Traditionalism and Catholicism often don’t mix

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Lovers of the old Mass are their own worst enemy. They are cutting off their nose to spite their face as they say. What a gracious gift by Pope Em BXVI in the permissions to celebrate the Tridentine Mass and it was thrown away, used as leverage to turn back time. I think maybe the gift was used by interlopers to advance the anti VII agenda and genuine people are now confused about Traditionis Custodes.
 
Fr. Mitch Pacwa says, forget the Latin mass! Why not go all the way back to the original Aramaic mass, as celebrated in the upper room?

Seriously, there are those who insist on receiving only kneeling and on the tongue. OK, fine, but reverence is in the human heart, not in a bodily posture.

Being immune suppressed, I have not been able to attend mass or receive for over two years. When this dry spell will end is known only to God. I wish those who demand this or that would realize just how fortunate they are.
 
po18guy said:
Fr. Mitch Pacwa says, forget the Latin mass! Why not go all the way back to the original Aramaic mass, as celebrated in the upper room?
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And as long as we’re going back to the practices of the early Church, why don’t we reserve the sacrament of penance to something that can only be received once in a lifetime?

Seeking always to return to the practices of the early Church ignores organic developments that have taken place throughout the history of the Church under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost.

And the wholesale revision of the liturgy under Bugnini was not an “organic development”. I always liken it to taking a car completely apart in a garage, then putting it back together again. I’m also reminded of what Earl Muntz did in his quest to produce television sets as cheaply as possible — he kept removing parts, and removing more parts, until he had stripped down a television receiver to its barest components, only problem was, those TV sets didn’t work very well. Just at the Novus Ordo remains the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, if only by the skin of its teeth, a Muntz TV set remained a TV set, but of very low quality, “bare-bones”, and not a good use of one’s money.
 
Generally speaking, knowledge of Catholicism is abysmal on the part of Catholics and virtually unknown - therefore fabricated - outside of the Church. There is a phrase “Active participation” of the laity in the Sacrifice, which “may” be controversial as it seems to be associated with Vatican II. It did not originate with the council. So, where did it come from?

Pope Saint Pius X. November, 1903
 
po18guy said:
Generally speaking, knowledge of Catholicism is abysmal on the part of Catholics and virtually unknown - therefore fabricated - outside of the Church. There is a phrase “Active participation” of the laity in the Sacrifice, which “may” be controversial as it seems to be associated with Vatican II. It did not originate with the council. So, where did it come from?

Pope Saint Pius X. November, 1903
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And the source document of St Pius X:


If I had been living at that time, I would have been very much in favor of Pius XII’s “Dialogue Mass”. I hear people talk smack about it in various traditionalist circles, but I say it was a good idea. It is not beyond the intelligence of the average person to learn the various, and fairly simple, Latin responses that do not vary from Mass to Mass. Altar servers do it. Indeed, I recite silently, as a private devotion, many parts of the Mass (though not the Canon) in unison with the priest, using a combination of memory (i.e., osmosis from 35+ years of acquaintance with the TLM) and my hand missal, after the fashion of a Missa sicca.

People commit various things in life to memory, depending on their interests and state of life, everything from favorite songs, to sports statistics, to recipes, the list goes on. The basic parts of the Latin Mass are no more complicated than these. It’s a question of priorities.

And as a kind of side point, every Jewish boy learns enough liturgical Hebrew to do the required readings for his bar mitzvah. Latin’s not nearly as difficult, or as alien to speakers of European languages (Finnish and Hungarian might be exceptions), as Hebrew is to pretty much any other language, including English. Catholics should be no less devoted to learning and erudition than Jews, who are rightly known for their intelligence and respect for education. If we aren’t, that’s on us.
 
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FWIW, there are Catholic Churches that use Aramaic dialects:


Aramaic was also likely the vernacular language of various communities of the Early Church, which means that the idea of using vernacular languages is quite old.

Things like Communion in the hand also turn out to be more ancient than some thought:


Finally, not only active participation but even calls for more Bible study are older than Vatican II.

 
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