B
Benedict108
Guest
It’s true. 1ke is pretty much on point.
- Status
L
Linna
Guest
I really cannot believe the answers posted here to this woman. Way to much Catholic guilt here.
Ask God to forgive you of any part you had in the breakup of the marriage and God will forgive you. Divorce and remarriage is NOT the unpardonable sin. Christ died for all sin, not just sin the Pope says is ok to forgive. You don’t need the Catholic church to make you feel guilty and ostracized from God. God sees the pain and suffering you endured while married and does not expect you to continue to live a life as you described. If you truly repent of your part in the failure of the marriage, God will forgive you. Move on, and live a happy life with your new husband and child.
[edited]God’s laws of forgiveness are much more important that any man’s laws of enslaving people to live lonely and separate lives. Ask forgiveness of the marriage from God and He will forgive you.
Ask God to forgive you of any part you had in the breakup of the marriage and God will forgive you. Divorce and remarriage is NOT the unpardonable sin. Christ died for all sin, not just sin the Pope says is ok to forgive. You don’t need the Catholic church to make you feel guilty and ostracized from God. God sees the pain and suffering you endured while married and does not expect you to continue to live a life as you described. If you truly repent of your part in the failure of the marriage, God will forgive you. Move on, and live a happy life with your new husband and child.
[edited]God’s laws of forgiveness are much more important that any man’s laws of enslaving people to live lonely and separate lives. Ask forgiveness of the marriage from God and He will forgive you.
L
Linna
Guest
By the way, my first husband lied to me about his sexual orientation. We were married outside of the Church, stayed married for 15 years, had one child, then he left me with $300,000 worth of debt so he could “be gay.” Now, I’m a remarried divorcee and the Catholic Church claims I did something wrong. No way. This whole situation of not letting remarried divorcees receive sacraments is an abomination and it’s just cruel. Just plain cruel.
Even if I was allowed to receive Holy Communion I’d probably be taking it from a homosexual, pedophile priest? You’ve got to be kidding me. Anyway, according to the parish priest I spoke to an annulment of the marriage would cost me around $1,200, so I’d have to pay dearly for my forgiveness–a very expensive indulgence I’d say.
Even if I was allowed to receive Holy Communion I’d probably be taking it from a homosexual, pedophile priest? You’ve got to be kidding me. Anyway, according to the parish priest I spoke to an annulment of the marriage would cost me around $1,200, so I’d have to pay dearly for my forgiveness–a very expensive indulgence I’d say.
C
Chatter163
Guest
I would echo every one of 1ke’s comments, particularly about “Flying into the arms of the first man who is ‘nice to you’.” It is way too soon after the first, and still-current, marriage.
In fact, by doing so, may raise the question of valdity of any possible second marriage. Divorce rates are very high for second marriages and with both parties being divorced, there is an awful lot of things that need to be examined and understood by both parties, lest their repeat their histories. It is not enough to simply speak how the other party wronged the spouse–that may very well be the case–but it is also necessary to examine the responses and actions of the other party and what caused him/her to make the decisions that were made.
Example: A young, working class woman and devout Catholic, marries a middle-class man of reasonable background. It turns out that he is, in fact, a heavy drinker and is not beyond verbally abusing his wife and even breaking household items, though he never hits his wife. He is also unfaithful to her on any number of occasions. She never drinks and is always faithful to him.
After two children and seventeen years of marriage, the same woman, now almost forty years old, realizes that this is not a tenable situation and files for divorce. Naturally, she tells of his drinking and related behavior, as well as his unfaithfulness, and truthfully admits that she has not committed any of these behaviors–quite the contrary, she has continued to go to Mass with her children every week.
But she has met someone else who treats her nicely, etc., and she wants to marry him. From a human perspective, the first problem is that she is going too quickly from one situation to another. She has had little time to pause and reflect about herself, who she is, what is important to her, how she arrived at the point where she is now. She made choices in her younger years that need to be revisited and reexamined. (This is to say nothing of the fact that she has a teenager and a younger child.)
By all accounts, she was right and her husband was wrong, and thus she is entited to move on and be happy with the new suitor. But wait a minute; she must take several years and learn some answers to questions.
—Why did she marry an excessive drinker? Naturally she will say that he did not begin drinking until later, but there are almost always signs of potential substance abuse beforehand, particularly where alcohol is involved, since it is a legal stimulant and does not need to be hidden. There were probably red flags that she either was too naive as a young woman to see, or that she chose to ignore for whatever reasons. In either case, a truthful (and sometimes painful) self-examination needs to take place, lest a recurrence take place. With her highly emotional state, she could easily make the same or similar mistake again, as people in such situations tend to repeat past behavior paterns.
—Why did she stay with someone who would get drunk and destroy the house? Why did she let her children see this behavior and not remove them from it until years had passed? She will probably say that as she matured, she realized that this was not acceptable behavior, whereas when she was a girl she had been conditioned to stand by her husband through troubles, etc. She had thought that he had at least not laid a hand on her of the children. She had been too young to assert herself. Maybe so, but she “gave a pass” and overlooked a great deal. Unless she examines this situation totally, her need for new companionship might well prompt her to do the same, only from a middle-aged perspective. This is part of why second marriage divorce rates are high.
—What common values did she have, if any, with her husband? Which values are so important to her that she would never compromise them, under any circumstances? This is particularly important when children are part of the picture.
Needless to say, the man that she intends to marry would need to ask the same questions of himself, regarding whatever situations in which he was involved. These questions need to be asked HONESTLY, and with an eye toward realizing that although one’s spouse may well have been an instigator of many problems, the other spouse probably made a string of poor decisions, and overlooked many things that helped the situation reach its current status. Family histories and worldviews must also be examined, as these are critical influences, as well.
Finally, the OP has already been intimate with someone else. Others have already pointed out the moral dilemas that this raises. But from a human perspective, when one is being intimate with someone else on a regular basis, that ABSOLUTELY influences the reflection and discernment process. It blinds one, or at least prevents one, from seeing the situation objectively. Surely the OP has gained enough life experience to recognize this reality? If she does not, then she is not being truthful to herself or anyone else. The fact that she,as a self-described evout Catholic, was prepared to marry in a Protestant church, suggests as much.
In fact, by doing so, may raise the question of valdity of any possible second marriage. Divorce rates are very high for second marriages and with both parties being divorced, there is an awful lot of things that need to be examined and understood by both parties, lest their repeat their histories. It is not enough to simply speak how the other party wronged the spouse–that may very well be the case–but it is also necessary to examine the responses and actions of the other party and what caused him/her to make the decisions that were made.
Example: A young, working class woman and devout Catholic, marries a middle-class man of reasonable background. It turns out that he is, in fact, a heavy drinker and is not beyond verbally abusing his wife and even breaking household items, though he never hits his wife. He is also unfaithful to her on any number of occasions. She never drinks and is always faithful to him.
After two children and seventeen years of marriage, the same woman, now almost forty years old, realizes that this is not a tenable situation and files for divorce. Naturally, she tells of his drinking and related behavior, as well as his unfaithfulness, and truthfully admits that she has not committed any of these behaviors–quite the contrary, she has continued to go to Mass with her children every week.
But she has met someone else who treats her nicely, etc., and she wants to marry him. From a human perspective, the first problem is that she is going too quickly from one situation to another. She has had little time to pause and reflect about herself, who she is, what is important to her, how she arrived at the point where she is now. She made choices in her younger years that need to be revisited and reexamined. (This is to say nothing of the fact that she has a teenager and a younger child.)
By all accounts, she was right and her husband was wrong, and thus she is entited to move on and be happy with the new suitor. But wait a minute; she must take several years and learn some answers to questions.
—Why did she marry an excessive drinker? Naturally she will say that he did not begin drinking until later, but there are almost always signs of potential substance abuse beforehand, particularly where alcohol is involved, since it is a legal stimulant and does not need to be hidden. There were probably red flags that she either was too naive as a young woman to see, or that she chose to ignore for whatever reasons. In either case, a truthful (and sometimes painful) self-examination needs to take place, lest a recurrence take place. With her highly emotional state, she could easily make the same or similar mistake again, as people in such situations tend to repeat past behavior paterns.
—Why did she stay with someone who would get drunk and destroy the house? Why did she let her children see this behavior and not remove them from it until years had passed? She will probably say that as she matured, she realized that this was not acceptable behavior, whereas when she was a girl she had been conditioned to stand by her husband through troubles, etc. She had thought that he had at least not laid a hand on her of the children. She had been too young to assert herself. Maybe so, but she “gave a pass” and overlooked a great deal. Unless she examines this situation totally, her need for new companionship might well prompt her to do the same, only from a middle-aged perspective. This is part of why second marriage divorce rates are high.
—What common values did she have, if any, with her husband? Which values are so important to her that she would never compromise them, under any circumstances? This is particularly important when children are part of the picture.
Needless to say, the man that she intends to marry would need to ask the same questions of himself, regarding whatever situations in which he was involved. These questions need to be asked HONESTLY, and with an eye toward realizing that although one’s spouse may well have been an instigator of many problems, the other spouse probably made a string of poor decisions, and overlooked many things that helped the situation reach its current status. Family histories and worldviews must also be examined, as these are critical influences, as well.
Finally, the OP has already been intimate with someone else. Others have already pointed out the moral dilemas that this raises. But from a human perspective, when one is being intimate with someone else on a regular basis, that ABSOLUTELY influences the reflection and discernment process. It blinds one, or at least prevents one, from seeing the situation objectively. Surely the OP has gained enough life experience to recognize this reality? If she does not, then she is not being truthful to herself or anyone else. The fact that she,as a self-described evout Catholic, was prepared to marry in a Protestant church, suggests as much.
P
palmas85
Guest
I’ll explain it to you then if that is what you are really looking for.The thing that I don’t understand about the church is how even after you have filed for divorce from a man who abused you and was a horrible husband and father and does not even belive in God himself, they expect you to act as his wife and stay faithful to him? To a man who mocked my going to Mass every sunday, mocked my prayer and denied me any other children, a man who went out wtih his friends and got drunk and did not come home. A man who now as we speak is certainly not “remaining faithful to me” or acting like he is still in a valid marriage. He cheated on me and I’m sorry but that to me is the end of the marriage. He is out doing his own thing bouncing from woman to woman, and I’m expected to act like I’m still married??? I have met a wonderful man who treats me with respect and is so sincere and Christ like. And by the way, I am NOT pregnant which is a relief believe me. But after meeting a wonderful person, I’m expected to stay away from him and still act married? For WHAT? I’m sorry but I can’t really understand how God himself would expect me to suffer alone and not be able to find another man. That just does not seem right. I love my faith but this really bothers me. This is what I am hearing from everyone…to stay close to Jesus and stay away from the boyfriend. I am so close to Jesus it’s not even funny and I feel HIM in EVERY waking moment of my life. More so now than I ever have, especailly since I got out of that horrible abusive marriage. Someone explain all this to me.
1 You are a married woman in the eyes of the Church and in the eyes of God. Period. .
If you are in fact a devout Catholic as you say then you already know this.
2 You don’t even have a civil divorce yet so in the eyes of the state you are still married. Double whammy
3 You have a boyfriend and are apparently having sex with him, . since you unequivically state that your husband has refused you any more children and I take that to mean he is not having sex with you. I too am glad that you are not pregnant. Now you need to stop having sex. Because if you continue it makes you an adultress in the eyes of the Church and in the eyes of God. I don’t say that in condemnation, I say it as a fact. That is just the way it is. Having a drunken, abusive, cheating and negligent spouse does not give you the right to engage in sexual relations or seek satisfaction in the arms of another man. If that were the case my mother would have been justified in having multiple affairs over the years. Sex outside of marriage is ALWAYS WRONG, NO EXCEPTIONS
If you are, as you state a devout Catholic then you know this also.
4 If you want to be married in the Catholic Church, you must have the marriage annulled and I am going out on a limb here. but I believe the man would have to have his annulled as well, because in the eyes of the Church he is still married also and could not engage in a sacramental marriage within the Church.
I have noticed as this thread moves on that you have become increasingly more descriptive of the horrors inflicted upon you in your marriage by your husband and yes he is still your husband. This looks to me and just to me mind you as an attempt to justify your behavior by saying he did these things first and he is at fault. He is definitely at fault by breaking his marriage vows.
But so are you, by breaking yours. Again I say that not in condemnation. It is simply a fact. Sorry, but it is.
I would advise you to seek and get an annullment, that is of course after you get divorced, stay away from any boyfriends until you are in fact single and available and then and only then get involved with another man. Preferably one who is also single and free to marry.
Were you really looking for someone to explain these things to you or were you looking for someone, anyone to say that what you are doing is all right due to the circumstances of the case?
G
GodLovesTheSpek
Guest
This all goes back to “see a Canon Lawyer”. That is the right thing to do. That is the answer. To debate much further may end up (intentionally or not) presenting an argument that supports what the OP may be trying to do. The situation is difficult as it is for many people. Tell them the truth and then let God do His work.
B
BayernAnhaenger
Guest
You’re not that devout. Especially if you would GO OUTSIDE THE CHURCH for a marriage.
Just to let you know.
B
BayernAnhaenger
Guest
Because… you’re still married to him, unless the Church annulment tribunal says your marriage was null/never existed.
C
Chatter163
Guest
There is no need to see a canon lawyer. She can simply make an appointment to see her pastor, who is normally the first point of contact for nullity cases.
G
GodLovesTheSpek
Guest
That advice was given in previous posts.
P
palmas85
Guest
I have noticed that you have become increasingly hostile and are now presenting other aspects of your husbands bad behavior in what appears to be an attempt to lessen your culpability for your actions. But still. if you really want someone to explain things to you I will.The thing that I don’t understand about the church is how even after you have filed for divorce from a man who abused you and was a horrible husband and father and does not even belive in God himself, they expect you to act as his wife and stay faithful to him? To a man who mocked my going to Mass every sunday, mocked my prayer and denied me any other children, a man who went out wtih his friends and got drunk and did not come home. **A man who now as we speak is certainly not “remaining faithful to me” or acting like he is still in a valid marriage. He cheated on me and I’m sorry but that to me is the end of the marriage. He is out doing his own thing bouncing from woman to woman, and I’m expected to act like I’m still married??? **I have met a wonderful man who treats me with respect and is so sincere and Christ like. And by the way, I am NOT pregnant which is a relief believe me. But after meeting a wonderful person, I’m expected to stay away from him and still act married? For WHAT? I’m sorry but I can’t really understand how God himself would expect me to suffer alone and not be able to find another man. That just does not seem right. I love my faith but this really bothers me. This is what I am hearing from everyone…to stay close to Jesus and stay away from the boyfriend. I am so close to Jesus it’s not even funny and I feel HIM in EVERY waking moment of my life. More so now than I ever have, especailly since I got out of that horrible abusive marriage. Someone explain all this to me.
You said even after you have filed for divorce from a man who abused you and was a horrible husband and father and does not even believe in God himself, they expect you to act as his wife and stay faithful to him"
Yes, as a matter of fact they do expect you to do so because you are still married to him whether you like it or not. Marriage is a forever situation except in certain circumstances. Believe it or not, The Church whether you like it or not, does not recognize civil divorce as binding. Even after a civil divorce, you are STILL married to him
However, you aren’t even legally divorced yet. So in both the eyes of the State and in the eyes of the Church you are still married. So yes. the annullment is not only necessary it is in fact mandatory if you want to re-marry.
If you are really a devout Catholic you know this already.
You said “My other issue is there is a possibility I may be pregnant. While this is wonderful news and a gift from God, I do not want to be unwed and pregnant.”
Since you had earlier stated that your husband refused to give you any more children, I must assume this pregnancy was caused by either the current lover or someone else. Being pregnant by a man not your husband and outside of a marriage is a gift from God???
I don’t really think that you will find a lot of support for that particular bit of modernist self serving attitude here but you might.
In any event, sex outside of marriage is
/B]ALWAYS WRONG, ALWAYS A SIN AND MUST BE AVOIDED
There are no exceptions, none not one. Sorry but that is just the way it is. I know that is not what you want to hear but it is the truth. I am relieved to hear that you are not pregnant, and I truly hope that you and your lover have stopped engaging in illicit sexual activity.
But you being a devout Catholic know that sex outside of marriage is a sin. You know it is a sin to do so.
You said "A man who now as we speak is certainly not “remaining faithful to me” or acting like he is still in a valid marriage. He cheated on me and I’m sorry but that to me is the end of the marriage. He is out doing his own thing bouncing from woman to woman, and I’m expected to act like I’m still married??? "
I don’t think I need to answer that question now do I? You know that his commission of a sin or of multiple sins does not in any way give you license to do the same thing, which incidentally, is exactly what you are doing, even if it is with just one other person.
But you already know that if you are as devout a Catholic as you say you are.
So I wonder are you really looking for answers or for someone to validate the choices you have made?
D
damooster
Guest
My following advice may not be popular, but it’s something I have personal experience with.
I know of a couple who were in a very similar situation as you (except the wife was not seeing someone else). The husband was very abusive, verbally and physically, and was on the road to becoming an alcoholic. He cheated on her several times as well. The wife, however, stayed with him because she realized that he had a problem, and she didn’t want to turn her back on him when he needed her most. He, however, actually filed for divorce from her and she agreed to it.
But she didn’t give up; she loved him so much that she was able to put her hurt aside to help him. And she did; she was able to get him to attend AA meetings and to see a counselor. There were some underlying issues that were causing his behavior, but through her love, and no doubt God’s intervention, he was able to quit drinking and stop being abusive. They never remarried but they remain as close as ever to this day.
Her love for him shone above all things, and she helped him instead of leaving him. It sounds like your divorce is going to happen. I pray that you find the strength, if you haven’t already done so, to try and help your husband, even if he hurt you in the past. And I think that’s one reason why the Church is going to hold you to the vows you made before God; “in sickness and in health.” Your husband is very sick right now and needs your help.
I’ll get off my soap box now. I’ll be praying for you and your husband.
I know of a couple who were in a very similar situation as you (except the wife was not seeing someone else). The husband was very abusive, verbally and physically, and was on the road to becoming an alcoholic. He cheated on her several times as well. The wife, however, stayed with him because she realized that he had a problem, and she didn’t want to turn her back on him when he needed her most. He, however, actually filed for divorce from her and she agreed to it.
But she didn’t give up; she loved him so much that she was able to put her hurt aside to help him. And she did; she was able to get him to attend AA meetings and to see a counselor. There were some underlying issues that were causing his behavior, but through her love, and no doubt God’s intervention, he was able to quit drinking and stop being abusive. They never remarried but they remain as close as ever to this day.
Her love for him shone above all things, and she helped him instead of leaving him. It sounds like your divorce is going to happen. I pray that you find the strength, if you haven’t already done so, to try and help your husband, even if he hurt you in the past. And I think that’s one reason why the Church is going to hold you to the vows you made before God; “in sickness and in health.” Your husband is very sick right now and needs your help.
I’ll get off my soap box now. I’ll be praying for you and your husband.
T
Titus
Guest
To the OP- you are in my prayers. It sounds like you are in a very tough situation indeed. This is your cross to bear, uniting yourself with Our Lord- you are not free to marry this man unless you receive a Decree of Nullity. You don’t have to stay living with your husband, but please pray for him. He needs it more than you do, it sounds like.
God bless
God bless
- Status