Traditional Benedictines in Canada

[Bebekoualy]

Has any of you heard of the foundation in Quebec, Canada, of traditional nuns?
Well all I know about Québec is that there aren’t many Benedictines there and the only few refuse to get a Tridentine mass.
Isn’t that a good news? Well I am wondering who would be keen on knowing more about the subject.

 

[jumpfrog]

I too am a Canadian woman interested in Benedictine life…but there are only a few communities, as I am sure you have discovered.

I had a warm recommendation from a priest about the nuns in Quebec. The community is Francophone

The only other cloistered Benedictine women in Canada would be the Trappestines in NB, which are, I think, bilingual.

There are Benedictine sisters in MB and BC, but they seem to live a rather secular lifestyle…

 

[OraLabora]

Has any of you heard of the foundation in Quebec, Canada, of traditional nuns?
Well all I know about Québec is that there aren’t many Benedictines there and the only few refuse to get a Tridentine mass.
Isn’t that a good news? Well I am wondering who would be keen on knowing more about the subject.

Now hold on here. This is insulting to Benedictines. There are several Benedictine monasteries in Quebec, 3 of women, 1 of men. Of the one of men, I am an oblate. We use the Ordinary Form Mass but it is sung in Gregorian chant. The hours of Lauds and Vespers are sung in Gregorian chant.

The nuns in Deux-Montagnes, near Montreal, do the entire Office in Latin. But their Mass is the Ordinary Form, also in Latin with Gregorian chant.

Benedictine foundations are independent. They are free to use whatever Office they want within the context of the Rule of St. Benedict. The women near Montreal use the original Benedictine schema in its post-Vatican II adaptations. The men, of which I belong, use a post-Vatican II Office but do all 150 psalms in a single week.

There are very few Benedictines in the world using the Tridentine Mass. The Benedictines of my congregation, Solesmes, are very conservative and holy men but they give 100% obedience to the Holy Father (the women near Montreal are of the same congregation). Elsewhere in the world I know of 2 monasteries in France, one in Italy and one in the US using the Tridentine form. The others use the Ordinary Form. It is the prerogative of the Abbot in consultation with his community to decide which form and which Office to use, not the personal preferences of the laity.

Please try to learn more about the Benedictines of Quebec and adjust your attitude towards them. They are very holy men and women who have given up their lives to God and have very beautiful chanted liturgies in Gregorian chant. The form of Mass is not an issue of refusal, it’s an issue of choice to fit the needs of the community.

After Vatican II the monks were obliged to eliminate the distinction between choir monks and lay brothers in order to return to the original charism of the Rule of St. Benedict; they were all absorbed into the main community as professed monks, and there are very few of them. Monk-priests are obliged to say mass once a day, and they cannot concelebrate in the Tridentine form. Therefore they would all have to have their private Masses. There are only 40 of them, they all have to participate in running the monastery. To have several Masses a day would be disruptive to their routine. Therefore they concelebrate one Mass a day (plus they have a 6 am said Mass for monks who will be away or too busy in the fields to go to the 11 am conventual Mass), so they all have time to do their daily tasks. They do it beautifully with sung Gregorian propers and ordinary in Latin (except for the Greek Kyrie of course), and the rest in French plainchant.

As for the nuns they will have their own reasons and it’s entirely their prerogative to decide on how to carry out their liturgies within the boundaries of the Rule and the Church.

There’s more to running a monastery than the Mass!

Why don’t you come and see for yourself at Saint-Benoit-du-Lac? It might change your attitude towards the Ordinary Form Mass.

 

[Bebekoualy]

Now hold on here. This is insulting to Benedictines. There are several Benedictine monasteries in Quebec, 3 of women, 1 of men. Of the one of men, I am an oblate. We use the Ordinary Form Mass but it is sung in Gregorian chant. The hours of Lauds and Vespers are sung in Gregorian chant.

The nuns in Deux-Montagnes, near Montreal, do the entire Office in Latin. But their Mass is the Ordinary Form, also in Latin with Gregorian chant.

Benedictine foundations are independent. They are free to use whatever Office they want within the context of the Rule of St. Benedict. The women near Montreal use the original Benedictine schema in its post-Vatican II adaptations. The men, of which I belong, use a post-Vatican II Office but do all 150 psalms in a single week.

There are very few Benedictines in the world using the Tridentine Mass. The Benedictines of my congregation, Solesmes, are very conservative and holy men but they give 100% obedience to the Holy Father (the women near Montreal are of the same congregation). Elsewhere in the world I know of 2 monasteries in France, one in Italy and one in the US using the Tridentine form. The others use the Ordinary Form. It is the prerogative of the Abbot in consultation with his community to decide which form and which Office to use, not the personal preferences of the laity.

Please try to learn more about the Benedictines of Quebec and adjust your attitude towards them. They are very holy men and women who have given up their lives to God and have very beautiful chanted liturgies in Gregorian chant. The form of Mass is not an issue of refusal, it’s an issue of choice to fit the needs of the community.

After Vatican II the monks were obliged to eliminate the distinction between choir monks and lay brothers in order to return to the original charism of the Rule of St. Benedict; they were all absorbed into the main community as professed monks, and there are very few of them. Monk-priests are obliged to say mass once a day, and they cannot concelebrate in the Tridentine form. Therefore they would all have to have their private Masses. There are only 40 of them, they all have to participate in running the monastery. To have several Masses a day would be disruptive to their routine. Therefore they concelebrate one Mass a day (plus they have a 6 am said Mass for monks who will be away or too busy in the fields to go to the 11 am conventual Mass), so they all have time to do their daily tasks. They do it beautifully with sung Gregorian propers and ordinary in Latin (except for the Greek Kyrie of course), and the rest in French plainchant.

As for the nuns they will have their own reasons and it’s entirely their prerogative to decide on how to carry out their liturgies within the boundaries of the Rule and the Church.

There’s more to running a monastery than the Mass!

Why don’t you come and see for yourself at Saint-Benoit-du-Lac? It might change your attitude towards the Ordinary Form Mass.

I didn’t want to sound insulting. I know about the situation in Canada. I also know Sainte Marie des Deux Montagnes asked for a Tridentine Mass and the Mother House refused it to them. Isn’t that sad? I’ve been all round France, Kergonan, Solesmes, etc. They all have the beautiful Paul VI’s mass in Latin, but none will take the Tridentine Mas, whereas Fongombault has done it, and they’re doing so well and got so much more vocations. Same for Clear Creek, who manage so well with their Low Mass and Sung Mass daily.

We are allowed to be traditionalistic if we want, I’m not insulting the Benedictines, I know them too well and am very keen on them.

But only le Barroux, Jouques and Rosans in France have a daily TLM, but it’s unfair no feminine community that is Benedictine, of the Solesmes congregation have it.

And I heard about this project in Quebec to found a Benedictine monastery with Tridentine mass.

 

[OraLabora]

I didn’t want to sound insulting. I know about the situation in Canada. I also know Sainte Marie des Deux Montagnes asked for a Tridentine Mass and the Mother House refused it to them. Isn’t that sad? I’ve been all round France, Kergonan, Solesmes, etc. They all have the beautiful Paul VI’s mass in Latin, but none will take the Tridentine Mas, whereas Fongombault has done it, and they’re doing so well and got so much more vocations. Same for Clear Creek, who manage so well with their Low Mass and Sung Mass daily.

We are allowed to be traditionalistic if we want, I’m not insulting the Benedictines, I know them too well and am very keen on them.

But only le Barroux, Jouques and Rosans in France have a daily TLM, but it’s unfair no feminine community that is Benedictine, of the Solesmes congregation have it.

And I heard about this project in Quebec to found a Benedictine monastery with Tridentine mass.

You have to understand that for Benedictines, obedience is everything. I know the chaplain at Ste-Marie. He is from St-Benoît-du-Lac. He was the choirmaster of the choir I belong to and he taught me Gregorian Chant. Very orthodox. But he’s also in his 80s and in fragile health. That might be one of the reasons for the refusal (if there was one; I’m not that close to that community).

In any case the Solesmes congregation does a very beautiful Ordinary Form Mass in Gregorian chant. The differences with the Tridentine are not so noticeable.

I’m not sure that the vocations at Fontgombault is entirely related to the Tridentine Mass. I know someone who was a former novice there. I think it might also have to do with a stricter observance of the Rule of St. Benedict. There’s more to a monastery than just the Mass.

 

[Bebekoualy]

You have to understand that for Benedictines, obedience is everything. I know the chaplain at Ste-Marie. He is from St-Benoît-du-Lac. He was the choirmaster of the choir I belong to and he taught me Gregorian Chant. Very orthodox. But he’s also in his 80s and in fragile health. That might be one of the reasons for the refusal (if there was one; I’m not that close to that community).

In any case the Solesmes congregation does a very beautiful Ordinary Form Mass in Gregorian chant. The differences with the Tridentine are not so noticeable.

I’m not sure that the vocations at Fontgombault is entirely related to the Tridentine Mass. I know someone who was a former novice there. I think it might also have to do with a stricter observance of the Rule of St. Benedict. There’s more to a monastery than just the Mass.

Well the difference isn’t noticeable as it is a sung mass, but the traditionalists know the difference and have a deeper love for the* usus antiquor*. And it’s nothing against the Pope: thanks to Summorum Pontificum the old mass can be said.
For the traditional Catholics, it’s very important. And there’s getting to be more and more fo these people, and it’s unfair they must travel so far to find a monastery that accepts a TLM.

 

[OraLabora]

Well the difference isn’t noticeable as it is a sung mass, but the traditionalists know the difference and have a deeper love for the* usus antiquor*. And it’s nothing against the Pope: thanks to Summorum Pontificum the old mass can be said.
For the traditional Catholics, it’s very important. And there’s getting to be more and more fo these people, and it’s unfair they must travel so far to find a monastery that accepts a TLM.

It’s not a question of “fairness”. Benedictines run their own communities as they see fit. They don’t owe us anything in the form of liturgy, they adapt it to their own needs, not ours. The ultimate decision on which form to use resides with the abbot or abbess. The use of the EF is exceptional, for some of the reasons I listed.

We should be thankful that they do have in Quebec beautiful liturgies that have preserved Gregorian chant. For the size of the population in Quebec, to have two monasteries using Gregorian chant daily is a huge blessing.

 

[OraLabora]

Well the difference isn’t noticeable as it is a sung mass, but the traditionalists know the difference and have a deeper love for the* usus antiquor*. And it’s nothing against the Pope: thanks to Summorum Pontificum the old mass can be said.
For the traditional Catholics, it’s very important. And there’s getting to be more and more fo these people, and it’s unfair they must travel so far to find a monastery that accepts a TLM.

I should add, in Summorum Pontificum, unlike in parishes the laity have no say in whether the EF Mass can be said:

Communities of Institutes of consecrated life and of Societies of apostolic life of either pontifical or diocesan right, wishing to celebrate Mass in accordance with the edition of the Roman Missal promulgated in 1962, for conventual or “community” celebration in their oratories, may do so. For a community or an entire Institute or Society to do so permanently, the major superior must decide in accordance with canon law and statutes of the Institute or Society. (Article 3)

For Benedictines, it really isn’t any of our business as laity. As an oblate, I have no say in the liturgy of the abbey I’m associated with. If I don’t like it, I’m free to disassociate myself.

I’m not sure if you’re looking for purposes of vocation, to become oblate, or just to attend Mass there, but I can tell you that the form of the Mass will be a very small part of the vocation, and one really needs to examine the call. If the only reason to choose a monastery is the form of the Mass, you’ll likely be found out and rejected by the community. When you join a monastery you are joining a community; it has to be a good fit all around, and the community gets to vote on who gets to make simple and solemn profession. The vocation has to be thorough and deep and embrace all aspects of community life, and the main purpose has to be finding God in a contemplative community.

You may find, for instance, that while you prefer the EF Mass, a community using the OF is overall a much better fit.

The reality is that in Quebec no Benedictines celebrate the EF. In France you may have more luck, but note the above. But that doesn’t mean you won’t find traditional Benedictine values in Quebec. Both Saint-Benoît-du-Lac and Ste-Marie-des-Deux-Montagnes are very orthodox and conservative communities.

 

[benedicta1]

I read the comments from Ora and Labora. I am sorry to tell you that the mother abess from Ste Marie wanted the latin traditional mass but the abbot from Solemnes refused it to her! She said to a girl that she would get tridentine mass and she detracted herself after
the girl entered there. This girl would have probably entered there anyway, but the problem for her is that got upset after her when she ask when it would happen or if she was talking about priests of society st Peter for exemple. If this girl would have not expected it because the abess told her she would get the other mass, then there would have had no problem! The true would have been beter!
Instead she brought a vocation on false discenment . The same thing, about cloister. The abess told to the mother of this girl that the The abbess said the mother of that girl the gates in the fence would be changed and contacts more accessible by a short time. But the girl’s mother asked at each visit when this would happen … but the abbess was not happy with the postulant because of these requests. She even criticized his lack of love in the grid so that it is the abbess who gave these expectations to the mother of this girl!

I have no doubt about sanctity of Benedictines, but there are problems at Ste Mary benedictines!
I will not say bad things because there are still holy women. However, young vocations do not stay! In over 20 years, no young person has remained! There is a problem. The only vocations that are there come from the States and they are de girls that the States sister do not want to keep for health reasons. The first problem is that show to the girls interessted a life that is not the reality once they enter there. IF they would say the real things, the young postulants would not have unpleasant surprises and would choose life in truth and acceptance of all the sacrifices demanded.

I have known and heard of at least four girls who were in these sisters. The abbess is probably a saint. But a saint who no longer have a good balance. This does not detract from the holiness, but the reality of the problem is still there! She invented the so-called vocations that are coming … while one of them told me that she never intended to go when this thing was called. I will not give you the list here, but there are disordehers and especially a lot of manipulation! Religious life must be lived in truth, not in inventions or manipulations. But the truth frees manipulation does not lead to a `free life, instead it causes disorder, fear of telling the truth, etc…

I sincerly think that Quebec needs an other foundation of benedictines in truth . And here
I am not telling you the worst thing that happened! This too would shock some people. Tell you that in this case silence is perhaps better.

 

[LightBound]

I read the comments from Ora and Labora. I am sorry to tell you that the mother abess from Ste Marie wanted the latin traditional mass but the abbot from Solemnes refused it to her! She said to a girl that she would get tridentine mass and she detracted herself after
the girl entered there. This girl would have probably entered there anyway, but the problem for her is that got upset after her when she ask when it would happen or if she was talking about priests of society st Peter for exemple. If this girl would have not expected it because the abess told her she would get the other mass, then there would have had no problem! The true would have been beter!
Instead she brought a vocation on false discenment . The same thing, about cloister. The abess told to the mother of this girl that the The abbess said the mother of that girl the gates in the fence would be changed and contacts more accessible by a short time. But the girl’s mother asked at each visit when this would happen … but the abbess was not happy with the postulant because of these requests. She even criticized his lack of love in the grid so that it is the abbess who gave these expectations to the mother of this girl!

I have no doubt about sanctity of Benedictines, but there are problems at Ste Mary benedictines!
I will not say bad things because there are still holy women. However, young vocations do not stay! In over 20 years, no young person has remained! There is a problem. The only vocations that are there come from the States and they are de girls that the States sister do not want to keep for health reasons. The first problem is that show to the girls interessted a life that is not the reality once they enter there. IF they would say the real things, the young postulants would not have unpleasant surprises and would choose life in truth and acceptance of all the sacrifices demanded.

I have known and heard of at least four girls who were in these sisters. The abbess is probably a saint. But a saint who no longer have a good balance. This does not detract from the holiness, but the reality of the problem is still there! She invented the so-called vocations that are coming … while one of them told me that she never intended to go when this thing was called. I will not give you the list here, but there are disordehers and especially a lot of manipulation! Religious life must be lived in truth, not in inventions or manipulations. But the truth frees manipulation does not lead to a `free life, instead it causes disorder, fear of telling the truth, etc…

I sincerly think that Quebec needs an other foundation of benedictines in truth . And here
I am not telling you the worst thing that happened! This too would shock some people. Tell you that in this case silence is perhaps better.

I realize French is probably your first language (and you do English very well), but “girls” in English are children. It would be like saying "all those boys that are entering the seminary or becoming monks. I would hope that it’s young men and not boys beginning those vocations. Young women is a good choice if you are looking at those 16-35 or simply “women” if you are describing a group that would include females that might be over 35 or so.

 

[OraLabora]

I don’t think it’s a good idea to publicly identify a specific abbey and discuss their internal problems. It’s a bit like posting a family quarrel on-line and identifying the family.

 

[april32010]

sincerly think that Quebec needs an other foundation of benedictines in truth . And here
I am not telling you the worst thing that happened! This too would shock some people. Tell you that in this case silence is perhaps better

silence would be better,you are here less than one day,and you have already insulted  religious not a good start

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[benedicta1]

Well, My message was taken out. I just want to say that you shall not recommand a community here as a traditional community when it is not traditional. Ora and Labora shall not recommand it here but in an other forum. Those benedictines are not traditionnal and peoples from tradition shall know it. because some women had big deception because of false information about it.

 

[benedicta1]

I also think that ora and Labora shall publicise his messages on mass somewhere else. Here is traditional forum and my message would have not been taken out if there was not those messages about mass. Please respect the traditional forum and make publicity on new mass somwhere else. I only wanted to advise about a sad reality of two vocations who lost time in a community that was not what it was telling to women. Thuth about a realty to take care about, is not a critic, but an advise and a sad reality. PLEASE do not publish some community as traditional when they are not. Mass is not the only thing about it.

 

[OraLabora]

I also think that ora and Labora shall publicise his messages on mass somewhere else. Here is traditional forum and my message would have not been taken out if there was not those messages about mass. Please respect the traditional forum and make publicity on new mass somwhere else. I only wanted to advise about a sad reality of two vocations who lost time in a community that was not what it was telling to women. Thuth about a realty to take care about, is not a critic, but an advise and a sad reality. PLEASE do not publish some community as traditional when they are not. Mass is not the only thing about it.

Madam, I have not said anything disparaging about the EF Mass. I have explained why the form of the Mass in a Benedictine house is none of our business. If you don’t like the community then you’re under no obligation to join them, and if. This is a discussion forum and Tradition is more than just the Mass. This is a discussion forum. If you are uncomfortable opinions different than yours suggest you find another forum. .

I would point out the forum rules that were pointed out above, it is against forum rules to specifically name a religious community and criticize them.

 

[Melchior_1]

Well, My message was taken out. I just want to say that you shall not recommand a community here as a traditional community when it is not traditional. Ora and Labora shall not recommand it here but in an other forum. Those benedictines are not traditionnal and peoples from tradition shall know it. because some women had big deception because of false information about it.

They may not be “traditional” in the sense they aren’t using the EF, but they might be traditional Benedictines.

I also think that ora and Labora shall publicise his messages on mass somewhere else.

He can post the information here because this is the Traditional Catholicism section, and he’s posting about traditional Benedictine practices, which wouldn’t you know have to do with Catholicism.

Also, it’d help if you got his name right.

 

[OraLabora]

Well, My message was taken out. I just want to say that you shall not recommand a community here as a traditional community when it is not traditional. Ora and Labora shall not recommand it here but in an other forum. Those benedictines are not traditionnal and peoples from tradition shall know it. because some women had big deception because of false information about it.

Your post was taken out because it broke a forum rule agains publicly naming and criticizing a religious community, and you’re doing it again. Please refrain from making disparaging comments about specific Benedictine community on the forum.

 

[benedicta1]

I am not saying somthing bad! I just say that they are not traditional as the traditionalist people mean it dans we shall not make them thing they are traditional when they are not. this is what i said and wanted to say by my sentence. please stop judging me bad.

 

[Melchior_1]

I am not saying somthing bad! I just say that they are not traditional as the traditionalist people mean it dans we shall not make them thing they are traditional when they are not. this is what i said and wanted to say by my sentence. please stop judging me bad.

My friend, if you can’t catch the ball, don’t throw it. You slammed a whole community of Benedictines, then you expect no one to say anything? Especially when someone here might actually know them? Why, that sounds like a capital idea!

 

[benedicta1]

I did not slam a community. I only wanted to say the true. This is not a traditional community as the traditionalist say it. Also, I only said true things! Is it so bad to advise traditional women that this is not a traditional community with tridentine mass! No, I think it is a charity because somme communities try to catch vocations without saying who they really are. AND I MENTION NO COMMUNITY’ ’ i say it as it is and even some nuns recognize it. It happens and we have to be knowing it. Then we choose in truth and knowledge. And I do not aim a community.