Traditional Catholic/Orthodox Catholic

  • Thread starter Thread starter JW55
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Cecilianus said:
Keep in mind that the Novus Ordo is not one of the 22 rites of the Church, however; historically, the Roman Rite refers to the Tridentine Mass.
Click to expand...
I suppose you should inform Pope Benedict of this, since he was the one who declared that the Extraordinary Form and the Ordinary Form are two expressions of the same rite.
 
Timothysis said:
I suppose you should inform Pope Benedict of this, since he was the one who declared that the Extraordinary Form and the Ordinary Form are two expressions of the same rite.
Click to expand...
Maybe there’s some sort of invisible unity, then, 'cause I don’t see any similarity.🤷
 
m134e5 said:
Sedevacantists, because they do not acknowledge the Pope- who makes the Catholic Faith unique and has done so for many centuries, are neither traditional, nor are they Catholic
Click to expand...
what if the Pope is currupt? are we to follow him then?
 
ElizabethT09 said:
what if the Pope is currupt? are we to follow him then?
Click to expand...
Since history has reviled Savonarola as a heretic rather than a martyr, yes. We are to follow the post-Vatican II aftermath for the same reason that the Church followed and obeyed Alexander VI.
 
Timothysis said:
You, also, are not the pope, either. Why not defer to those in the appropriate seats of authority?
Click to expand...
I was being snide - the remark I made was a rather inappropriate attitude for a Christian to take. Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

Though I still don’t see how the NO could be said to be a full expression of the Roman Rite - looks like a partial edition.
 
Cecilianus said:
I was being snide - the remark I made was a rather inappropriate attitude for a Christian to take. Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

Though I still don’t see how the NO could be said to be a full expression of the Roman Rite - looks like a partial edition.
Click to expand...
What makes you think that “less prayers = less expression?” The Missal of Pope Paul VI is the current Roman Missal. It isn’t any more or any less of the Roman Rite than anything else that has gone before. The bare minimum of the Mass is the consecration of the Eucharist (this is my body, this is my blood); everything else is just an accent to that action. How can a Mass that validly consecrates the body and blood of Our Lord Jesus Christ somehow be a “partial edition?” The reason of the Mass is to sanctify our souls. The flowery prayers before and after Mass, that aren’t even technically a part of the Mass though many here consider them indispensable, doesn’t somehow make Christ *more *present. What more do you require for Mass to be “a full expression of the Roman Rite?”
 
I think most Catholics, unless they’re Liberal Catholics or Cafeteria Catholics view themselves as being obedient to Church teachings.

Conservative Catholics often describe themselves as being orthodox, which means they adhere to the teachings of the Church hierarchy with regard to faith and morals.

Traditional Catholics also adhere to the teachings of the Church unless they view something as being contrary to Church Tradition.
 
Timothysis said:
What makes you think that “less prayers = less expression?” The Missal of Pope Paul VI is the current Roman Missal. It isn’t any more or any less of the Roman Rite than anything else that has gone before. The bare minimum of the Mass is the consecration of the Eucharist (this is my body, this is my blood); everything else is just an accent to that action. How can a Mass that validly consecrates the body and blood of Our Lord Jesus Christ somehow be a “partial edition?” The reason of the Mass is to sanctify our souls. The flowery prayers before and after Mass, that aren’t even technically a part of the Mass though many here consider them indispensable, doesn’t somehow make Christ *more *present. What more do you require for Mass to be "a full expression of the Roman Rite?"
Click to expand...
Because the NO Mass has been chopped up, truncated, mistranslated, artificially reconstructed and mixed up. You can validly say Mass with only the words “This is my Body” and “This is the chalice of my blood” (and maybe even less, since the English NO doesn’t even have the word “chalice”). Nobody would say that that’s the full expression of the Roman Rite. Nothing else in the Mass makes Christ “more present”. What I require for the Mass to be a full expression of the Roman Rite is precisely the fullness of the Roman tradition. The Byzantines have the same Eucharist that we do; what makes their Rite different is the liturgical context they put it in. By “Rite” I mean the liturgy, which does not simply consist of a Eucharist consecration or the “accent to that action” but rather the whole, integral manner in which the Faith of the Church is transmitted.
 
Jacafamala said:
I think most Catholics, unless they’re Liberal Catholics or Cafeteria Catholics view themselves as being obedient to Church teachings.

Conservative Catholics often describe themselves as being orthodox, which means they adhere to the teachings of the Church hierarchy with regard to faith and morals.

Traditional Catholics also adhere to the teachings of the Church unless they view something as being contrary to Church Tradition.
Click to expand...
Lex crendendi, lex orendi. How can you maintain “orthodoxy” while disregarding the integrity of the manner in which the Faith was practiced for at least 1300 years?
 
Cecilianus said:
Lex crendendi, lex orendi. How can you maintain “orthodoxy” while disregarding the integrity of the manner in which the Faith was practiced for at least 1300 years?
Click to expand...
Come again? Whom exactly are you referring to?
 
Jacafamala said:
Come again? Whom exactly are you referring to?
Click to expand...
Neo-conservatives, especially charismatics.

People who try to be “orthodox” but practice Catholicism the same way they had practiced Evangelical Protestantism, without much of a visible difference.

Also, “Hebrew Catholics” (although they’re problematic for other reasons - see Chrysostom for that).
 
Cecilianus said:
Neo-conservatives, especially charismatics.

People who try to be “orthodox” but practice Catholicism the same way they had practiced Evangelical Protestantism, without much of a visible difference.

Also, “Hebrew Catholics” (although they’re problematic for other reasons - see Chrysostom for that).
Click to expand...
Ah, Ok. But I don’t think these people really fit neatly into the Neo-Conservative camp. Sincere, yes. They are sincere. But they have one foot in Catholicism and the other in something else.

Conservatives believe in 100% obedience to the Magisterium.
 
moon1234 said:
To the original poster:

I think it depends on who you ask for the definitions. If you ask someone who attends only the Novus Ordo you will get different answers than from someone who attends only the Eastern rites or Tridentine Latin Rite Mass.

Most people who attend the Tridentine Mass primarily will identify a Traditional Catholic as someone who holds to the teachings as they were before Vatican II. This same group of people would most likely think of Eastern Orthodox when you ask about Orthodox. Most Catholics in this group would also assume that Eastern Orthodox are NOT Catholic, but are recognized as having valid apostolic succession.

The average Novus Ordo attendee would have no clue about 99% of what I just stated. There are a few, like the ones on this board, who would know the difference. Most average NO attendees though know very little to nothing about the history of their faith.

If you were to ask an Eastern Orthodox church memeber these same questions you would most likely get a completely different set of answers.

When you hear “Traditional Catholic” in the media, they are usually referring to those Catholics who hold to the teachings as they were before VII and who attend the Tridentine Mass.

Hope that helped and without the polemics.
Click to expand...
it is only fair to assume that after VII, Catholics could not be well educated since the Mass was being changed into something else. that is why they have no clue about the Traditional Mass. the Mass that is so beautifull. yet many of us have no access to it because of the liberals has gotten a hold of the Church.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top