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carl36
Guest
What’s the difference between a Catholic and a Traditional Catholic? (except one is preferring the rites of St Pius V)
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BobP123
Guest
As far as I remember, there were no Tradititonal Catholics before Vatican II.
As far as the rites are concerned, I can easily live with the (1962) rite of Pope John XXIII. Call me what you want.
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Trident59
Guest
I agree with you Bobp123. I prefer the 1962 Mass. However, I’ve been attending the NO Mass for the last 40 years as have most Trditional Catholics. Its not a matter of choice. Its all we have unless we want to drive over 100 miles each way and fight lack of parking.
On the ocassions where I do get to go to the TLM or old Dominican Rite, I try to draw enough spirituallity to last another 30 days.
Cheers
On the ocassions where I do get to go to the TLM or old Dominican Rite, I try to draw enough spirituallity to last another 30 days.
Cheers
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BobP123
Guest
I hear you. I went for 26 years to NO without confession as I really didn’t see any need to. Nobody believed in sin anymore.
Then when I realized the Latin Mass was back (actually I heard about it on another message board about 10 years ago, from a LA NO priest of all people) I searched and found one closeby right away. Spiritual life has changed dramatically. And less stress on the body as well. I’m praying for the Universal Indult to make it easy for all Catholics to enjoy their heritage again.
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Malcolm_McLean
Guest
That’s it. If given the choice of two Masses, equally convenient, you go to the Latin one in preference to the vernacular, you are a Traditional Catholic.
Of course Traditional Catholicism is correlated with all sorts of other things, such as regular confession, a sceptical attitude to ecumenism, a respect for learning, and so forth. However there are also plenty of firm NO people who go to confession regularly, beleive that the Anglicans have torpedoed any chnace of unity, and want to defend Catholic education. So none of these things define the Traditional Catholic.
I am half a traditional Catholic. When we have Latin Mass in our parish I attend, but I also attend the English Mass. This is for two reasons. Firstly the Latin Mass is at 4 and the English is at 11 and I can’t trust myself not to be asleep. That’s actually a medical problem due to drugs that I take. The second reason is that I don’t want the TLM to be perceived as divisive.
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Hesychios
Guest
Is the liturgy the only aspect of the church that involves traditionalism for most people?
In other words, do most traditionalists accept the married permanent diaconate? The revised Breviary (LOTH)? Ecumanism? The one hour communion fast?
I am just curious to see how deep this mindset actually goes.
Michael
In other words, do most traditionalists accept the married permanent diaconate? The revised Breviary (LOTH)? Ecumanism? The one hour communion fast?
I am just curious to see how deep this mindset actually goes.
Michael
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Trident59
Guest
Its more than just the Liturgy. It goes really deep. For example my wife and I observe the 3 hour Fast and are working our way back to Fasting from the midnight before receiving communion. Its not easy as most of us have lost the disciplines necessary, so it takes some re-training. We also don’t approve of a married deaconate or altar girls, eucharistic ministers, etc.
All of the above plus many other preferences make us traditional Catholics. Which is why we feel so uncomfortable with the Novus Ordo Masses.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m NOT saying that I believe the NO Masses are invalid. I just do not care to practice the new Rite.
And yes, I do attend a NO church on a regular basis because there is not a TLM nearby. About once a month we make the 200 mile round trip for TLM or Old Dominican. In fact got an Old Dominican Rite coming up on the Feast of St. Joseph next week with Monteverdi’s “Missa a Quattro Voci” and his “Beatus Vir.” with Gregorian Proper.
Don’t get that at my NO parish.
All of the above plus many other preferences make us traditional Catholics. Which is why we feel so uncomfortable with the Novus Ordo Masses.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m NOT saying that I believe the NO Masses are invalid. I just do not care to practice the new Rite.
And yes, I do attend a NO church on a regular basis because there is not a TLM nearby. About once a month we make the 200 mile round trip for TLM or Old Dominican. In fact got an Old Dominican Rite coming up on the Feast of St. Joseph next week with Monteverdi’s “Missa a Quattro Voci” and his “Beatus Vir.” with Gregorian Proper.
Don’t get that at my NO parish.
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Eileen_T
Guest
We get both at a neighbouring parish which we attend. I go to either as it is not the Latin so much as the reverence of the priest celebrating that makes all the difference.
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Malcolm_McLean
Guest
The permanent diaconate is not traditional, but most Traditional Catholics would see a celibate diaconate as a legitimate change to tradition. Most are very worried about married deacons because the public is so focused on priestly celibacy because of the current moral climate, and many feel a married clerical order might undermine the witness of celibate priests. Another worry is that celibate deacons seem to be so few in number.
That is entirely different to saying that the orders are invalid or that, in any individual case, the deacon is not a valued minister. “We shouldn’t have milk monitors” is not the same as “Molly was wrong to volunteer for milk monitor”, and certainly not the same as “Molly is not a valid milk monitor”.
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RobedWithLight
Guest
Actually there were. St. Thomas Aquinas himself was criticized by 13th century “traditionalists” of his day who were bothered by his attempts to adapt certain aspects of Greek Philosophy (especially Aristotle and Plato) into Catholic Thought, which they felt threatened the purity of the Christian faith. St. Thomas’ thought eventually won the day.
In any case, only those with a preference for the TLM refer to themselves as traditionalists, in addition to “Catholic”. Other Catholics simply refer to themselves as “Catholic” without qualification or distinction.
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Deacon_Ed
Guest
I would disagree with you that “the permanent diaconate is not traditional” since it was the only form of the diaconate in the early Church. It was not until the 8th and 9th century that the diaconate became a stepping-stone to the priesthood, and then only in the West. The East retained the concept of permanent orders both at the diaconate level and below (there are many permanent sub-deacons in the East). However, in the West canon law precluded the possiblity of a permanent diaconate for a long time since no bishop was to ordain a man if he were not aiming for the priesthood.
Thus, the tradition of a permanent diaconate was only restored, not created.
Deacon Ed
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Uxor
Guest
Isn’t that the truth…no stress…the world could be falling apart all around you and you feel joyful and at peace.
Praise God.
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Uxor
Guest
A Traditional Catholic isn’t one that picks and chooses in what they believe and still takes Holy Communion, like for instance
in matters of abortion, contraceptive, homosexuality and what the Pope meantioned today in regards to divorce catholics. .
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carl36
Guest
The thing is, are those who pick and choose Catholic at all??
I think rather they are sectarian.
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Hesychios
Guest
This is too bad, actually.
The western church actually did lose a lot coming through the scholastic period. It also made a chasm between the eastern and western church we have not been able to bridge even until this very day.
So sad…
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Hesychios
Guest
Are there any studies done that can substantiate the assertion that traditional Catholics do not pick and choose what they believe and do?
Or is this just something we all hope is true?
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Michael*
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bkovacs
Guest
I’ve been attending the Divine Liturgy at a local Eastern Orthodox parish for years now. I’m not into guitars, hand clapping:clapping: ,:dancing: holding hands, no incense, no Gregorian Chant, or females distributing holy communion.
This seems to be the “DOMINANT” form of worship at Roman Catholic Churches here in the US, and is unlikely to change in my lifetime.
If the Tridentine Mass was in every Roman Catholic parish, not just a few. I might return. But until then, the Orthodox Church has adopted me!!
. In Orthodoxy, you have the Byzantine or Plain Chant, at every Orthodox Church in the world. Their are no eucharistic ministers, plenty of incense.
The non choking kind. For our prayers rise with incense before God, and your not a number among hundreds of parisheners to the priest.:hug1: I’m suprised many traditionalists, don’t start attending the Divine Liturgy, vs the modern Roman Catholic Protestant service. But I will still converse with conservative Roman Catholics. I grieve for the fact that they are a minority now:crying: .
This seems to be the “DOMINANT” form of worship at Roman Catholic Churches here in the US, and is unlikely to change in my lifetime. If the Tridentine Mass was in every Roman Catholic parish, not just a few. I might return. But until then, the Orthodox Church has adopted me!! . In Orthodoxy, you have the Byzantine or Plain Chant, at every Orthodox Church in the world. Their are no eucharistic ministers, plenty of incense. The non choking kind. For our prayers rise with incense before God, and your not a number among hundreds of parisheners to the priest.:hug1: I’m suprised many traditionalists, don’t start attending the Divine Liturgy, vs the modern Roman Catholic Protestant service. But I will still converse with conservative Roman Catholics. I grieve for the fact that they are a minority now:crying: .
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RobedWithLight
Guest
Very good distinction, Malcolm and I fully agree.
Their perception of the liturgy is the primary, though not the only point of departure between traditionalists and conservatives.
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RobedWithLight
Guest
However, it is also true some “traditionalists” are in fact displaying this cafeteria “pick and choose” mentality with regards the liturgy. Scorning one liturgy while praising the other.
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cyberwolf001
Guest
In addition to the TLM.
There’s a HIGH preference for learning latin, beliving we that Female Alter Boys should be done away with.
Really your best bet is to go to Fisheaters.com and have a look around…
There’s a HIGH preference for learning latin, beliving we that Female Alter Boys should be done away with.
Really your best bet is to go to Fisheaters.com and have a look around…
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