Top papal aide says Vatican ‘worried’ about Trump’s refugee order

[ATeNumquam]

It certainly reached a crescendo today.
Defending the Church, Pope Francis, and the clergy will not only get you pounced on by followers of personality cult of Donald Trump, it will also lead to death threats.
The threat in question was part of a thread now deleted, meaning not in public view.
On the internet nothing is really ‘deleted’, it can found easily by people in authority.

On that I must bid adieu. I fought the good fight. People can enjoy their Pope bashing while defending the Glorious Leader. This forum has already lost a sainted priest, Don Ruggero and several others who defend the Pope and his bishops.
So enjoy yourselves.
You won’t have Son of Niall to kick around anymore.

If you go, “Son”, it would be a terrible loss to this forum, IMHO. On the rather rare occasions I look into the World News forum, I ALWAYS read your posts and identify with them, even as a foreigner. Ah well… understandable.:tiphat:

 

[pnewton]

Apparently you confuse charity with “niceness.”

No, I do not. There is more to that quote than a cursory reading, but there is nothing rude in it. It was a reasoned argument, recalling the word he personally received from Christ. BTW, “nice” is one of those Newspeak words, that is really part of the fruit of the Holy Spirit, but today has become a traditionalist insult to those who strive to live in those fruits of the Spirit and in Christian charity.

I do not know if you are copying this word from the others that use it, but over the years it has become rather trite.

 

[James248]

No, I do not. There is more to that quote than a cursory reading, but there is nothing rude in it. It was a reasoned argument, recalling the word he personally received from Christ. BTW, “nice” is one of those Newspeak words, that is really part of the fruit of the Holy Spirit, but today has become a traditionalist insult to those who strive to live in those fruits of the Spirit and in Christian charity.

I do not know if you are copying this word from the others that use it, but over the years it has become rather trite.

“Living like a Gentile” was an insult back then.

And no, “niceness” is not of the Spirit. www.catholicstand.com/the-danger-of-nice/

 

[JustaServant]

If you go, “Son”, it would be a terrible loss to this forum, IMHO. On the rather rare occasions I look into the World News forum, I ALWAYS read your posts and identify with them, even as a foreigner. Ah well… understandable.:tiphat:

People do not like to be threatened online. I know screenshots were taken. I have no idea if they will be turned over to law enforcement.

I will tell you. I feel like something very evil has been unleashed in this country. Because I have seen people say things, not online, that I never would have heard many years ago. The fact that the Pope himself, a man of peace, is being attacked is very telling.
Now might be the time for people to tread very carefully. Many times evil masquerades as good. And many times people don’t realize that, until it’s too late.
I will stand by the Pope.
If people want to threaten me, fine. I’m in good company.

 

[Ridgerunner]

The US bishops have directly condemned the recent EO, as you know.

My comments are not directed exclusively at you. I don’t know what all your positions are, but to the extent you are saying the Church is not speaking on US immigration policy you are mistaken. The Church is speaking against current US immigration policy.

You find the Church’s statements to be “general” which allows you to claim that you are not disagreeing with the Church. But the Church’s statements have not been general. Cardinal Cupich called the executive order a “dark day in American history,” which is not vague or general.

“The bishops” have not condemned it. “Some” bishops have. Most, like my own bishop, appear not to have supported or condemned it. Possibly Cdl Cupich does consider the policy a “dark day”. But again, there are a lot of other bishops who have not.

Of course “the Church” speaks about immigration policy in a general way. “The Church” has not condemned the U.S. or Trump for his temporary halt on immigration from six countries that have no government and one that is the number one exporter of terrorism in the world.

When did “the Church” demand that the U.S. admit Iranians without careful vetting, for example? I haven’t seen it.

 

[Ridgerunner]

People do not like to be threatened online. I know screenshots were taken. I have no idea if they will be turned over to law enforcement.

I will tell you. I feel like something very evil has been unleashed in this country. Because I have seen people say things, not online, that I never would have heard many years ago. The fact that the Pope himself, a man of peace, is being attacked is very telling.
Now might be the time for people to tread very carefully. Many times evil masquerades as good. And many times people don’t realize that, until it’s too late.
I will stand by the Pope.
If people want to threaten me, fine. I’m in good company.

No threat from here.

But I have seen some of the ugliest things imaginable said by Trump haters about him and about those who support him. I would agree something evil has been unleashed in this country. It favors abortion on demand and the profanation of marriage, among other things, burns vehicles and smashes windows on campuses and city streets.

Seems it only took one political reverse for it to erupt in a very ugly manner. One can only hope that the rage will calm down after awhile. But it might not. Makes one very concerned what that way of thinking had in store for us had it not been removed from power in the 2016 election.

 

[Ridgerunner]

The US bishops have directly condemned the recent EO, as you know.

My comments are not directed exclusively at you. I don’t know what all your positions are, but to the extent you are saying the Church is not speaking on US immigration policy you are mistaken. The Church is speaking against current US immigration policy.

You find the Church’s statements to be “general” which allows you to claim that you are not disagreeing with the Church. But the Church’s statements have not been general. Cardinal Cupich called the executive order a “dark day in American history,” which is not vague or general.

“The U.S. bishops” have not done so. A handful of bishops have.

Nor is Cdl Cupich “The Church”.

To what part of U.S. immigration policy do you think “The Church” speaks against? If you know in detail, perhaps you could share the information.

I do not share Cdl Cupich’s view that temporarily detaining 109 people out of approximately 300,000 is all that “dark a day”. Do you know why those 109 people were detailed? Does Cdl Cupich? Do you or he know for sure what Trump had in his mind in ordering it? To what intelligence, if any, was he privy that is not available to any of us?

I don’t know any of that, any more than you do or Cdl Cupich does. But neither am I going to assume it was done for any reason other than for the security of people in this country.

 

[SuperLuigi]

Poppycock!

I’m sorry Follow but you are wrong. There has never been “liberal” and “conservative” Catholicism.

These are importations from secular politics that are utterly foreign to the tradition of the Church.

Different approaches to adapting the timeless deposit of Faith to the vagaries of succeeding eras as doctrinal understanding develops - oh yes, that’s Catholic.

But “liberal” and “conservative”? 18th-19th century enlightenment terms?

Give me a break.

Orthodox and heterodox, sure.

But “orthodox” does not directly line up with “liberalism or conservatism” as defined by secular politics.

The terms are used interchangeably with politics and faith at times in the USA.

Probably not the best idea that’s ever been.

So you are right. It’s the easiest explanation.

 

[ATeNumquam]

People do not like to be threatened online. I know screenshots were taken. I have no idea if they will be turned over to law enforcement.

I will tell you. I feel like something very evil has been unleashed in this country. Because I have seen people say things, not online, that I never would have heard many years ago. The fact that the Pope himself, a man of peace, is being attacked is very telling.
Now might be the time for people to tread very carefully. Many times evil masquerades as good. And many times people don’t realize that, until it’s too late.
I will stand by the Pope.
If people want to threaten me, fine. I’m in good company.

Maybe I’ve missed something through being here so rarely. I don’t know anything about your being threatened or if Son of Nial is involved.

Fact is, what you have said here, I am 100% in agreement with. Every single word.

 

[JustaServant]

Maybe I’ve missed something through being here so rarely. I don’t know anything about your being threatened or if Son of Nial is involved.

Fact is, what you have said here, I am 100% in agreement with. Every single word.

No, nobody threatened me. SON was.
I too normally avoid this forum.
Now I remember why.

 

[2_RollinStoned]

I was struck by the appropriateness of Sunday’s first reading which was from Isaiah…
Isiah 58:7-10

Thus says the LORD:
Share your bread with the hungry,
shelter the oppressed and the homeless;
clothe the naked when you see them,
and do not turn your back on your own.
Then your light shall break forth like the dawn,
and your wound shall quickly be healed;
your vindication shall go before you,
and the glory of the LORD shall be your rear guard.
Then you shall call, and the LORD will answer,
you shall cry for help, and he will say: Here I am!
If you remove from your midst
oppression, false accusation and malicious speech;
if you bestow your bread on the hungry
and satisfy the afflicted;
then light shall rise for you in the darkness,
and the gloom shall become for you like midday.

 

[abucs]

No threat from here.

But I have seen some of the ugliest things imaginable said by Trump haters about him and about those who support him. I would agree something evil has been unleashed in this country. It favors abortion on demand and the profanation of marriage, among other things, burns vehicles and smashes windows on campuses and city streets.

Seems it only took one political reverse for it to erupt in a very ugly manner. One can only hope that the rage will calm down after awhile. But it might not. Makes one very concerned what that way of thinking had in store for us had it not been removed from power in the 2016 election.

Yes, and it is this evil many of us want to see challenged, especially from within the Catholic Church because it is her role to do so.

 

[RPRPsych]

Amen.

This forum barely merits the appellation “Catholic” anymore.

Good that everyone is waking up to this.

 

[TMC]

“The bishops” have not condemned it. “Some” bishops have. Most, like my own bishop, appear not to have supported or condemned it. Possibly Cdl Cupich does consider the policy a “dark day”. But again, there are a lot of other bishops who have not.

Of course “the Church” speaks about immigration policy in a general way. “The Church” has not condemned the U.S. or Trump for his temporary halt on immigration from six countries that have no government and one that is the number one exporter of terrorism in the world.

When did “the Church” demand that the U.S. admit Iranians without careful vetting, for example? I haven’t seen it.

If you want to close your eyes and ears and pretend the Church is not speaking, that is your prerogative, I suppose.

 

[JustaServant]

Good that everyone is waking up to this.

It’s a very concerning trend, and I only see it on this sub-forum.
Many years ago when the internet was young there was a forum called the Fighting Fundamentalist Forum. It was basically moderator-less and the owner (a guy in New Orleans) could care less about.it. I remember many threats of physical violence that emitted from that sewer. Eventually Hurricane Katrina hit and his attention was diverted elsewhere. It was rapidly invaded by porn bots and eventually shut down. My taste for internet forums dropped after that.
When I returned to the Catholic Church over a decade ago I found CAF. I would really hope it will not meet with the same fate.
My suggestion is to contact the owners of the forum.

 

[RPRPsych]

It’s a very concerning trend, and I only see it on this sub-forum.
Many years ago when the internet was young there was a forum called the Fighting Fundamentalist Forum. It was basically moderator-less and the owner (a guy in New Orleans) could care less about.it. I remember many threats of physical violence that emitted from that sewer. Eventually Hurricane Katrina hit and his attention was diverted elsewhere. It was rapidly invaded by porn bots and eventually shut down. My taste for internet forums dropped after that.
When I returned to the Catholic Church over a decade ago I found CAF. I would really hope it will not meet with the same fate.
My suggestion is to contact the owners of the forum.

Sad to hear this.

It’s also kind of ironic, because if you Google “Catholic Answers Forums”, one of the first things you’ll find (apart from the site itself, duh ) is a variety of blog and forum posts by people complaining that they were banned for trivial reasons. I myself have received the Hammer of Moderation for such things as questioning the Kasper Proposal, calling out a poster who seemed to be trolling, and refuting a poster who claimed that Muslims were more pleasing to God than Catholics because of their dress code. However, these days, “anything goes” seems to be the motto.

I agree with you that the owners need to be contacted, or this will devolve into a free-for-all and all the serious minds will gradually abandon ship.

 

[OraLabora]

Sad to hear this.

It’s also kind of ironic, because if you Google “Catholic Answers Forums”, one of the first things you’ll find (apart from the site itself, duh ) is a variety of blog and forum posts by people complaining that they were banned for trivial reasons. I myself have received the Hammer of Moderation for such things as questioning the Kasper Proposal, calling out a poster who seemed to be trolling, and refuting a poster who claimed that Muslims were more pleasing to God than Catholics because of their dress code. However, these days, “anything goes” seems to be the motto.

I agree with you that the owners need to be contacted, or this will devolve into a free-for-all and all the serious minds will gradually abandon ship.

I have already contacted the forum administrator to no avail. PM me if you want details. Apparently there is nothing to be done except bailing from CAF, which is what I am doing, other than to warn others by this message that this has already been attempted. I also know for a fact I’m not the only one who wrote to the admin. The is something nefarious happening to CAF. I can’t quite put my finger on it, but I can no longer participate here in good conscience.

Not that I think it will do any good but I urge those leaving to write to the form administrator to explain why.

 

[JustaServant]

I have already contacted the forum administrator to no avail. PM me if you want details. Apparently there is nothing to be done except bailing from CAF, which is what I am doing, other than to warn others by this message that this has already been attempted. I also know for a fact I’m not the only one who wrote to the admin. The is something nefarious happening to CAF. I can’t quite put my finger on it, but I can no longer participate here in good conscience.

Not that I think it will do any good but I urge those leaving to write to the form administrator to explain why.

If a new forum opens to replace this one, I hope you would consider participating.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=14430953&postcount=31

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

(name removed by moderator);14453117]As Ridgerunner points out the Tsarnaev family was one the Russians had warned you about long before the events in Boston. For whatever reasons their warnings were not acted upon however

.

Your point only qualifies that the existing vetting system failed, and Innocent Americans were murdered in the name of Islam.

Your point supports the reason why President Trump wants, Has to pause the influx of refugees until a properly vetting system can be put in place to prevent Islamic Terrorist such as the Tsarnaev family from entering and re-entering the U.S after being radicalized to kill innocent Americans.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

pnewton;14453342]The brothers that bombed the Boston Marathon was not on the list of any countries addressed by Donald Trump’s executive order. They were not Arab enough. The man behind the San Bernadino Massacre was born in Chicago. But then, hasn’t Trump threatened to invade Chicago!?:

Again the Boston Marathon Muslim brothers killed Americans, due to an existing failed vetting system. It was reported the older brother left the U.S and entered an Islamic extremist school and training, but our vetting system did not give the U.S grounds to act despite warnings, thus American’s were killed.

The San Bernardino couple has an arranged marriage. The wife was not properly vetted when she arrived from the middle East. The result, Americans were killed in the name of Islam after the born American Muslim was radicalized.

I believe you are missing the whole point, when you suggested that “Trump threatened to invade Chicago?”.