Torture is a mortal sin, Pope Francis emphasizes [CC]

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freeRadical said:
I’m sure the US government has used torture many times to get information from terrorists about potential terrorist attacks.
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The problem is that they say that it is not torture, but an enhanced interrogation technique. How do you define torture and is waterboarding torture? The defenders of Bush and Cheney say that no, waterboarding is not torture. Is solitary confinement torture? Many people say yes it is, but the defenders of the prison system say that it is not. So first of all, it is necessary to define torture and to see what is included as being torture. Then, secondly, the current Catholic teaching seems to be at variance with the previous teaching which allowed certain types of torture, under restricted conditions, to be used in the Inquisition. Pope Innocent IV is said to have approved it.
 
freeRadical said:
Was it a mortal sin centuries ago when the Church condoned it?

How is torture a mortal sin and capital punishment isn’t?
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Yes. Capital punishment by burning at the stake, does seem to be torture. I am sure that it was painful.
 
TheAdvocate said:
There is no way Pope Francis would agree with Fr. Harrington’s conclusions. I’m embarrassed that a Catholic priest would take this position.
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But Father H. is only going by what other Popes have said. For example, he notes: “And in 1252 Pope Innocent IV introduced confession-extracting torture (cf. B4) into the procedures of the Inquisition, which had recently been established by his predecessor Gregory IX. After this, the very practice condemned by Pope St. Nicholas I as contrary to divine law (cf. B1) was to enjoy the approval of popes, bishops and theologians for half a millennium, and was even endorsed by an ecumenical council.”
So, it appears that the Roman Catholic Church has changed its teaching on torture with Pope Innocent IV approving it (under certain restricted conditions) and the present Pope condemning it
 
Tomdstone said:
But Father H. is only going by what other Popes have said. For example, he notes: “And in 1252 Pope Innocent IV introduced confession-extracting torture (cf. B4) into the procedures of the Inquisition, which had recently been established by his predecessor Gregory IX. After this, the very practice condemned by Pope St. Nicholas I as contrary to divine law (cf. B1) was to enjoy the approval of popes, bishops and theologians for half a millennium, and was even endorsed by an ecumenical council.”
So, it appears that the Roman Catholic Church has changed its teaching on torture with Pope Innocent IV approving it (under certain restricted conditions) and the present Pope condemning it
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Exactly. The Church has had conflicting teachings regarding the use of torture, and I think the issue needs to be looked at more closely, and the terms need to be more accurately defined. Torture can mean one thing to one person, and something completely different to someone else.
TheAdvocate said:
There is no way Pope Francis would agree with Fr. Harrington’s conclusions. I’m embarrassed that a Catholic priest would take this position.
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Fr. Harrison’s conclusions are based on the history of our Church and the actions of its leaders. Hard to blame him for stating what the Church already has in the past.
 
freeRadical said:
Was it a mortal sin centuries ago when the Church condoned it?

How is torture a mortal sin and capital punishment isn’t?
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Merely my opinion but I believe that torture is wrong no matter what the “opinion” of the Church is.

As far as torture and/or capital punishment being a “mortal sin” or wrong or one or the other or both, is it the “state” or the “person” carrying out the state’s wishes that is “guilty” of the mortal sin and/or wrongdoing?

People have, at times, claimed that they were only “doing their jobs”, does this absolve them if indeed what they are doing is a sin and/or wrong or is this just an excuse and/or a cop-out?
 
freeRadical said:
I’m sure the US government has used torture many times to get information from terrorists about potential terrorist attacks.

I don’t know where you are getting this “ticking time bomb” scenario from my post.
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As far as “I’m sure the US government has used torture many times to get information from terrorists about potential terrorist attacks” but was it TORTURE or was it enhanced interrogation techniques?

Of course, as far as “enhanced interrogation techniques”, nothing more than a blatant lie to pretend to be doing something other than what one is doing.

Attempting to “pretty up”, so to speak, what one is doing merely makes one a liar on top of what one is doing.
 
larsont7 said:
Exactly. The Church has had conflicting teachings regarding the use of torture, and I think the issue needs to be looked at more closely, and the terms need to be more accurately defined. Torture can mean one thing to one person, and something completely different to someone else.

Fr. Harrison’s conclusions are based on the history of our Church and the actions of its leaders. Hard to blame him for stating what the Church already has in the past.
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Just as one can not “hide behind” the state, so to speak, one can not “hide behind” the Church, in other words our “conscience” is inside us not inside some book.
 
Tom_Baum said:
Merely my opinion but I believe that torture is wrong no matter what the “opinion” of the Church is.

As far as torture and/or capital punishment being a “mortal sin” or wrong or one or the other or both, is it the “state” or the “person” carrying out the state’s wishes that is “guilty” of the mortal sin and/or wrongdoing?

People have, at times, claimed that they were only “doing their jobs”, does this absolve them if indeed what they are doing is a sin and/or wrong or is this just an excuse and/or a cop-out?
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What about the inquisition and the practice of burning heretics at the stake?
 
Memaw said:
Don’t spread unsubstantiated lies.
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What are you talking about? Are you saying that the Catholic Church did not approve of the Inquisition or of the burning of heretics at the stake, or that Pope Innocent IV did not approve of torture under some conditions?
 
One of the things that Pope John Paul II did, was to go around the whole planet and make public confessions of the sins of the Catholic Church.

Jesus never, ever said that His Church would be PERFECT, what He said was that His Church had a mission and that that mission was/is “that the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against It”.

In other words, a tie is absolutely and utterly unacceptable.

God’s Plan is catholic, new heaven/s and a new earth, whatever they may happen to be.

Seems as if quite a few people are more interested in the details than in the inclusivity of God’s Plan.
 
Those who believe in torture should watch Prisoners. If you find committing torture yourself is objectionable, you shouldn’t expect others to do it for you. Although there are some people who might enjoy torture, that’s another problem.
 
Holly3278 said:
Pope Francis is exactly right. Torture is gravely sinful and should not be tolerated under any circumstances whatsoever. It is a grievous violation of human rights. Nobody should ever be tortured, no matter what the reason.
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I agree.
 
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