Traditional roles for men and women

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aball1035

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Where do the traditional roles for family come from (men make money, women to raise children, generally speaking)? Furthermore, how do we know that those roles are what God wants each gender to play in society?
 
suppression of women over centuries? I don’t think it was always that way, but there is plenty of evidence that women were held back because it seemed more important to reproduce.
 
Traditional does not always mean suppression. Men and women did what they had to do to scratch out a living. It depends what social class you happen to be in.

In the U.S., what is most definitely obvious is the middle class level, man at work, women at home. Their roles complemented each other.

Looking at my extended family, which is working class, women sometimes worked outside the home and at another point in their lives became housewives to raise young children. Later on, when the kids become more independent, they start looking for outside employment.

Others ran businesses together. Like my aunt and uncle who had a thriving catering business.
 
Genesis 3 : 16…He said to the woman: I will intensify your labor pains; you will bear children in anguish. Your desire will be for your husband, yet he will rule over you:
Now that I have outraged by just quoting the Bible, let me suggest you look for agrarian society; families putting in together to scrape out a living; women taking time off to have and raise kids; man continuing every day to keep his family. Social mores based on tradition. No submission; just a team loving their kids, using their natural attributes, strengths, skills, love for each other and co-operation. It is not rocket science.
 
I do think there’s some basis for it in reality. The biological reality of pregnancy and nursing (before formula and for those too poor to afford wet nurses) meant a woman would have to stay closer to home as long as she had young children.

However, I think what frequently gets lost in these discussions is that until very recently, men ALSO stayed pretty darn close to home. Their business was run out of their home, or they did farming. And their wives were often helping with that as well.
 
aball1035 said:
Where do the traditional roles for family come from (men make money, women to raise children, generally speaking)? Furthermore, how do we know that those roles are what God wants each gender to play in society?
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That’s a relatively new “traditional” division of labor. In the past, textile manufacture happened in the home (see Proverbs 31) and was a very important source of income.

Also, what we think of as childhood was often shorter. So, for instance, rather than spending 0-18 at home with mom, a boy would be placed as an apprentice from something like 10 years old. A boy might also go to sea as a 10-year-old cabin boy. (Not recommending that, just mentioning.)

Also, the well-off would happily use options such as boarding school (the norm for middle class English people–see the Chronicles of Narnia) and servants for child care. A well-staffed home might have a nurse (the boss), a nursery maid, and maybe even a governess, too, to teach school-age children.

So, what we think of as a “traditional” home would be in some ways very surprising to many people of the past.
 
aball1035 said:
Furthermore, how do we know that those roles are what God wants each gender to play in society?
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I don’t know that we know that, as there have been so many changes in gender roles over the centuries and there are also a lot of differences at different socioeconomic levels. At some levels of US society, part of mom’s job is “get junior into good college” as opposed to “cook dinner every night.”
 
Sarcelle said:
Traditional does not always mean suppression. Men and women did what they had to do to scratch out a living. It depends what social class you happen to be in.

In the U.S., what is most definitely obvious is the middle class level, man at work, women at home. Their roles complemented each other.

Looking at my extended family, which is working class, women sometimes worked outside the home and at another point in their lives became housewives to raise young children. Later on, when the kids become more independent, they start looking for outside employment.

Others ran businesses together. Like my aunt and uncle who had a thriving catering business.
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Right.

My family also has a lot of joint businesses (farms, stores, etc).
 
I think it’s a holdover from ages past, and sometimes not even ages past, when we were primarily hunter/gatherers. Look at traditional tribes in remote parts of the world. The men go hunting and warring, and the women homestead and raise the children. Biologically, you can probably blame testosterone for making men so physical and estrogen for making women so nurturing, but to say that it’s oppression of women since the beginning of time or something is way too simple.
 
Stephen_says said:
I think it’s a holdover from ages past, and sometimes not even ages past, when we were primarily hunter/gatherers. Look at traditional tribes in remote parts of the world. The men go hunting and warring, and the women homestead and raise the children. Biologically, you can probably blame testosterone for making men so physical and estrogen for making women so nurturing, but to say that it’s oppression of women since the beginning of time or something is way too simple.
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Gatherers have to gather, you know. (And the gatherers have traditionally been women.)

That said, obviously hunters range further afield than a party of gatherers including pregnant women and small children would–but the gatherers would still be doing a lot of moving around.
 
40-hour a week employment for men isn’t actually all that “natural,” really, which is reflected in the fact that there are a lot of men in the contemporary world that really aren’t cut out for it. There have been some major breaks in continuity in men’s work over the millenia. Hunting is different from herding is different from farming is different from working in a factory, is different from being a white collar worker, etc., in terms of the physical effort involved, the hours, the amount of intellectual effort, the need for physical stamina, the need for intellectual persistence, the need for focused attention on tedious details, the need to tolerate boredom, the need for social skills, the availability of breaks, etc.

So, I wouldn’t be in a hurry to lump together all “men’s work” through the millennia as being all the same thing.
 
Stephen_says said:
I think it’s a holdover from ages past, and sometimes not even ages past, when we were primarily hunter/gatherers. Look at traditional tribes in remote parts of the world. The men go hunting and warring, and the women homestead and raise the children. Biologically, you can probably blame testosterone for making men so physical and estrogen for making women so nurturing, but to say that it’s oppression of women since the beginning of time or something is way too simple.
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Xantippe said:
Gatherers have to gather, you know. (And the gatherers have traditionally been women.)

That said, obviously hunters range further afield than a party of gatherers including pregnant women and small children would–but the gatherers would still be doing a lot of moving around.
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I think the nature of hunter/gatherer does play an important role. While women might move to gather it was likely in a fairly limited range and centered on where ever the core of the tribe might be.

Beyond that though I think that the hunter role also included more risk taking behavior. This likely go toward men’s vs women’s approach to business/making money. My general observation has been that men are, on average, more likely to take large risk, where as women tend to favor stability. That is not to say all men are risk takers and no woman is, but rather a general observation. I think much of that can be tied back to the hunter/gatherer division and how biochemistry influences those inclinations.
 
As to the OP’s question if we know it’s God’s will? While none of us can be certain, if you look at the vast majority of human cultures throughout human history you will see an overwhelming tendency towards women managing the home and men ranging father afield to acquire resources. Given the re-occurrence of these patterns it would seem safe to say that God doesn’t exactly reject it.
 
Xantippe said:
40-hour a week employment for men isn’t actually all that “natural,” really, which is reflected in the fact that there are a lot of men in the contemporary world that really aren’t cut out for it. There have been some major breaks in continuity in men’s work over the millenia. Hunting is different from herding is different from farming is different from working in a factory, is different from being a white collar worker, etc., in terms of the physical effort involved, the hours, the amount of intellectual effort, the need for physical stamina, the need for intellectual persistence, the need for focused attention on tedious details, the need to tolerate boredom, the need for social skills, the availability of breaks, etc.

So, I wouldn’t be in a hurry to lump together all “men’s work” through the millennia as being all the same thing.
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+1

Questions like this get literally thousands of answers, and often get a thread locked pretty quickly.
What works for some doesn’t at all work for others.
 
What I don’t understand is why some people think traditional roles are a bad thing. I am a homeschooling mom, so I take on all the traditional female roles- raising kids, cooking, cleaning, etc. I also have a post- graduate degree, but I don’t really use it, especially not in my daily life.

Just yesterday, someone said I was wasting my time and couldn’t possibly understand how I could be fulfilled. 🤷

My husband earns the bacon, and I cook it 😃

It amazes me that so many people don’t understand that not only are dh and I ok with this, we actually like it.
 
Regina7 said:
What I don’t understand is why some people think traditional roles are a bad thing. I am a homeschooling mom, so I take on all the traditional female roles- raising kids, cooking, cleaning, etc. I also have a post- graduate degree, but I don’t really use it, especially not in my daily life.

Just yesterday, someone said I was wasting my time and couldn’t possibly understand how I could be fulfilled. 🤷

My husband earns the bacon, and I cook it 😃

It amazes me that so many people don’t understand that not only are dh and I ok with this, we actually like it.
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And both my husband and I work outside the home…well, I’m in school currently to finish a degree that will allow me to work outside the home.

Both of us love it and it works well for us.
The girls are in Daycare and Preschool.

Both of us share home responsibilities.
We both equally take care of our kids…which has always included me pumping bottles for him to feed our kids while I slept…so we’d alternate nights on who was awake.

Just as much as women dislike being judged and looked down upon for taking a “traditional” role in marriage…us moms who work don’t like being judged for choosing to go out and work.

I could stay home and homeschool…right now we have the resources and income to do that.

I don’t want to. It’s never been and never will be an option for me. I would be a shell of a person if I did that and would resent being married and being a mom.

I want to be a working mom and I shouldn’t be looked down upon for it.

Some women thrive being stay-at-home moms and love every second of it.
Other women thrive as moms by going out and working and sending their kids to school.

So…lets all leave it well alone. Some moms love staying at home and that is fantastic. Other moms like to work and would rather hold down a job and send their kids to school. There is nothing wrong with that either!

It’s been argued to death. Leave it alone!
 
Kelfa28 said:
And both my husband and I work outside the home…well, I’m in school currently to finish a degree that will allow me to work outside the home.

Both of us love it and it works well for us.
The girls are in Daycare and Preschool.

Both of us share home responsibilities.
We both equally take care of our kids…which has always included me pumping bottles for him to feed our kids while I slept…so we’d alternate nights on who was awake.

Just as much as women dislike being judged and looked down upon for taking a “traditional” role in marriage…us moms who work don’t like being judged for choosing to go out and work.

I could stay home and homeschool…right now we have the resources and income to do that.

I don’t want to. It’s never been and never will be an option for me. I would be a shell of a person if I did that and would resent being married and being a mom.

I want to be a working mom and I shouldn’t be looked down upon for it.

Some women thrive being stay-at-home moms and love every second of it.
Other women thrive as moms by going out and working and sending their kids to school.

So…lets all leave it well alone. Some moms love staying at home and that is fantastic. Other moms like to work and would rather hold down a job and send their kids to school. There is nothing wrong with that either!

It’s been argued to death. Leave it alone!
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If this has been argued to death and you don’t want to discuss it, then why are you joining the discussion? 🤷
 
Regina7 said:
What I don’t understand is why some people think traditional roles are a bad thing. I am a homeschooling mom, so I take on all the traditional female roles- raising kids, cooking, cleaning, etc. I also have a post- graduate degree, but I don’t really use it, especially not in my daily life.

Just yesterday, someone said I was wasting my time and couldn’t possibly understand how I could be fulfilled. 🤷

My husband earns the bacon, and I cook it 😃

It amazes me that so many people don’t understand that not only are dh and I ok with this, we actually like it.
Click to expand...
Well, there is the question–how traditional is it, really?

One thing I’ve only recently noted is that the concept of “house cleaning” as a chore doesn’t really feature in the world of the Bible. You hear about ritual purification in the law books of the Old Testament, but house cleaning as a large share of a woman’s time just does not occur in the Bible. See, for example, the famous Proverbs 31 woman–lots of different kinds of work being mentioned (buying and managing a vineyard, trading, textile manufacture) but no house cleaning whatsoever, and the work she does doesn’t really sound like a mid-20th century housewife’s duties. (Although she is praised for getting food for her family from far away–which does have an analog in modern times.) Also, she explicitly has lots of household help. And there’s surprisingly little mention of childcare.

There is historically a lot of flux in domestic duties. To give just one example, when I was a kid, ironing occupied vast amounts of my mom’s time (as well as mine and my sister’s). Nowadays, I buy no-iron dress shirts for my husband and no-iron dress shirts for my kids for school and can go years without touching an iron. However, my mother (God bless her) didn’t do a fraction of the kid-driving that I do. She had the school bus to ferry us back and forth, whereas I’m driving kids back and forth to school, camp, therapy, music lessons, etc–stuff that just didn’t exist in the world of my childhood. She also spent maybe 1/10 as much time and energy on children’s school work as my husband and I do.

Similarly, in times past, laundry was not part of the sphere of responsibility of the mother of a prosperous family. Modern progress (the washer and dryer) have saddled the middle class mother with a major job that in times past was the responsibility of…the washerwoman or laundress.

washergenes.wordpress.com/2006/06/15/english-laundresses-a-social-history-1850-1930/

I would suggest that while there are certain obvious benefits to a SAHM/working dad split (dad doesn’t lactate and more often than not, dad makes a lot more money than mom ever could and somebody has got to watch the kids), some pragmatism is in order. Mom and grandma and great-grandma and great-great-grandma and great-great-great-grandma did stuff a certain way because of the practicalities of their situations, but as times change, the practicalities change, too.
 
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