit he added,
This was my own spiritual initiation, so I can understand all these charisms. They are all part of the richness of the Lord. I am convinced that this movement is a sign of his action.

ewtn.com/expert/answers/charismatic_renewal.htm

St. Francis Xavier

Whilst he exercised his zeal in Travancore, God for the first time bestowed upon His servant the gift of tongues. It happened suddenly, before an immense crowd of people who had gathered in some remote area to hear the man whose name had been echoed up and down the coast as far north as Calcutta. As the holy priest opened his mouth to give word to the interpreter, he began to speak in the very Tamilese dialect proper to the audience before him.

Many of the saints had gifts of prophecy and speaking in tongues, which are recognized as valid gifts of the Holy Spirit in the Catholic church. **Saint Anthony, Saint Dominic and St. Paul of the Cross **are three of the more well known saints with the gift of speaking in tongues.

acatholic.org/the-saints-had-the-gift-of-prophecy-and-speaking-in-tongues/

**St Anthony and the Gift of Tongues

The gift of Tongues in the preaching of St Paul of the Cross

The gift of speaking in Tongues in the life of St Dominic**
miraclesofthesaints - speaking-in-tongues-supernatural-gift

Hi, Reuben!

I’m not an avid reader, but what I understand, from my mom’s devotions, is that the Saints did not seek out the Gifts of the Holy Spirit–and that those who received them were became even more humbled by the Gifts… one of mom’s favorite devotions was to St. Martin de Porres–this poor fellow was shunned because he was a “mulato” (mixed race) and because of his poverty… yet, the Holy Spirit bestowed upon him His Grace and he was Gifted beyond measure… I understand that he remained, without Receiving the Priestly Orders, a Layman but the Church recognized God’s Works in him.

The Gifts of the Holy Spirit is always for the edification of the Body (the Church), even when they may apply to the individual’s spiritual growth.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

Teaching, Catholic Charismatic Renewal, 2.

This is simply an acknowledgement that there were serious concerns about the validity of the early days of the Catholic Charismatic Renewal. When the dust settled, there was a strong, truly Catholic Renewal.

Yet, even now, there are a few persons who are splitting from the Catholic Charismatic Renewal and are doing their own thing. The Charismatic Prayer Group I had attended closed because it lost members. Recently, one of the last living members received a warning from the Diocese that a “charismatic” speaker, who was not approved, was headed in our direction. My point is that when one is looking for a Charismatic prayer group, one can check with the Diocese as to the status of a particular group. I mention this because in some of the previous posts, there were some rather odd approaches to the Tongue Gifts of the Holy Spirit at the same time that there were correct points. This made me wonder what kind of groups had these teachings. Or maybe people simply did not remember the correct teaching.

Hi, Granny!

I think that the errors arise because of man’s ego; the best example of “good intentions” going wrong is found in Scriptures as Jesus rejects a whole bunch of “do gooders:”

21 ‘It is not those who say to me, “Lord, Lord”, who will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the person who does the will of my Father in heaven. 22 When the day comes many will say to me, “Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, cast out demons in your name, work many miracles in your name?” 23 Then I shall tell them to their faces: I have never known you; away from me, you evil men!’

(St. Matthew 7:21-23)
It can be surmised that these people did at one time or another Received the Gifts of the Holy Spirit; however, they departed from the Truth. Did they forget to act in Love or to place God above themselves or to remain humble in spite of the Gift/s they had Received?

I have personally witness where a “Catholic Charismatic Group” has moved from humble Obedience to the Holy Spirit to show boating and self-importance… to the point of acting against the local parish to which it belonged.

The Holy Spirit will never Bestow upon man His Gifts so that man can dismantle the Body of Christ!

…as St. Paul warns, Romans 13 thru 14, God is not a God of chaos but of Order.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[grannymh]

Hi, Reuben!

I’m not an avid reader, but what I understand, from my mom’s devotions, is that the Saints did not seek out the Gifts of the Holy Spirit–and that those who received them were became even more humbled by the Gifts… one of mom’s favorite devotions was to St. Martin de Porres–this poor fellow was shunned because he was a “mulato” (mixed race) and because of his poverty… yet, the Holy Spirit bestowed upon him His Grace and he was Gifted beyond measure… I understand that he remained, without Receiving the Priestly Orders, a Layman but the Church recognized God’s Works in him.

The Gifts of the Holy Spirit is always for the edification of the Body (the Church), even when they may apply to the individual’s spiritual growth.

Maran atha!

Angel

In normal Catholic life, it is appropriate to seek one of the Holy Spirit ministry gifts listed in 1 Corinthians, chapter 12.

This is a natural part of seeking to serve God in His Catholic Church. What happens in the current Catholic Charismatic Renewal is that the person seeking one of St. Paul’s ministries in 1 Corinthians, chapter 12 has first a mature spiritual life. Next there is an in depth study of the particular Charismatic gift which is being sought. Next, the person seeking spends time in prayer seeking to understand God’s will. It is then obvious that the discernment process is required.

It is extremely important to recognize that the above information is not the same as
“yet, the Holy Spirit bestowed upon him His Grace and he was gifted beyond measure”

Catholics must stop limiting the Holy Sprit’s power here on CAF.

 

[jcrichton]

In normal Catholic life, it is appropriate to seek one of the Holy Spirit ministry gifts listed in 1 Corinthians, chapter 12.

This is a natural part of seeking to serve God in His Catholic Church. What happens in the current Catholic Charismatic Renewal is that the person seeking one of St. Paul’s ministries in 1 Corinthians, chapter 12 has first a mature spiritual life. Next there is an in depth study of the particular Charismatic gift which is being sought. Next, the person seeking spends time in prayer seeking to understand God’s will. It is then obvious that the discernment process is required.

It is extremely important to recognize that the above information is not the same as
“yet, the Holy Spirit bestowed upon him His Grace and he was gifted beyond measure”

Catholics must stop limiting the Holy Sprit’s power here on CAF.

Hi, Granny!

…I think that you are confusing vocabulary…

I don’t see anyone stifling the Holy Spirit; rather, I feel that there’s a genuine search for answers…

The Gifts of the Holy Spirit do not comprise of the Gift of speaking in tongues; yet, it seems to me that many many people who get involved in “movements” actually hold to only three things: ‘speaking in tongues’ and ‘speaking in tongues’ and ‘prophetic pronouncements.’

Asking for an intimate relationship with God or to have greater Faith or to gain a deeper spirituality (commitment and activity) is not a rejection or stifling of the Holy Spirit…

Wanting to speak in tongues or to be a prophet or to be a leader is not only stifling but it is commanding.

…as for the Holy Spirit bestowing Grace beyond measure… have you read the life of the Saints? …does having Gifts not make it to the level of “beyond measure?” Do you dismiss the miracles, the life of prayer, the many conversions brought about by these saints, their many abilities to resolve problems, their abilities to communicate with animals, their ability to Preach the Gospel, their abilities to bring man (including the Clergy) back to God, their constant humble existence… and, in some cases, the Stigmata?

Did any of those Saints asked for these Gifts?.. did they sought out the specific Gifts that were Bestowed upon them?

You and I are part of the Body–yet, our vocabulary and our understanding is different; but we must Serve the One Lord, and we must do it in the One Faith and in the One Spirit (Holy Spirit).

Maran atha!

Agnel

 

[grannymh]

Hi, Granny!

…I think that you are confusing vocabulary…

I don’t see anyone stifling the Holy Spirit; rather, I feel that there’s a genuine search for answers…

The Gifts of the Holy Spirit do not comprise of the Gift of speaking in tongues; yet, it seems to me that many many people who get involved in “movements” actually hold to only three things: ‘speaking in tongues’ and ‘speaking in tongues’ and ‘prophetic pronouncements.’

Asking for an intimate relationship with God or to have greater Faith or to gain a deeper spirituality (commitment and activity) is not a rejection or stifling of the Holy Spirit…

Wanting to speak in tongues or to be a prophet or to be a leader is not only stifling but it is commanding.

…as for the Holy Spirit bestowing Grace beyond measure… have you read the life of the Saints? …does having Gifts not make it to the level of “beyond measure?” Do you dismiss the miracles, the life of prayer, the many conversions brought about by these saints, their many abilities to resolve problems, their abilities to communicate with animals, their ability to Preach the Gospel, their abilities to bring man (including the Clergy) back to God, their constant humble existence… and, in some cases, the Stigmata?

Did any of those Saints asked for these Gifts?.. did they sought out the specific Gifts that were Bestowed upon them?

You and I are part of the Body–yet, our vocabulary and our understanding is different; but we must Serve the One Lord, and we must do it in the One Faith and in the One Spirit (Holy Spirit).

Maran atha!

Agnel

Please accept my sincere apology for this comment.

As usual, on CAF, participants are not deeply knowledgeable about the real Catholic Charismatic Renewal. Naturally, they like posting some of the human problems which are so obvious.

Unfortunately, there is tons of confusion between gifts and gifts.

The above post has a partial example. This only leads to others using a partial example as denying the modern Catholic Charismatic Renewal which follows the early teachings in the early Catholic Church.

The word “Renewal” means renewing.