Traditional Catholicism is Winning

[JimR-OCDS]

That’s probably an issue of your location. Nuns/sisters (someone posted elsewhere that “nun” refers to cloistered, “sister” non-cloistered?) in traditional habits are definitely on the increase. The Dominicans Oprah featured on her shoe are not cloistered, and a friend from my parish joined a non-cloistered Fransiscan order that wears traditional habits.

Out priest (and two priests ago, and a local priest in Oregon who is now assigned to Rome) often wear cassocks and occasionally berettas (sp?).

Now that you mention it, I remember the nuns on Oprah, and another order, right near me in New Hampshire.

They’re referred to as the Running Nuns, who run a home for children. Many of the children come from broken homes and have emotional problems of their own. What the nuns discovered was, exercise, especially through running first thing in the morning, helps these kids settle down and helps them to focus on things that are important.

The sisters in full habit, in fact run with the kids.

stcharleshome.org/

Jim

 

[Ridgerunner]

Now that you mention it, I remember the nuns on Oprah, and another order, right near me in New Hampshire.

They’re referred to as the Running Nuns, who run a home for children. Many of the children come from broken homes and have emotional problems of their own. What the nuns discovered was, exercise, especially through running first thing in the morning, helps these kids settle down and helps them to focus on things that are important.

The sisters in full habit, in fact run with the kids.

stcharleshome.org/

Jim

There are others. These sisters go into the neighborhoods in the South Bronx and elsewhere doing their work, and in full habit. I spoke to one of them, who said the habit actually “opens people up”. People feel they will be kind and spiritual, which these sisters are. Interesting to look at the photographs and see how young these sisters are.

sistersoflife.org/about-the-sisters-of-life

 

[sw85]

BTW - a slightly dated article, but relevant nonetheless. I truly do hate to be cynical, but vocations often increase in times of socio-economic instability. While I do think that the Church, increasingly and effectively preaching a message of continuity of faith and tradition, is having a positive effect, one must consider that some of this is due to the world around us. The good news is that it does to an extent reflect a rejection of the worldly, and represents as the article states a bit of a countercultural movement in favor of the Church. A long time coming …

On the other hand, the fact that it’s a product of economic trends doesn’t mean it’s transient. After all, it could just be that the economy is reverting to the mean. And in any event, even if the economy improves, this generation of “poverty priests” or whatever you want to call them will still be with us!

I beg to differ. I have a young friend who is going to be a nun. She says that the young people are all turning to the tradition and she has many young friends that want to be priests and nuns. She told me that when they become nuns they are going to walk all over the city in the long traditional habits to give witness to the people I can’t wait!

There are definitely some signs of a genuine religious revival in the Church. The increase in love of and demand for the EF of the Mass is one example of this, and there are many more. I see some encouraging trends, especially among the young.

On the other hand we must not forget the fact that there is still a lot of difficulty ahead. I know my generation. I know their aggressive, belligerent leftism. I know their hatred for all duty, tradition, authority, and piety. I know their fetishes for perversion. I know their rank and unapologetic ignorance (have any of you seen those annoying Facebook memes? A lot of people in my generation actually think that way) and the deadly pride that keeps them from recognizing it.

And I know more ex-Catholics my age than I do Catholics. It’s true the Catholics my age are some of the best Catholics I know, but the non-Catholics my age are some of the worst human beings I’ve ever had the misfortune of meeting, and there are lots more of them than there are good Catholics. A friend of mine, paraphrasing C.S. Lewis, often says that the good is getting better and the bad is getting worse, all the time. I agree with him. Things are constantly clarifying, constantly coming to a head. The battle lines are forming.

So while the long-term trends are encouraging (differential fertility alone pretty much guarantees our return to prominence over a sufficiently long timeline) it is very likely that most of my generation will be lost to sin and atheism. God works on longer timelines than individual lifetimes. So it may well be that none of us will live to see that religious revival. In fact, I don’t expect it. Things will get worse before they get better, because my generation has not yet come into the fullness of power. When they do, things will get extremely bad.

This is, I think, part of the reason for the rejuvenation of the EF Mass, especially among young Catholics. It’s so *different *from the world. There is nothing quite like it in our profane, day-to-day experience. It is alien, transcendent. It builds up walls between ourselves and the world, with all its lies and traps and venom. For people of my generation, who know just how bad our generation is, those walls are something to be desired. Another friend of mine has another saying: we need lifeboats, not soapboxes. Indeed.

 

[Alan55]

With all this talk of “winning” and “revival,” let me add this perspective: movements and revivals come in many flavors, not all of which would be viewed with such obvious pleasure by the traditionalists who frequent CA. I’m old enough to have witnessed and/or participated in many of them: the civil rights movement, the anti-war movement, Catholic Worker, base Christian communities, Cursillo, Marriage Encounter, charismatic renewal, the environmental movement, etc., etc. For those who think that the current romantic traditionalism is the one true Catholicism and that the rest are heretics who will simply leave the Church, be aware that each generation brings with it new surprises. The Holy Spirit has a way of defeating our expectations and predictions.

 

[SGail]

It was the history and the traditionalisim of the Church that attracted me years ago when I was searching for God, (mind you there were some unpleasent modernist suprises awaiting me!) I think that more people are searching now, than ever before as they find the hedonistic promises of our culture did not turn out the way they were supposed to. We were promised total freedom and instead many of us now have to deal with broken homes, broken lives, and broken children. There is hope. I pray the Divine Mercy prayers constantly for the world. Jesus offers us Mercy and Forgiveness. I really believe this is what people are seeking and that the are finding it in the tradition of our Church. Things will not change overnight. In the Old Testament the Isrealites always abandoned God when things were going good, and God always brought them back. I have faith this is what is happening now.

 

[Roy5]

Interesting subject. Complex. Many uncertainties. What hit me a couple years ago was a survey of Catholics indicating that 52% of Catholics didn’t believe in transubstantiation. Then there were many who weren’t sure. This is perhaps the most basic and distinctive doctrine of Catholicism.

   I guess the question is: how many 'real' Catholics are there in the US? True, the large Latino immigration has swelled the numbers in many areas. The Evangelicals are after them, of course, and one has to wonder. Most Catholics I know personally attend mass with some regularly (older generation, like me), but they think quite independently. They also don't have the reverence for the clergy as when I was a child. They have been embarrassed, even humiliated, by the moral scandal within the priesthood and this has turned many off. 

   The main problem is that young people are turned off by the thousands, Many around here are attracted to churches that begin with 30 minutes of live music, a cross between a rock concert and a pep rally. But they like it. Some others drift to the more liberal main line Protestant churches - Episcopal, Methodist, UCC, etc. - where a wide variety of theological thinking is permitted and members may disagree on such issues as abortion, same-sex marriage,etc.  

  Perhaps the largest number just abandon organized religion altogether, perhaps attending mass at Easter and Christmas for family or cultural reasons. Even some of these have become anti-church. This new battle which seems to pit the Church against Obama threatens to alienate many liberal Catholics who focus particular attention on the poor, peace, educational issues, women's issues, etc.

  Time will tell. Those who believe that God will sustain the Church ("the gates of hell will not prevail" etc) need not worry. Those who don't believe that may have plenty of reason to be concerned.

 

[LisaA]

Interesting subject. Complex. Many uncertainties. What hit me a couple years ago was a survey of Catholics indicating that 52% of Catholics didn’t believe in transubstantiation. Then there were many who weren’t sure. This is perhaps the most basic and distinctive doctrine of Catholicism.

   **The main problem is that young people are turned off by the thousands, Many around here are attracted to churches that begin with 30 minutes of live music, a cross between a rock concert and a pep rally. But they like it. Some others drift to the more liberal main line Protestant churches - Episcopal, Methodist, UCC, etc. - where a wide variety of theological thinking is permitted and members may disagree on such issues as abortion, same-sex marriage,etc.  **      Perhaps the largest number just abandon organized religion altogether, perhaps attending mass at Easter and Christmas for family or cultural reasons. Even some of these have become anti-church. This new battle which seems to pit the Church against Obama threatens to alienate many liberal Catholics who focus particular attention on the poor, peace, educational issues, women's issues, etc.

  Time will tell. Those who believe that God will sustain the Church ("the gates of hell will not prevail" etc) need not worry. Those who don't believe that may have plenty of reason to be concerned.

Young people are basically turned off by most churches. They are in a seeking/skeptical stage of life and think there are answers elsewhere. Yes some do gravitate to the ‘entertainment church’ which are often non-denominational but if in your area there are increases in the mainline Prot churches, well that’s an anomoly. Non specific but Christ centered organizations such as Young Life are a big draw…and I can see why having volunteered at a Young Life camp for several years. So I don’t think this is a new trend.

With respect to vocations, our priest recently had his Jubilee and said he was the ONLY priest ordained that year. This year we had FIFTY priests ordained, the seminary is bursting at the seams and there is a waiting list.

I get somewhat annoyed at the theory men are going into the priesthood as a desperation move…hardly. It’s the same theory that only those without alternatives go into the military. The reality that both have quite stringent standards, the former much more stringent. We have a fair number of ‘second career’ priests who have had successful lives but felt a strong call to the priesthood. I think like many who were fed the lie of modern culture, they realize that excitement is not the same as joy.

Lisa

 

[CaptFun]

From the Wall Street Journal.

online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303772904577335290865863450.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

Peace,
Ed

Nice article. From the headline I thought maybe Steubenville had scheduled Notre Dame in football and Georgetown in basketball and was favored to win in both cases!

 

[grannymh]

From the Wall Street Journal.

online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303772904577335290865863450.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

Peace,
Ed

Here is the bad news from the link.

“This aging generation of progressives continues to lobby church leaders to change Catholic teachings on reproductive rights, same-sex marriage and women’s ordination. But it is being replaced by younger men and women who are attracted to the church because of the very timelessness of its teachings.”

Those of us in the trenches (the real world off line) know that the replacement generations also include students of the students of the so-called “aging generation of progressives”. These students are the missing generations (plural intended) who no longer feel (feel is the operative word) that it is necessary to attend the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

 

[trapper1]

Here is the bad news from the link.

“This aging generation of progressives continues to lobby church leaders to change Catholic teachings on reproductive rights, same-sex marriage and women’s ordination. But it is being replaced by younger men and women who are attracted to the church because of the very timelessness of its teachings.”

Those of us in the trenches (the real world off line) know that the replacement generations also include students of the students of the so-called “aging generation of progressives”. These students are the missing generations (plural intended) who no longer feel (feel is the operative word) that it is necessary to attend the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

The first step in instituional renewel is ideological consistency and coherence. An inability to speak with one voice (for all practical purposes) is what has caused the trouble over the last 50 years (it seemed you could find someone in the clergy holding any view at all). Fix this (I see signs of this happening) and the church will draw members back and grow (like the JWs and Mormons). “Prune and it grows again.”

 

[LisaA]

The first step in instituional renewel is ideological consistency and coherence. An inability to speak with one voice (for all practical purposes) is what has caused the trouble over the last 50 years (it seemed you could find someone in the clergy holding any view at all). Fix this (I see signs of this happening) and the church will draw members back and grow (like the JWs and Mormons). “Prune and it grows again.”

Absolutely. It is Catholicism’s consistency and strength in the face of culture that is so appealing. The recent HHS Mandate issue where ALL of the Bishops spoke together was a watershed moment. So often those wanting to push a particular issue…immigration, poverty programs, or role of women in the Church, could fine some Catholic clergy speaking to their side of things. The headlines would tout such falsehoods as “Bishops Claim Republican Budget Will Cause Mass Starvation!” when it might have been that a few Bishops questioned a cut in one of the eight zillion food support programs offered by the federal government.

I do agree that while there are always different interpretations of various issues, we see more consistency and strong statements regarding secular activities that oppose our Church’s most fundamental teaching.

Those churches (TEC, Methodist etc) that have bowed to culture, changed with the prevailing winds, are losing members in droves. Relativism has limited appeal.

Lisa

 

[adopted_heir]

Yes, nicely put. The Church isn’t about the Hatfields vs. the McCoys, as much as some Traditionalists would like to see it so.

I find this kind of ironic.

 

[FatherOfTwelve]

We’ll have to wait to see if that young woman’s expectation comes true. Right now, I don’t think it will.

My daughter is! Vocations in “The Servants of the Lord & Our Lady of Matara” are BOOMING! Orthodox & Fully Veiled.

 

[Tampa_Dave]

Traditionalism is winning, thank God. We survived, flourished and stood out among other denominations for 2,000 years with vibrant Catholic orthodoxy. Perhaps the current resurgence in traditionalism will get us to a point where Catholicism no longer resembles Protestantism.

 

[onmyknees]

Traditionalism is winning, thank God. We survived, flourished and stood out among other denominations for 2,000 years with vibrant Catholic orthodoxy. Perhaps the current resurgence in traditionalism will get us to a point where Catholicism no longer resembles Protestantism.

 

[adopted_heir]

traditionalism is winning, thank god. We survived, flourished and stood out among other denominations for 2,000 years with vibrant catholic orthodoxy. Perhaps the current resurgence in traditionalism will get us to a point where catholicism no longer resembles protestantism.

amen!!:d

 

[CMatt25]

For those who think that the current romantic traditionalism is the one true Catholicism and that the rest are heretics who will simply leave the Church, be aware that each generation brings with it new surprises. The Holy Spirit has a way of defeating our expectations and predictions.

Good point Alan and anyway I don’t see how people “leaving the Church” could in any way be called “winning”. Seems to me winning would be when Mass attendance increases to much greater numbers. I understand people want a purer if smaller Church. But it seems to me Christ might prefer His Church to grow in practicing members. And if people aren’t in the pews, they aren’t likely to become purer in practice.

 

[Tony_the_mad]

Good point Alan and anyway I don’t see how people “leaving the Church” could in any way be called “winning”. Seems to me winning would be when Mass attendance increases to much greater numbers. I understand people want a purer if smaller Church. But it seems to me Christ might prefer His Church to grow in practicing members. And if people aren’t in the pews, they aren’t likely to become purer in practice.

Thanks for your thoughts. My first response to the title of the original post was I did not know we were fighting or playing a game. I like your response better.

In some fairness to traditionalists; I think they believe that a more holy Church (even if it is smaller) would be in a better position to convert the entire Church. To them the traditional resurgence is the first step.

Too, there is an element among some traditionalists that believes that if they make the Church more pure that Christ will fix the Church. To an extent they believe that the prayers of the pure and holy would reach higher to heaven and be heard more. (I hope I am not making a straw man out of some of their beliefs here.)

I hope and pray that they are correct and this increase in vocations is the first step toward a stronger Church. I am not so certain that I am optimistic, though. The traditionalist movement has many elements of the other major reforms in the history of the Church but lacks one in my opinion; humility about their mission. Paul may ‘boast in the Lord’ but traditionalist boast about their stricter than thou adherence to Papal and traditional teachings.

Unfortunately, the rest of us are not any better at humility. I include myself as one of the worst offenders. We all must reflect on Christ’s mission; how He taught us both to be more strict about what was important but also how He taught us how not to let unimportant righteous works of purity distract us from what is truly important. (Knowing which is which is the hard part.)

I put my trust in the Lord who has raised up many an unlikely champion from Paul who was ‘sent to preach the gospel and not with the wisdom of human eloquence’ (1 Cor. 1:17) to the ever humble St. Francis of Assisi to the humble peasant Juan Diego whom our Lady sent to shake the Cathedrals of the Bishops. In my brief study of the history of Catholic Church every part of the Church from Papacy, down to the lowest of peasants, including powerful rulers and humble monks has been at some point the key to restoring the grandeur and purity of the Church. Too, every part from the highest to the lowest has at some time needed to be restored to purity.

 

[Tony_the_mad]

On the other hand we must not forget the fact that there is still a lot of difficulty ahead. I know my generation. I know their aggressive, belligerent leftism. I know their hatred for all duty, tradition, authority, and piety. I know their fetishes for perversion. I know their rank and unapologetic ignorance (have any of you seen those annoying Facebook memes? A lot of people in my generation actually think that way) and the deadly pride that keeps them from recognizing it.

Such blatant perversion of the other sides beliefs, in this case ‘leftists’, should not be tolerated.

 

[Tony_the_mad]

My daughter is! Vocations in “The Servants of the Lord & Our Lady of Matara” are BOOMING! Orthodox & Fully Veiled.

Congratulations on raising such a devout daughter.

I, like you it appears, think it was a mistake for the sisters to wear street clothes. Sisters and Brothers and Priests have an important ministry of presence.

On the other hand, I don’t understand why it is important that they be Fully veiled. To me it is sufficient that they are recognized for being what they are even if that recognition came from wearing a simple cross. Mother Theresa’s order for instance wear a ‘habit’ that is very much like the Indian sarape instead of the traditional Catholic habit.

It is good that the Church be conservative and ‘set apart’ but it also has to adapt. For instance, at one point the Catholic Church had a thriving missionary activity in China that was hurt when the Pope forced the missionaries to wear traditional priestly attire instead of the traditional Chinese attire they were wearing.

I apologize for hijacking your thoughts. I am honestly excited that you are proud, and rightly so, of your daughter and her order. That pride is good and sufficient, but if you could help me understand why it is necessary that the sisters be Fully garbed I would greatly appreciated it.