Too many rules and not enough loving?

[cheddarsox]

Sometimes Catholicism comes across as “follow these rules and they will lead you to God” and sometimes Protestantism comes off as “Believe in Jesus, He is all you need”

When I think the idea behind them both is that a relationship with God/Jesus will affect our whole lives (and afterlives).

A closer walk with God will transform our behavior, In Catholicism, the rules show how this will look. Protestants also teach this, but don’t map it out to the same degree, so some come to think that beahvior isn’t important to them. And they think that the rules of Catholicism down play the relationship with God.

Getting too focused on either end of the spectrum keeps us from hitting the bullseye, which is a life transformed by a divine relationship.

cheddar

 

[Mijoy2]

YinYangMom:

For me, it’s a matter of faith in Christ’s timing. Just as I wasn’t ready to understand and embrace His teachings for many years, I recognize those around my must not be ready either…but because I pray for them, because I walk among them living the example of Christ within me, I have faith, trust and hope that the mustard seed is planted and will grow in its own time.

Jesus didn’t demand we follow Him.
He invited us to.
And that means we have to take an action to accept that invitation.
Those around us aren’t rejecting the invitation as much as they are procrastinating about saying yes.

Thank you YinYangMom.

As a Dad this terrifies me. Even though I have witnessed steps in the right direction of my daughters since they were confirmed last year (20 year old) and the previous year (17 year old) they still spend little, if any time, attempting to learn more about thier faith. They still fall victim to much of the things our society deems appropriate. I try to tell myself just what you wrote in your post.

It took me until I was well into my forties for that mustard seed to take root. My children are not nearly as worldly and selfish as I was at thier age. Yet, of course being a Dad I want assurance of thier souls.

Funny, I always wanted what was best for them in this life. Now I tell them I want what is best for them after this life…and hope they understand.

Thank you for your post, I needed the reminder of Gods mercy.

 

[felra]

Magicsilence:

Are we bogged down by rules and apologetics that we have forgotten to spread the love?

IMO, feeling “bogged down” by Church “rules” is usually a sign that one is still bumping against the boundary or painfully looking at the rules from the outside.

 

[buffalo]

felra:

IMO, feeling “bogged down” by Church “rules” is usually a sign that one is still bumping against the boundary or painfully looking at the rules from the outside.

You are right felra. It is a painful journey and all they/we want is love without the pain, (the feelgood stuff) even though deep down they/we feel the truth.

 

[rwoehmke]

Back in the 60’s or 70’s someone postulated a psychlogical spectrum of how a human being develops. There were several versions of this, but the main point was that early on a person follows the rules out of fear of punishment, next they start to follow the rules because they are “the rules.” The last stage was one where the rules were internalized and understood as to why they existed. At this last stage the person was able to follow the spirit rather than the letter of the law. Actions and behavior were rooted in mature love and concern for self and others. In my opinion a some Catholics get stuck somewhere along this path of development and never reach maturity. As for the evangelizing caring fervor of some evangelicals, I think we experience only the really “hot for the Lord ones.” They are in your face and one assumes that they are the majority of those who are protestant Christians when in actual fact they are as much a minority as Catholics who are strong into Evangelization or Apoligetics. In my opinion there is a definite difference between a Catholic Evangelist and a Catholic Apologist, although a few are good at both. Consider for example the number of people who are active in this forum versus the total number of Catholics in this world. Most Catholics are satisfied to just exist.

 

[deb1]

One point that no one has made-perhaps none of you are from a fundamentalist background-is that there are certain Protestant Christian churches that are bogged down by rules.

In my previous church a good Christian:

Didn’t drink alcohol

Was at church every time the doors opened. That means twice on Sunday and once on Wednesday. And every single function no matter how trival.

A good Christian went out of their way to witness to others even if it meant spiritually beating the poor person over the head

Didn’t use substitue curse words; like shoot or darn

Didn’t listen to rock music.

Didn’t believe in evolution

Sent their children only to church universities. (This was not just suggested but strongly, strongly encouraged)

Didn’t play any video game involving any type of magic at all, but the violent shoot em up were hunky dory.

Although not a requirement, the pastor encouraged long dresses on women.

Tithe regardless of your financial difficulties. I was told that not doing so meant that a person didn’t trust God. And no, you couldn’t give 5% to your church and 5%to a charity.

 

[Magicsilence]

I think I understand what you are saying…apologetics are making you feel bogged down and you are having trouble tearing yourself away to feel the spiritual side.

Almost, although i adore reading and delving in about our faith; after reading the “Imitation of Christ” I can totally understand what Christ is calling us to do, and i do feel peace when i try and act such things out. Its just within that book it says that foolish men worry about the things of this world(i.e questions such as: If im on plane going left, can i eat meat even though technically its friday in my country) and those true to God live simply for Him. Maybe you can see why i asked the original question?

 

[Magicsilence]

Mijoy2:

Sometimes, I ask myself…I wonder just what Jesus thinks about this or that particular argument?

Is [this] a mortal sin?
Is [this particular form] of marital sexual relation okay?
Is [this form of dress] modest enough?
Can I look at a woman wearing a low cut top for 1 second, 5 seconds or more seconds? (are low cuts in fashion this year more then past years??? sure seems so).

EXACTLY what I’m getting at, too much focus on sin and damnation, working out precise methods of defining this or that. Does Jesus really sit there saying “Current state of soul, HELLBOUND” “Reason, unrepented mortal sin #3478924” or whatever.

 

[Magicsilence]

LSK:

Now, correct me if I misunderstand you. I think what you are concerned about is those people who are so focused on the ‘rules and regulations’ that they seem to ‘forget’ the purpose of being a Catholic Christian, right?

No need to correct you, thats exactly it.

I myself have to be watchful - am I adhering as best I can to the Catechism and the teachings of the Holy Mother Church out of LOVE for Jesus or out of PRIDE - trying to be the ‘perfect Catholic’.

And I feel the same, it sometimes can be confusing as to which of the feelings you are doing it for.

I think, Andre, that you and I are thinking that we can make the mistake of seperating what the Church requires from the REASON it is required, and therefore forget to act as Love in the Heart of the Church.

Is that right or am I off track?

Completely on track.

 

[buffalo]

Magicsilence:

EXACTLY what I’m getting at, too much focus on sin and damnation, working out precise methods of defining this or that. Does Jesus really sit there saying “Current state of soul, HELLBOUND” “Reason, unrepented mortal sin #3478924” or whatever.

Maybe. If He is perfectly just He must take it all into account. Why would that be so difficult to believe?

 

[LSK]

buffalo:

Maybe. If He is perfectly just He must take it all into account. Why would that be so difficult to believe?

I agree, Buffalo. It will all be sorted out by He who is Truth.

BUT - Jesus told St. Faustina that the mistake we make is we do not give all of ourselves to Him - our weaknesses, our sins, our fears, our doubts etc. I believe that Andre, by asking the question, is reminding us to do just that - give all of ourselves to Jesus, including our worries that we might NOT be doing right, right…lololol.

At least that’s what I THINK he is saying - it’s like those Evangelical Christians who can recite Bible Verses but hate homosexuals dying of AIDS. I want to make sure I am not a Catholic Christian who knows all the correct prayers and times and Catechism numbers but forget why I am Catholic in the first place.

AND, like YOU pointed out, I cannot fall into the sin of worry and despair…if I feel that creeping up, give it immediately to my Lord and Savior and then, say the right prayer at the right time!

 

[Magicsilence]

felra:

IMO, feeling “bogged down” by Church “rules” is usually a sign that one is still bumping against the boundary or painfully looking at the rules from the outside.

Id have to respectfully disagree. Its easier to look on the rules and say “I would be bogged down”, but I can get overwhelmed by everything at times precisely because I am trying to immerse myself in the love of Christ. The fact of the matter is that i am finding it very hard to crush my old nature, and it is annoying because before i was so heavily into apologetics i found it a little easier, i guess because i wasnt so hard on myself, the more you have, the more is expected of you, i suppose.

 

[Fidelis]

Libero:

I would answer yes.

This is one thing that Cardinal Murphy O’Connor complimented the Anglican church on. He said that they were keen to become closer to Jesus, and to particularly spread the love of God, (or something along those lines).

Which might explain why they’ve gone off the rails in ordaining women and practicing homosexuals. Loving people into hell, I think it’s called.

 

[Magicsilence]

buffalo:

You are right felra. It is a painful journey and all they/we want is love without the pain, (the feelgood stuff) even though deep down they/we feel the truth.

EXCUSE ME, but you have no idea of the pain i have felt since embracing Christ. I have HARDLY felt any love, but persevered nonetheless, at times realising that things within my homelife were seriously wrong, and i was a hiding deep feelings without realising it.
Opening oneself and doing true soul searching is extremely tough and painful. You think its easy to go from an extremely lapsed catholic to one that is trying to imitate Christ. It is darn hard.

Please, save your judgements for yourself.

 

[Magicsilence]

LSK:

I agree, Buffalo. It will all be sorted out by He who is Truth.

BUT - Jesus told St. Faustina that the mistake we make is we do not give all of ourselves to Him - our weaknesses, our sins, our fears, our doubts etc. I believe that Andre, by asking the question, is reminding us to do just that - give all of ourselves to Jesus, including our worries that we might NOT be doing right, right…lololol.

hehe, yes yes yes

At least that’s what I THINK he is saying

It is, it is.

• it’s like those Evangelical Christians who can recite Bible Verses but hate homosexuals dying of AIDS. I want to make sure I am not a Catholic Christian who knows all the correct prayers and times and Catechism numbers but forget why I am Catholic in the first place.

AND, like YOU pointed out, I cannot fall into the sin of worry and despair…if I feel that creeping up, give it immediately to my Lord and Savior and then, say the right prayer at the right time!

I try and do that.

 

[buffalo]

Magicsilence:

EXCUSE ME, but you have no idea of the pain i have felt since embracing Christ. I have HARDLY felt any love, but persevered nonetheless, at times realising that things within my homelife were seriously wrong, and i was a hiding deep feelings without realising it.
Opening oneself and doing true soul searching is extremely tough and painful. You think its easy to go from an extremely lapsed catholic to one that is trying to imitate Christ. It is darn hard.

Please, save your judgements for yourself.

I thinke we are in agreement so I am not sure why you accused me of judging.

 

[Magicsilence]

Fidelis:

Which might explain why they’ve gone off the rails in ordaining women and practicing homosexuals. Loving people into hell, I think it’s called.

Does love have limitations then?

 

[Magicsilence]

buffalo:

I thinke we are in agreement so I am not sure why you accused me of judging.

Well, im sorry,

Thought you were having a go.

 

[buffalo]

Magicsilence:

Does love have limitations then?

Human love does have limitations. God’s love does not. If we were truly capable of infinite love we wouldn’t need the rules.

 

[buffalo]

From St Faustina’s Diary: (Jesus’ words in red)

** February 13, 1938. I saw how unwillingly the Lord Jesus came to certain souls in Holy Communion. And He spoke these words to me: I enter into certain hearts as into a second Passion.

…
**
** The Lord has given me to know how much He desires the perfection of chosen souls. Chosen souls are, in My hand, lights which I cast into the darkness of the world and with which I illumine it. As stars illumine the night, so chosen souls illumine the earth. And the more perfect a soul is, the stronger and the more-far reaching is the light shed by it. It can be hidden and unknown, even to those closest to it, and yet its holiness is reflected in souls even to the most distant extremities of the world.

Today, the Lord said to me, Daughter, when you go to confession, to this fountain of My mercy, the Blood and Water which came forth from My Heart always flow down upon your soul and ennobles it. Every time you go to confession, immerse yourself entirely in My mercy, with great trust, so that I may pour the bounty of My grace upon your soul. When you approach the confessional, know this, that I myself am waiting there for you. I am only hidden by the priest, but I myself act in your soul. Here the misery of the soul meets the God of mercy. Tell souls that from this fount of mercy souls draw graces solely with the vessel of trust. If their trust is great, there is no limit to My generosity. The torrents of grace inundate humble souls. The proud remain always in poverty and misery, because My grace turns away from them to humble souls.

** ** February 20, 1938. Today the Lord said to me, I have need of your sufferings to rescue souls.
O my Jesus, do with me as You please. I did not have the courage to ask the Lord Jesus for greater sufferings, because I had suffered so much the night before that I would not have been able to bear a drop more than what Jesus himself gave me. **