Traditional Catholicism and Masculinity - Not Feeling Manly Enough

[sonoftherosary]

I have low self-esteem, and I don’t really feel very manly, I have so much shame and embarrassment about myself. When I see someone like Dr. Taylor Marshall or Timothy Gordon, they represent the ideal masculine Catholic Traditional men. They are really muscular, and Dr. Marshall is really handsome and has eight or nine kids with a beautiful wife, and he also practices Brazilian jiu jitsu. He has a beautiful life with an awesome family, but when I watch him on YouTube, I feel so small. I’m super skinny, and I have a very high pitched voice. I don’t really do many physical activities because after work I feel so exhausted I just want to sleep. I can’t really fix things around the house. I tend to get offended very easily and I hold grudges… I just feel like a loser, and I feel guilty for talking about my feelings because that isn’t really manly either. I’m worried that God isn’t pleased with me… or maybe I am not working hard enough for God. How do I get over my sadness?

 

[ImQuiet]

I’m super skinny, and I have a very high pitched voice. I don’t really do many physical activities because after work I feel so exhausted I just want to sleep. I can’t really fix things around the house. I tend to get offended very easily and I hold grudges… I just feel like a loser, and I feel guilty for talking about my feelings because that isn’t really manly either.

I’m kind of in a similar boat. I’m like 6ft tall and 125 pounds, I’m a terrible handyman and I’m a rather emotional person as well. I don’t want to sound arrogant or anything, but I’ve never considered myself a loser because I’m a small person or because I’m not good at some traditionally masculine activities.
That’s all totally fine. You’re not less of a man because you get offended or you’re not some martial arts prodigy. God certainly isn’t disappointed because you’re not part of a conventional standard.

To me, masculinity is simply the idea of imitating Jesus, rather than any physical definition.

If you want to get physically stronger, that’s a fine thing to shoot for. But comparing yourself to others isn’t a healthy way to go about it.

It’s really late here, so I’m sure someone will come up with a better answer. But masculinity isn’t a physical thing.

 

[Theban]

Well, you seem to know your own weaknesses well, so I suggest trying to work on improving on those areas. It’s not very healthy to compare yourself to others, especially not others the way they seem on social media.
If you want to feel better about yourself then there’s no easy or quick way to do it. You need to get out of your comfort zone, you need to put in hard work and effort, and improve yourself.

I don’t really do many physical activities because after work I feel so exhausted I just want to sleep. I can’t really fix things around the house. I tend to get offended very easily and I hold grudges…

This seems like a good place to start. Don’t care about your voice or the way you look, if anyone has a problem with those things then that’s their problem, not yours. As a man you should improve these areas that you listed though. Find a way to overcome your exhaustion. Try to fix something even if you don’t know how (within reason). Learn how to let go of your pride. Make self-improvement a part of your lifestyle.

 

[twf]

Everyone, men and women, should strive to be physically healthy, but it’s definitely not at all Church teaching that a man must be athletic…or particularly muscular. Nor is a man required to be a handyman. Everyone has different skill sets.

 

[Emeraldlady]

I have low self-esteem, and I don’t really feel very manly, I have so much shame and embarrassment about myself. When I see someone like Dr. Taylor Marshall or Timothy Gordon, they represent the ideal masculine Catholic Traditional men. They are really muscular, and Dr. Marshall is really handsome and has eight or nine kids with a beautiful wife, and he also practices Brazilian jiu jitsu. He has a beautiful life with an awesome family, but when I watch him on YouTube, I feel so small. I’m super skinny, and I have a very high pitched voice. I don’t really do many physical activities because after work I feel so exhausted I just want to sleep. I can’t really fix things around the house. I tend to get offended very easily and I hold grudges… I just feel like a loser, and I feel guilty for talking about my feelings because that isn’t really manly either. I’m worried that God isn’t pleased with me… or maybe I am not working hard enough for God. How do I get over my sadness?

Is someone in your life telling you aren’t manly enough for those reasons or are you just getting that feeling from reading the Trads online?

Some people have the false idea that wealth and power are signs of godliness. That is so so false. Get away from those types. Some of the most inspiring Saints have been fragile and odd. St Gerard Majella. Francis of Assisi. I know there are so many more.

Cut ties and links with people that push that agenda. They really tick me off to be honest.

 

[po18guy]

'If" you have psych issues, deal with them or you will be miserable as Christian, atheist or whatever.

Want a manly example? Fr. Larry Richards preaches some dynamite men’s retreats.

 

[tonyh12]

If you are depressed you may benefit from medical help, prayers for all who have low self esteem issues (including myself on occasions) Take care.

 

[Phillip_Rolfes]

The only man you should be looking to as an example of ideal Catholic masculinity is Jesus Christ. Muscularity, a handsome face, a sharp mind… all these things pass with age. When your life and identity are rooted in Christ, you soon find that none of those other things matter.

Don’t let yourself get caught up in appearances. Muscles, money, the need for external beauty - these things are often symptomatic of the need to fill a deeper emptiness. Not saying Marshall and Gordon are like this. Just pointing out they they are “accidentals” at best, and smokescreens at worst.

This need among many men to aggressively assert some sort of “traditional” masculinity bothers me quite a bit. I’ve seen Marshal and others talk about how manly men even wear specific types of clothes. Seriously? My clothes make me a man? Please.

Focus on Christ. Read and meditate on the Scriptures. Work to conform your life to Christ’s. That’s where you’ll find authentic Catholic (and traditional) masculinity. Nothing else matters.

(And this is coming from a man who is married to a beautiful woman, has four amazing kids, is anything but muscular [or skinny], often struggles with self-esteem issues, and prefers to spend his days in his pajamas… )

 

[AdamP88]

I don’t really do many physical activities because after work I feel so exhausted I just want to sleep.

You know that when you do exercise, endorphin and adrenaline levels boost your mood and energy levels. Regular exercise helps you not feel lethargic. Try forcing yourself to do a short run every other day. Or even an intense aerobic workout. I would almost bet cash that you’ll begin to feel better.

I can’t really fix things around the house.

The only way to learn is to give it a try. Same with car maintenance etc. You only learn by watching youtube videos and giving it a try. I broke my own car once when doing maintenance.
But I learned how to disconnect a battery properly and will never make that mistake again. Nobody has infused knowledge in this area.

I tend to get offended very easily and I hold grudges…

That’s something you just have to work on and pray about.

I feel guilty for talking about my feelings because that isn’t really manly either.

Who told you this? I’m plenty manly…I workout, I do sports, I fix stuff around the house. And guess what…I talk about my feelings a lot. Real men should be capable of being vulnerable, especially with the ones they love. I wouldn’t be a good husband if I didn’t make an effort to communicate my feelings to my wife. It’s essential to be able to talk about your feelings. Men just do it and process their feelings in a different way from women.

 

[AdamP88]

If you want to get physically stronger, that’s a fine thing to shoot for. But comparing yourself to others isn’t a healthy way to go about it.

Yeah, because some people are naturally more built in the upper body area than others. There’s only so far working out will get you. Though I was a skinny, lanky teenager, and didn’t do much exercise I developed a bit more bulk as I approached 30. So just because you’re skinny now doesn’t mean that you’ll be like that always.

 

[AdamP88]

you soon find that none of those other things matter

While I understand where you’re coming from, this is just not true. They may not matter as much as the heart of the person, they do matter. And there are things you can do about them. The trick is to know what to do with what you got and be happy with that. I’m not the most attractive guy in the world. But I accept that and I can accept what God gave me in the looks department. That’s the main thing.

 

[bluerose]

If you’re physically exhausted at the end of the day, perhaps you should start with a visit to your doctor. My husband found he had very low thyroid and testosterone levels after I pushed him to see a doctor because he could barely make it through dinner without falling asleep and he was irritable and somewhat depressed! Once he started treatment and his energy came back, he found himself with a better attitude about everything including himself.

That part of your post really jumped out at me, so I would start with a doctor’s visit.

 

[Irishmom2]

OP, do you think that these men you think of so highly did nothing to get where they are today?

Honestly, you need to change your attitude because you are wallowing a bit in self pity. You are choosing to do nothing about your appearance. You are choosing to not learn how to do things.

Everyone is tired after work. No one is born knowing how to fix things or whatever it is you feel you are lacking in. But others work out anyway to feel good. They try things on their own as @AdamP88 said, or they have someone else teach them, or read up on the internet.

As far as your grudge holding, self esteem and sadness, I think you should seek professional help. God does not want you to spend your life being unhappy and sad. But he would expect you to put something of yourself into fixing your own life.

 

[AdamP88]

That part of your post really jumped out at me, so I would start with a doctor’s visit.

Possibly but not necessarily. When I worked in retail I would spend all day packing shelves and lifting boxes, crates etc. By the end of the day I’d be exhausted. Depends on the OP’s job.
Even now when I’m teaching high-school students, I sometimes feel exhausted, but if I don’t get my exercise, I feel worse.
I would try doing some exercise and see if that makes him feel better. If not, then it may be time to see the doctor.

Just to add…there’s a good tired and a “bad” tired. Being exhausted after work is kind of a mental state as much as tiredness. You can go out for physical exercise and you’ll come in tired but you’ll be mentally alert and aware.

 

[Phillip_Rolfes]

While I understand where you’re coming from, this is just not true. They may not matter as much as the heart of the person, they do matter. And there are things you can do about them.

Alright. Let me rephrase myself. Physical health matters only to the extent to which we are required to care for our bodies (which are a gift from God). I don’t mean to imply that one doesn’t need to exercise and eat healthy to stay healthy. But we don’t have to be body builders or athletes. Going for a daily walk is some of the best exercise for both mind and body.

The point is, the body (and even the mind) breaks down after awhile. A muscular and attractive appearance isn’t even secondary to authentic masculinity because it will (soon) pass. Plus, the standards for what is considered attractive change almost as much for men as it does for women. I remember when “scrawny pale white guys” were “in.” A few years later the “dad bod” was “in.” Today it seems like six-packs and bulging muscles are “in.” These things don’t make the man.

So, take care of your physical health, yes. But don’t obsess over building muscle and getting the “perfect physique.” Jesus called us to take up our cross daily and follow him, not to become body builders.

 

[JulianN]

I see someone like Dr. Taylor Marshall or Timothy Gordon, they represent the ideal masculine Catholic Traditional men.

Just as a side comment to what others have said, Dr. Marshall is so far from my idea of the ideal man that it’s immeasurable. You don’t need to compare yourself to other men; you need to be the man God created you to be.

 

[Leek]

Have you ever taken the “Highly Sensitive Person” test, might be worth a try. Not everyone is wired the same way.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

When I see someone like Dr. Taylor Marshall or Timothy Gordon, they represent the ideal masculine Catholic Traditional men. They are really muscular, and Dr. Marshall is really handsome and has eight or nine kids with a beautiful wife

My entire life, I’ve found men who look like Taylor Marshall or Timothy Gordon to be extremely unattractive. Taylor Marshall to me looks like a “jock type” and I would rather date trees than go out with that. I had types of men I liked and that “type” wasn’t it. I liked a lot of skinny men. I also liked some fat men. I dated one man for about 10 years who was 5 foot 4, skinny and had a high pitched voice and I thought from a physical attractiveness standpoint he was the cutest thing ever. He sometimes harped on what a pain it was to be a short man and that he didn’t feel “manly” but the problem was pretty much all in his own head. I also wasn’t the only woman who found him attractive as he’d been in a serious relationship for several years before I met him, and there were also other ladies who liked him and would try to steal him from me.

I also knew several other men at my work who were short and skinny and several of them also had high pitched voices. They all had pretty wives at home except one who was dating a very pretty young lady, and a couple of them had been promoted up to management levels. One of them had been a fighter pilot in the Air Force.

Just because the world decides a certain look or size is the accepted version of “good-looking” for the culture doesn’t mean everybody buys into that. You’d do well to start getting rid of these ideas in your head about what the “ideal Catholic man” looks like and work with what God gave you. I was always a little sad that God didn’t make me look like a supermodel, but that probably wouldn’t have been good for me as most of the supermodels I’ve read about have not lived lives that I admire or would want to have for my own life, even if I wasn’t a strong Catholic.

 

[Crusader13]

Don’t let Satan trick you into thinking you can’t aspire to be more than you currently are. If you’re watching Taylor Marshall and thinking you have to be a practitioner of jujitsu, with a wife and nine kids, I think you’re missing the point of his podcast.

Perhaps you should look into reading a book that just came out, Terror of Demons: Reclaiming Traditional Catholic Masculinity.

It’s a very insightful book into the role we as Catholic men should be fulfilling. It’s not about physical appearances, but your faith as a Catholic man in the world today.

Don’t get stuck in despair, there are men all over that feel similar to you, so don’t think you’re alone in that regard. When it comes to repairs around the house, you’d be surprised what you can learn on YouTube. and you can also find great workout routines online. Start off with two or three days a week if you can and you’ll be surprised how much energy you’ll have when you begin exercising.

 

[Salibi]

they represent the ideal masculine Catholic Traditional men.

Seriously? :man_facepalming:t2::man_facepalming:t2:

And the saints who fasted daily until they were rail thin are not “ideal” Catholic men? Wherever did you get such a bizarre notion? What on earth does Catholicism have to do with the size of a man’s muscles?

Dr. Marshall is really handsome and has eight or nine kids with a beautiful wife, and he also practices Brazilian jiu jitsu. He has a beautiful life with an awesome family,

Good for him. However, people can have none of the above and still be “ideal” Catholics.

No one alive is an ideal Catholic, mind you. Not even Taylor Marshall, whom you seem to idolize. Frankly, I think your problem, other than low self-esteem, is a misguided and flawed view of things. You don’t become a bad Catholic just because you’re “super skinny” or because you have a high-pitched voice. Catholic men are allowed to be super skinny and not care much for sports or whatever…and that doesn’t make them less manly.

Your problem seems to be the following:

1. An incorrect notion of what an ideal Catholic looks like.
2. An incorrect notion of manliness.

For the former, ideal Catholics are Catholics who adhere fully and unreservedly to Church teaching, who pray regularly, fast regularly, and attend Mass frequently (among other things). For the latter, a man can still be manly without looking like he’s on steroids. I think you need to adjust your perspective from such a toxic notion of manliness to one that’s more reflective of reality. Look around you. Does every man you see look like a bodybuilder?

Men come in all shapes and sizes. Women come in all shapes and sizes. There is no “ideal” way a person should look, only cultural standards of beauty that change with the times. That said, that doesn’t mean that if you’re happy with the way you look, you shouldn’t change. On the contrary. Have you done anything to improve your body image and self-esteem? Exercised? Lifted weights? Hiked?

I just feel like a loser, and I feel guilty for talking about my feelings because that isn’t really manly either.

There is nothing manly or unmanly about talking about your feelings. It is a neutral act. You’re not feeling well, and you should reach out to someone in real life, perhaps even a licensed counsellor. Get off this forum, lose this toxic mentality, and get the help you deserve.