Too much chatter in the Sanctuary

[Actaeon]

I live in England and no matter which church I go to, sometimes the priest has not even left when chatter “explodes”, people greeting and shrieking and talking about dishwashers (today’s experience, although it was before Mass, not after), they yell to each other across the church, laugh aloud, etc.

Shrieking? Really? They are LITERALLY shrieking, or are you being hyperbolic and inflamatory?

If the first is the case, then this is a severe problem, given the nature of the intransitive verb shrieking is generally applied to shock, terror, pain, or surprise… none of which should be occuring after the mass! If the latter, then this precludes charitable discussion of the phenomenon, and you might want to consider refraining from using such vocabulary.

I agree with the poster who said it is down to people not understanding about the Real Presence. Also not understanding what happens when you receive the Lord in the Holy Eucharist.

I would generally attribute it to the degrading standards of courtesy in the west before I lept to the much less charitable assumption that everyone around me somehow failed to understand that transubstantiation occurs and/or don’t believe in the real presence. A more simple explanation is that formal training in manners and deportment is all but totally dead in our society… people simply don’t understand that certain areas are associated with silence for respectful purposes…

…and that applies ANYWHERE. Visit the national archives or the national capitol while the congress and senate are in session: they are still noisy despite signs and warnings NOT to be loud. Is it because these people don’t understand what a senate is, or that there is a senate in session? No, it is because they don’t understand the gravity of their actions or what they represent because they are uneducated on social norms.

When the Mass has ended I (would) like to pray a bit silently, talk to the Lord who has just come and embraced me, enjoy His presence, talk to Him. But people easily talk “across you” (two people sitting on either side of you), discuss dishwashers in your immediate vicinity and generally behave like in an outdoor market.

Here I agree, and you should take it to your priest to address or else resolve to attend a different parish (if he chooses not to act on it in a substantial manner)

I have also been thinking that it feels almost like the vent on a pressure cooker: people who during the previous hour sat silently, stood up or kneeled when they were supposed to, then formed an orderly queue when the time came for that appear to suddenly be “freed”, almost as if they had done their bit in behaving nicely for an hour and now they are finally allowed to do what they wanted all along. Which raises the question of why people come to Mass at all. Sometimes I wish the Church would lift the Sunday Mass obligation, so people who only go to fulfill it would not need to go any more…

I’m sorry, and maybe it is just the way you have phrased it here, but comes off as a truly harsh thing to be thinking about your fellow parishoners, who are every bit equal parts of the Body of Christ that you are. I certainly cannot judge you or your dispositions, but I will say that if I were in such a mindset at mass I would CERTAINLY refrain from receiving communion until I could approach Christ on the altar without judgement for others.

 

[Prairie_Rose]

We have these signs displayed in the areas most prone to chatter.

I like this idea - maybe my Priest would consider doing something like this! Thank You

 

[sedonaman]

Jesus Divine Mercy to St. Faustina.

1717 Today, I was talking with the Lord, and He said to me, There are souls with whom I can do nothing. They are souls that are continuously observing others, but know nothing of what is going on within their own selves. …

Somehow I find it difficult to believe He was talking about those who go to church but not with the idea of “observing others” and who get distracted against their will. That’s why “speak little; speak low.”

 

[Prairie_Rose]

Jesus Divine Mercy to St. Faustina.

1717 Today, I was talking with the Lord, and He said to me, There are souls with whom I can do nothing. They are souls that are continuously observing others, but know nothing of what is going on within their own selves. They talk about others continually, even during times of grand silence, which is reserved for speaking only with Me. Poor souls, they do not hear My words; their interior remains empty. They do not look for Me within their own hearts, but in idle talk, where I am never to be found. They sense their emptiness, but they do not recognize their own guilt, while souls in whom I reign completely are a constant source of remorse to them. Instead of correcting themselves, their hearts swell with envy, and if they do not come to their senses, they plunge in even deeper. A heart, which thus far is envious, now begins to be filled with hate. And they are already at the edge of the precipice. They are jealous of my gifts in other souls, but they themselves are unable and unwilling to accept them.

This was AWESOME - Thanks so much for sharing!!
The sad thing is - even if Father did address the problem, those that are the worst offenders probably wouldn’t recognize themselves as the problem

 

[Cavaille-Coll]

In many parishes, people have no regard for what the priest says. If he asks people to take their conversations out into the vestibule, they will say (with reference to a preceding pastor) that “Fr. So-and-so encouraged us to socialize, and we disagree with you on this.” The same goes for applauding the choir, making priestly gestures during Mass (i.e. that silly “And with your spirit” hand-spread), or roaming around during the sign of peace and well into the Agnus Dei. “Fr. So-and-so wanted us to have ‘good community’.”

 

[Deo_Gratias42]

In many parishes, people have no regard for what the priest says.

This is another major problem in parishes these days. People have little or no consideration for the authority priests hold.

“Fr. So-and-so wanted us to have ‘good community’.”

“Yeah, well, Fr. So-and-so is gone now.”

 

[anp1215]

When I read the beginning of your thread, I thought you meant the sanctuary-the area behind the altar. The way we as Catholics use the term is different than Protestants who usually just mean the church.

Yes, my parish is like this too, and yes it can be frustrating.

 

[Prairie_Rose]

When I read the beginning of your thread, I thought you meant the sanctuary-the area behind the altar. The way we as Catholics use the term is different than Protestants who usually just mean the church.

Yes, my parish is like this too, and yes it can be frustrating.

I’m sorry for the misuse of the word, I guess I was under the impression that the area where the pews are located, where the parishioners sit during Mass was the Sanctuary.
If this area is not the Sanctuary, what IS the proper term??
Thanks!!

 

[JimG]

When I was growing up way back when, it was customary to hear people talk outside of church and in the vestibule. But the instant they opened the heavy door and entered the church itself, there was absolutely no talking. It was as if the mute button had been pushed. No one talked again after Mass until getting out into the vestibule again. Some people liked to stay in the pews and pray for awhile, and they could do it in absolute silence.

Now, my parish church is better than most, I think, in holding down the talking before Mass. There does tend to be some talking after Mass, with people not waiting to get into our spacious vestibule before starting conversations.

But when I go to a relative’s parish church in another city, I am truly astonished. We enter the church, kneel down in a pew, pray for awhile, sit back, and everyone immediately begins conversing–with those around them, with those in front of them, with those behind them, as if we were at a county bazaar! Just astonishing.

 

[robwar]

The priest in my parish had to put out a specific request for this to stop a couple of weeks ago… there’s been no noticible improvement.

continue to support your priest, it is not easy because even though he might have a request in, he could have gotten flack for it. Also, one person (a priest) can’t turn the tide alone.
He will need support from others on staff, the sacristan, etc.

 

[MikeDunphy]

I’m sorry for the misuse of the word, I guess I was under the impression that the area where the pews are located, where the parishioners sit during Mass was the Sanctuary.
If this area is not the Sanctuary, what IS the proper term??
Thanks!!

The word nave is often used.

 

[robwar]

So for someone to accuse another poster of being harsh, you have certainly been harsh. To tell another that they have the wrong mindset to receive communion and not be judgmental, you have done the same. She has just venting her frustrations on noise in church and the lack of quiet and peace and reverence. To tell her or anyone not to approach the alter because you think that they are judging others, you have done what you have accused her of. Most of the posts on this thread are legitimate complaints and thoughts of what to do about excess noise in Church. It is sad to see such an attack on someone else.

 

[Actaeon]

So for someone to accuse another poster of being harsh, you have certainly been harsh.

This should be interesting…

To tell another that they have the wrong mindset to receive communion and not be judgmental, you have done the same.

Perhaps you should read my post again, since I clearly never told anyone that they have the wrong mindset to attend communion. I merely stated that if I espoused that mindset as stated during time to go to communion that I personally would choose to refrain.

If you’d like, you may read the history of my posts… you will find that not telling others the state of their disposition is a big deal for me. You will also find my constant refrain to regard one’s fellow parishoners with charity.

She has just venting her frustrations on noise in church and the lack of quiet and peace and reverence.

There is a fine line between complaining about the level of post-mass noise and presuming that ones fellow parishoners wish they could be boisterous during the mass and/or couldn’t be bothered to come if Sunday obligation was not a rule of the church. There is a reason I divided the post to separately address what was very legitimate concerns instead of partnering it with what, as stated, is a rash judgement of others.

To tell her or anyone not to approach the alter because you think that they are judging others, you have done what you have accused her of.

Again, if you read my post, you will find that I never said anyone shouldn’t approach the altar…

Most of the posts on this thread are legitimate complaints and thoughts of what to do about excess noise in Church.

Yes, legitimate complaints and the only valid response: report it to the church authority and then let them dispose of it as they see fit.

It is sad to see such an attack on someone else.

Did I attack anybody? No. Again, to highlight the fact, what I said was that a particular statement was worded in a harsh way (giving the benefit of the doubt that the person who posted it didn’t mean it that way and highlighting that they might want to restate it). I then proceeded to say that, as stated, if I felt that way that I would personally refrain from receiving (after highlighting that I would NOT presume to tell anyone that they should do the same, since I’m not in any position to judge ANYBODY’s spiritual disposition).

Now, please kindly allow the person to whom I responded to clarify, rather than rewriting my post to try and pin on me something I did not say

 

[Prairie_Rose]

Thank You Robwar for you comments and for standing up in defense of a fellow CAF member. As the OP, I certainly feel a bit dismayed that a fellow CAF’er was “zinged” by another, for commenting on a post started by me. It was not my intention of my post to cause anyone’s feelings to be hurt. The world could you a few more people like you, as there are too many bullies in the world today. My teenage daughter can tell you all about the bullies of the school scene!!

I just wish that the atmosphere at Mass could revert back to the days of reverence and observance of more dignified & respectful behavior. Case in point, during the Mass for the Holy Day / Assumption of Mary, we had to sit through a nearly 30 min. tantrum from a 3 yr old boy, and neither parent felt it necessary to take the child to the vestibule or “God forbid” the nice glass-walled cry room our Parish installed with speakers, so the Mass can be seen & heard while in said cry room. Sad, just sad…

Ok, I’m done venting now - Thanks to all that commented and I hope no one’s feelings were unduly hurt.

~~Prairie Rose

 

[robwar]

Thank You Robwar for you comments and for standing up in defense of a fellow CAF member. As the OP, I certainly feel a bit dismayed that a fellow CAF’er was “zinged” by another, for commenting on a post started by me. It was not my intention of my post to cause anyone’s feelings to be hurt. The world could you a few more people like you, as there are too many bullies in the world today. My teenage daughter can tell you all about the bullies of the school scene!!

I just wish that the atmosphere at Mass could revert back to the days of reverence and observance of more dignified & respectful behavior. Case in point, during the Mass for the Holy Day / Assumption of Mary, we had to sit through a nearly 30 min. tantrum from a 3 yr old boy, and neither parent felt it necessary to take the child to the vestibule or “God forbid” the nice glass-walled cry room our Parish installed with speakers, so the Mass can be seen & heard while in said cry room. Sad, just sad…

Ok, I’m done venting now - Thanks to all that commented and I hope no one’s feelings were unduly hurt.

~~Prairie Rose

you have a legitimate frustration and thread. This is a real issue and needs discussion.

 

[g_ncl]

Shrieking? Really? They are LITERALLY shrieking, or are you being hyperbolic and inflamatory? If the first is the case, then this is a severe problem, given the nature of the intransitive verb shrieking is generally applied to shock, terror, pain, or surprise…

Yes. For example shrieking in delight and surprise at seeing a good friend who had been away on holiday. No, I am not being inflamatory, Actaeon. And it does not necessary mean that “there is a severe problem”, as you say, because Catholicism is lived very differently in different parts of the world. In England unfortunately this is normal and accepted in many parishes.

I would CERTAINLY refrain from receiving communion until I could approach Christ on the altar without judgement for others.

I am sorry to hear that, Actaeon. I believe that the Lord invites and accepts us as we are in Holy Communion, bar having a mortal sin, but thinking that the behaviour of the people after Mass is like the vent on a pressure cooker does not constitute mortal sin. Unless certain of having committed a mortal sin, I would always receive the Lord and ask for His mercy and healing, rather than keeping away from Him.

Thank you, Robwar and Prairie Rose. :grouphug:

making priestly gestures during Mass (i.e. that silly “And with your spirit” hand-spread),

I have also seen this and find it really distasteful (and in some parishes people are also encouraged in joining in and saying certain parts of the Mass normally said by the priest).

 

[MissRose73]

I still wish priests would talk about the need for quiet in the main worship area. People can chat all they want outside of it but anything beyond something “hello, how are you?” in a quiet voice or a few words calm down a child is unnecessary. I’d rather hear the recitation of the Rosary or other devotions prior to Mass by a group of people, perhaps it would force those who have a need to constantly talk before to either tone the volume down and/or talk outside the worship space preferably.

Also, those who are caring for young children should be charitable to others nearby and remove a child(ren) that cannot be calmed down to either outside the worship space or to a parents room/cry room if available.

 

[garn9173]

“The Mass has ended, go in Peace to love and serve the Lord” and the closing hymn has finished, I don’t see what the big deal is.

 

[MissRose73]

“The Mass has ended, go in Peace to love and serve the Lord” and the closing hymn has finished, I don’t see what the big deal is.

Some people do like to sit (or kneel) and pray some when Mass is finished for a few minutes, and would appreciate some semblance of quiet. I know its not required but I see more people spending time in quiet prayer after Mass regardless of the form you attended. But usually with the EF Mass, people tend to be much more considerate of those praying before and/or after Mass, and keep the volumes minimal.

 

[Cat]

Some people do like to sit (or kneel) and pray some when Mass is finished for a few minutes, and would appreciate some semblance of quiet. I know its not required but I see more people spending time in quiet prayer after Mass regardless of the form you attended. But usually with the EF Mass, people tend to be much more considerate of those praying before and/or after Mass, and keep the volumes minimal.

One of the best things we can all learn how to do–and it is a struggle to learn–is how to pray and meditate upon the Lord in the midst of noise, confusion, and chaos. It is good to be able to shut out all the distractions around us and talk to Him.

The time may come when we are forced to do this; e.g., we are taken ill and must spend time in a busy, bustling hospital where medical professionals are coming and going in and out of the room, and machines are beeping and buzzing, and the overhead speaker is constantly paging someone.

That being said, I agree that many of us tend to forget that we are in the Presence of the Lord. I believe, however, that the Lord Jesus would not be angry with those who are attempting to showing loving friendship to their Christian brothers and sisters. I think we are too harsh with each other.

Finally, I think that one of the issues that we need to address is WHY we feel the need to speak with our Christian brothers and sisters in the nave. I believe it’s because many of us have schedules that are so packed and often out-of-control that we have little or no time set aside for “Christian fellowship” or for making and practicing friendship. Certainly we could chat for a few minutes in the parking lot, but generally speaking the weather forbids this, and we are in a hurry to get to our cars so we can drive at break-neck speed to our next “obligation” (work, chores, childcare, family responsibilities).

Friendship is way down on our list of “Things I Must Do.”

I would ask the readers of this thread when the last time was that you had friends over for dinner? Or coffee?

I would also ask, “Do you even have any friends.”

Perhaps you are exceptional, but according to many studies, many of us (and I am included in this number) have no friends.

This is very dangerous for our mental and physical health, as these same studies show that those who have friends that they regularly spend time with are much healthier and happier.

So my proposal is that the chatter in the nave is symptomatic of something that is wrong in our U.S. society–we have lost the ability to make and maintain friendships, and we are trying desperately to reach out and make contact with non-family human beings whenever we have a chance, which just happens to be before and after Mass.