Traditionalist Forums that are Faithful to Magisterium?

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Fisheaters officially views the Ordinary Form as Valid, though they do obviously hold the Extraordinary Form in higher regard. The site’s owners officially regard the Pope as the Pope, and in fact recently cracked down on people who claimed the Pope was not Catholic. They allow people who attend Diocesan, Personal Parishes (FSSP/ICRSP), SSPX, and Independent TLM’s to express their views, so long as charity is shown towards the Pope and his teaching. Yes, they may grumble from time to time on certain things, but I feel as a whole, Fisheaters can be useful. I wouldn’t recommend them to a new convert or anything, but I think for me personally, Pairing Fisheaters with both here and other forums, It’s easier for me to come to my own understanding of the crisis in the church and to try to be as faithful to the magisterium through the great tradition of the church.
👍

I found this there, and it is excellent! Rather long, but worth saving to favorites. It totally addresses many of the questions I have had in my lifetime regarding the state of affairs we find ourselves in today.

rev-know-it-all.com/2011/images/Hootenanny-Mass-history.pdf
 
Armor of Light, you dare to post a link to this? :whistle:

“A short history of the Hootenanny Mass & other absurdities” ???
 
Armor of Light, you dare to post a link to this? :whistle:

“A short history of the Hootenanny Mass & other absurdities” ???
Oh, come on! You should at least read it first. It written in a comedic style…thus the title…

Give it a look! 😃
 
I’ve never been on a forum where there weren’t at least a few people I strongly disagreed with.
 
Armor of Light, you dare to post a link to this? :whistle:

“A short history of the Hootenanny Mass & other absurdities” ???
I just read part of it and it’s humorous and a little satirical but not at all what you’re thinking. I suspect if the whole thing were posted here word-for-word the moderators could not find one thing objectionable in it.
 
I just read part of it and it’s humorous and a little satirical but not at all what you’re thinking. I suspect if the whole thing were posted here word-for-word the moderators could not find one thing objectionable in it.
👍

Exactly…

scroll down and read say…the last 3 or 4 chapters for an accurate view on the overall theme…

Thanks Rich.

Totally appropriate.
 
Oh, come on! You should at least read it first. It written in a comedic style…thus the title…

Give it a look! 😃
With 100-plus pages, I surely am not inclined to spend my day reading it. I scrolled to the conclusions near the end, however, and it is simply another recital of the traditionalist bias that some find so offensive in these fora.
Pg. 107: The Second Vatican Council said nothing requiring the use of popular music at Mass, about removing altars and altar rails, about removing icons and images, about standing for communion. Nothing was ever mentioned about the face to face confessions or face to face Masses. Fasting was never forbidden, rosaries and novenas and benediction of the Blessed Sacrament were never suppressed. Chalice veils and maniples and beautiful vestments were never abolished. Study the documents. Put back the boundary stones. They were there for a reason.
He then follows his bias with a lecture about the removal of communion rails, saying, “The removal of the communion rails is the Pelagian heresy in stone.” [Pg. 108] He then decries communion in the hand, communion received standing, and believes priests should celebrate ad orientem.

So, you don’t think this pits the EF against the OF? I expected as much when you said you obtained this from Fisheaters. This is the very kind of MIS-information that an innocent member absorbs from the website. They come to believe that the OF is just not faithful to V-II, despite the many documents authorizing what this priest objects to.

I agree with his interjection of “Say the Black, do the Red.”
 
Now a word to my own brethren the stick in the mud, curmudgeonly, reac- tionary, traditional types. Lighten up on the New Mass. If you are one of those folks that think that the new Mass is somehow less, somehow not quite as holy, and worst of all, one of those who think it is not valid, it is here that we part company. Have you no trust in God? Do you think the Holy Spirit is incapable of guiding the Church? The New Mass, as I have described it and as the Council Fathers (sorry, there were no Council Mothers as far as I can tell) envisioned it, is a very beautiful thing. They envisioned a reverent Mass with much Latin, traditional postures and gestures, with the celebrant facing the Lord, when appropriate, facing the people when appropriate. The new Mass was supposed to involve kneel- ing, genu ection and so on. They envisioned a Mass in which the treasury of sacred music continued and Gregorian chant had pride of place, though allowance was made for a limited use of local music for pastoral reasons provided that music was of an appropriate nature. 115 Well if all that’s true, how have we ended up with the triumphalist, narcis- sistic, battle-of-the-bands lunacy that passes for liturgy? I have spent half a year explaining that and I am not going to repeat myself. I would however like to explain, at least in my own limited understanding, why we have the new Mass in the rst place: Three simple words THE HOLY SPIRIT. The Holy Spirit anticipated the wild ride. Blessed Pope John and the Council Fathers invoked the Holy Spirit and convened the council, giving a mandate to streamline the liturgy; they could not have seen what the world would become in forty years. They could have known nothing of handheld computer phones so common that eight-year-olds would have them. Who could have imagined the world wide web, the fall of Marxism, a roaring Chinese economy and an heroic, growing Chinese Christianity, as well as a resurgent Islam, (though Hilaire Belloc had warned us.) They couldn’t have imagined, arti cial birth control claimed as a civil right and enforced abortions as a civil duty. Would they have believed anyone who told them that lth would be available 24 hours a day on handheld televi- sions and that computer access to pornography would be defended by leftist librarians as a right even for children? They couldn’t have imagined gay pa- rades led by Irish Catholic mayors. They couldn’t have imagined television commercials in prime time with nearly naked models hawking things to en- hance etc. (family column). They would have wept to imagine the depravity of modern society and, in nitely worse, that some of the clergy would plunge themselves and the good name of Holy Mother Church into that sea of lth. Certainly, they could not have imagined the collapse of education that was to aict the generations raised by television sets and day care providers. Could they have possibly known that, in a wave of pseudo-tolerance, academic excellence would take a back seat to political correctness? Who knew that the great universities, secular and Catholic alike, would produce generations of culturally and sometimes functionally illiterate graduates who thought themselves brilliant? Had the Council Fathers a clue, that forty years of politically correct, ideo- logically anti-Catholic religious education, largely taught and controlled by people who had turned their backs on religious life itself, would produce two whole generations of Catholics who learned nothing more about the faith than that Jesus loves me and this is how you hold your hands for rst Com- munion? Who could have imagined that the heritage of two thousand years 116 of art and wisdom, of saints, martyrs and scholars would be threatened with extinction in the blink of an eye? I’ll tell you who THE HOLY SPIRIT! We live in a world that cannot chew gum and walk at the same time. We think we are brilliant, but we are among the stupidest generations in history. We think we are wise and knowing be- cause we can do swell things with computer graphics and the latest software, but we moderns are the least personally productive and the least individually competent group of people since the fall of the Roman empire. When I was a lad, people still knew how to play musical instruments. Now they know how to play a radio. We listen to whatever music we please on handheld devices, but pull the plug and we are bored with the wind in the trees and the chirping of birds. In the same vein, we can’t spell, but we can access spell check. We can’t add or subtract, but we can work a calculator. Have you ever been in a fast food restaurant when the computer is down? The pierced and painted sophisticates who work there can’t make change for a ve dollar bill! We don’t talk to one another; we text short shallow messages. We can communicate by key board but there are precious few who can actually read or write handwritten messages. We don’t know how to grow a potato or raise a chicken or build a chair. When the power goes out, and at some point it will, if human history is any indicator, millions and millions of suave urbanites will wander around indignant that the government is not doing anything and then they will starve to death. I am not urging you to run to a commune in the mountains. Jesus said, \But when these things begin to take place, stand straight and lift up your heads, because your redemption is at hand." (Luke 21:28) Don’t run for the mountains this time. Stay. Live among those who don’t know the Lord, because they are going to need Him. If you abandon them, who will help them? The world has collapsed before and will collapse again. For two thousand years, the Church has been the source and guardian of the civilization. Don’t you think the Holy Spirit is still in charge? The great di erence between the New Mass and the Old Mass is that the Holy Spirit designed the New Mass to be LINEAR.
 
To echo CurlyCool’s words earlier, “yes you can find some truth contained within the falsehood.”
The New Mass, as I have described it and as the Council Fathers …] envisioned it, is a very beautiful thing. They envisioned a reverent Mass with much Latin, traditional postures and gestures, with the celebrant facing the Lord, when appropriate, facing the people when appropriate. The new Mass was supposed to involve kneeling, genuflection and so on. They envisioned a Mass in which the treasury of sacred music continued and Gregorian chant had pride of place, though allowance was made for a limited use of local music for pastoral reasons provided that music was of an appropriate nature.

Well if all that’s true, how have we ended up with the triumphalist, narcissistic, battle-of-the-bands lunacy that passes for liturgy? I have spent half a year explaining that and I am not going to repeat myself. I would however like to explain, at least in my own limited understanding, why we have the new Mass in the rst place: Three simple words THE HOLY SPIRIT.
[The bolded wording is the only smidgeon of truth among his biased statements that clearly depicted the OF in an extremely negative light.]
Then he concludes with this: The Holy Spirit anticipated the wild ride.

Sorry, I did not find this booklet humorous.
 
Armor of Light,

You have your opinion, and I have mine. Let’s stop trying to influence me to LIKE your article. It reminds me of someone who might say,

“God made us to be beautiful, and called his creation good.
But you are fat, ugly, and sloppy. However, I LOVE YOU.”

A word of truth after the insult is never going to fly.
 
To echo CurlyCool’s words earlier, “yes you can find some truth contained within the falsehood.” The New Mass, as I have described it and as the Council Fathers …] envisioned it, is a very beautiful thing. They envisioned a reverent Mass with much Latin, traditional postures and gestures, with the celebrant facing the Lord, when appropriate, facing the people when appropriate. The new Mass was supposed to involve kneeling, genuflection and so on. They envisioned a Mass in which the treasury of sacred music continued and Gregorian chant had pride of place, though allowance was made for a limited use of local music for pastoral reasons provided that music was of an appropriate nature. Well if all that’s true, how have we ended up with the triumphalist, narcissistic, battle-of-the-bands lunacy that passes for liturgy? I have spent half a year explaining that and I am not going to repeat myself. I would however like to explain, at least in my own limited understanding, why we have the new Mass in the rst place: Three simple words THE HOLY SPIRIT. [The bolded wording is the only smidgeon of truth among his biased statements that clearly depicted the OF in an extremely negative light.] Then he concludes with this: The Holy Spirit anticipated the wild ride.
His take on VII is spot on.

Look I’m not here to spread heresies or get people in a twist about OF / EF… I just wanted to pass it along. I know there are some kind of wild notions in there…but just like people are saying about Fisheaters…gotta be a little careful sometimes.

I’ve never even seen the traditional latin mass or EF! I go to a regular hand holding clapping affirming slide show presentation church and am quite happy to know that the Lord is there and that we have a wonderful dedicated priest to celebrate Mass in the first place! I’d like it to be more reverent, but CAF has taught me that I just have to go with it.

Now Fisheaters is a different story altogether! I’m not going to even ask them what I should do because…like I said…I have my answer.
 
Armor of Light,

You have your opinion, and I have mine. Let’s stop trying to influence me to LIKE your article.
If your objection was that you didn’t like it, I’m sure no one would care. But you argued that its full of error and malice toward the Church. Aren’t you prepared to defend that position?
 
I already did, Rich C.

So have hundreds of other posters all over the forum, in one respect or another. Check out the items I mentioned using the search facility. No need to rehash it all, for it would derail this topic.
 
I already did, Rich C.

So have hundreds of other posters all over the forum, in one respect or another. Check out the items I mentioned using the search facility. No need to rehash it all, for it would derail this topic.
I still think you’ve fixated up on his subpoint that certain indults that crept into the Ordinary Form have caused many people to lose sight of what the Mass is really about, and ignore the parts where he says that he has nothing to do with those who disparage the Ordinary Form and where he says he is glad we have two forms of the Roman rite.

He clearly states that the Holy Spirit is in charge and no one should doubt that He was the Author of the OF Mass (something even I’m not sure of) so I don’t see how you can be so hard on him. Liturgies aren’t infallible. I don’t have a problem with debating the prudence of certain rules about the Mass (though perhaps I can’t here).

I’m going to e-mail the link to some of my Catholic friends later to see what they think.

Anyway, I won’t post more about this here because I’m as much at fault as anyone for derailing this thread and I should stop.
 
Rich C:
he says that he has nothing to do with **those who disparage the Ordinary Form **
Let’s go back to my example, can we?

“God made us to be beautiful, and called his creation good.
But you are fat, ugly, and sloppy. However, I LOVE YOU.
… but I will have nothing to do with anyone else who disparages you.” :rolleyes:
 
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