Traditionalist Methodist denomination in the works

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Sad, but you could tell they were headed down that path. Before I officially left protestantism I dabbled a bit with UMC. They are into Yoga which is spiritual darkness. I heard a pastor from UMC essentially say that the three wisemen were pagans and so paganism and different ideas than gospel must be okay. Heresy if I’ve ever heard it.

I’m glad the conservatives in the denom are standing up against this non-sense. We will leave the light on for you if you want morally sound teaching here in the RCC. We have many liberals over here as well, but they are held in check by the servant of scripture which is the teaching Magisterium of the Church.
 
HomeschoolDad said:
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JonNC:
From the Lutheran perspective, by the power of the Holy Spirit at the speaking verba by the pastor. Beyond Christ’s words, it is an incomprehensible miracle.
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What is “the speaking verba”? I’ve never heard the word “verba” before.
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Specifically, the words of institution.
 
Based on the proposed protocol, only the solidly conservative congregations and annual conferences will pull out. The requirements rig the game somewhat in favor of remaining, for congregations that are split or territories dependent on financial support.

But with conservatives gone, the UMC
will no doubt take a very strong position in favor of legalized abortion, with no limits.
 
TheLittleLady said:
Pick up an old Methodist hymnal and you will read Marian hymns. They have moved further and further from their roots. It came as a shock more than a decade ago when I told some lifelong UMC family members that the UMC allowed abortion on demand, they at least do recognize that it may be regrettable Book of Resolutions: Healing of Post Abortion Stress | The United Methodist Church
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commenter said:
Based on the proposed protocol, only the solidly conservative congregations and annual conferences will pull out. The requirements rig the game somewhat in favor of remaining, for congregations that are split or territories dependent on financial support.

But with conservatives gone, the UMC
will no doubt take a very strong position in favor of legalized abortion, with no limits.
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But don’t they do that already?

“Regret” can exist in many avenues of life — moving to that city you’ve never quite liked or never felt like it was “home”, letting that sweet little Ford Mustang slip through your hands, not marrying that girl who wanted to tie the knot right then, while you were busy “finding yourself” or finishing that degree, not majoring in that field you really enjoyed and were good at, getting that neck tattoo… the list goes on and on.

A Christian’s response to having had an abortion needs to be a little stronger than just “regret”.

(And yes, I’ve done all of the above, except for that neck tattoo business. I just threw that in for dramatic effect. I don’t do tattoos.)
 
Angannas said:
Interesting that the Methodists in America split over slavery, in the UK they were always strongly opposed and many would not buy sugar because slave labour was involved. My home town, in the far west of Cornwall, was, until recently, strongly Methodist, and still today, because of the history of slavery, there are Methodists and members of other similar denominations who will not have sugar in their tea because of slavery.
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American Methodism was originally anti-slavery in outlook, and there were always American Methodists opposed to it. The Christmas Conference that organized the Methodist church in America mandated that laity and preachers emancipate their slaves. The problem was that Methodism became a major religious force in the South and over time many Methodists felt that accomodation with slavery, at least in the South, was required if they were going to have influence within that region of the country. But the original anti-slavery impulse never left and ultimately became an irreconcilable split between North and South.
 
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gracepoole said:
How is the Real Presence achieved if they don’t believe in transubstantiation?
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When thinking of Methodists, it’s helpful to look at what Wesley believed:
However, Wesley did believe in the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, putting him in opposition to Zwingli’s memorialist view as well. Much of the eucharistic teaching of John and Charles Wesley is found in the volume of Hymns on the Lord’s Supper, which they first published in 1745. As a preface to the hymnbook, Wesley printed an abridgment of Daniel Brevint’s Christian Sacrament and Sacrifice, the structure of which forms the outline for the grouping of the hymns under three categories: a memorial of Christ’s past sufferings, a means of present graces, and a pledge of future glory. If the first sounds Zwinglian, the other two counter that impression. In spite of some memorialist language in Wesley, he does not conform to the Zwinglian model. The Lord’s Supper is a real means of grace. At the Table, there is a real communion with the living Christ and a real reception of his body and blood, albeit in a spiritual—not physical—manner. In the sacrament, believers receive not only the sign of Christ’s body, but along with the sign the thing signified—namely, all the benefits of his incarnation and passion.

Wesley’s view is one of “Spiritual Presence” closer to that of Calvin than to that of either Luther or Zwingli. This reflects his Anglican heritage, because Cranmer’s eucharistic thought was arguably closer to Calvin’s than to that of the other Continental Reformers. But Wesley’s conception of spiritual presence differs somewhat from Calvin’s. Whereas Calvin spoke of the presence of Christ’s body in terms of power, mediated to us by the Holy Spirit (Institutes 4.17.24–33), Wesley stresses the presence of Christ in terms of his divinity—the whole Trinity being present in the Supper bestowing the benefits of Christ’s redemptive act (see Hymns on the Lord’s Supper, nos. 53 and 155).
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When abortion was declared a rght by the SC we all DISCUSSED where the end to this progressivism would take us. Now almost 60 years later we find it has no end except at the second coming of Jesus. Now babies are left to die on a cold surgical table. Elderly are left to die by families and governments, all for convenience. Now children can choose there sex, and 2 men can declare themselve married.
Children are now have the gift of wisdom. Time to return to Tradition in GOD.
 
twoshoes said:
When abortion was declared a rght by the SC we all DISCUSSED where the end to this progressivism would take us. Now almost 60 years later we find it has no end except at the second coming of Jesus. Now babies are left to die on a cold surgical table. Elderly are left to die by families and governments, all for convenience. Now children can choose there sex, and 2 men can declare themselve married.
Children are now have the gift of wisdom. Time to return to Tradition in GOD.
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I would correct the bolded to say that children are coached into pretending they are the opposite sex. No one can choose their sex/gender.
 
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Exactly. The UMC stand has been (I am paraphrasing) “abortion is sad, but, it is the decision of a woman and her doctor”.
 
I wonder why the orthodox Methodists planning to leave the UMC won’t join the Free Methodists. I see very little differences between them.
 
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I belong to a conservative Methodist congregation. Our pastor told us today to remain calm and that nobody but God knows for sure what will happen until General Conference in May. At that point, everything will be clarified. In the meantime, he requested continued prayer for Church leadership.

For our congregation, I would expect an overwhelming vote in favor to go with new traditional Methodist denomination.

The part that bothers me the most (besides the expected split itself) is that the liberal branch will keep the UMC name as if the traditionalists were the ones who are deviating from long-held Methodist Christian positions on sexuality.

More info at Key Bishops and Advocacy Group Leaders Propose Plan of Separation - Wesleyan Covenant Association
 
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Could you elaborate on what an ‘ordinate’ is/does? I apologize that I am unfamiliar with this term or how it differs from typical RCC membership and beliefs. Thanks.
 
ATraveller said:
I wonder why the orthodox Methodists planning to leave the UMC won’t join the Free Methodists. I see very little differences between them.
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The Free Methodists are a holiness denomination. The UMC and Free Methodists are both Methodist churches, but the Free Methodists would emphasize “entire sanctification” as more of a crisis event whereas traditional United Methodists would probably emphasize “Christian perfection” as more of a process.

I’m not sure but that would be my guess. That would be a subtle theological difference. But I have heard of conservative UMC churches leaving for the Free Methodists before, so that has been an option for individual congregations.
 
GKMotley said:
Methodists minimally motley?
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It’s crazy when you realize churches as different from each other as the Nazarene Church and other holiness churches along with the Pentecostal churches all are Methodist renewal movements.
 
Tommy999 said:
Could you elaborate on what an ‘ordinate’ is/does? I apologize that I am unfamiliar with this term or how it differs from typical RCC membership and beliefs. Thanks.
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An “Ordinariate” is kind of a non territorial equivalent to a diocese, usually organized along national lines, for a special purpose. It is under an “Ordinary” who may or may not be a bishop.

For instance all Catholic members of a nation’s Armed Forces and their families can, if they choose, belong to the Military Ordinariate, if the Church established one.

Pope Benedict established 3 Ordinariates for Anglican converts to Catholicism, (UK, Australia, US/ Canada). A convert priest, layperson, or “Anglican Use Parish” can choose to affiliate with this diocese-equivalent, or they can go with their geographic diocese. This Ordinariate has specific liturgical features that continue Anglican heritage.

Some have proposed that this might meet the needs of Methodist converts to Catholicism as well.

The Ordinary sits with the National Conference of Bishops. One reason he might not be consecrated or considered a Catholic bishop would be if he were married. Most Anglican or Episcopal clergy converts are married. If they are now Catholic priests, they can’t remarry if their wife dies.

Because of their small Ordinariate parishes, it is possible that besides having faculties from the Ordinariate, priests may also request faculties to serve in their geographic diocese as well, part time.

Ordinariates are not the same as an Eastern Catholic Church, or a Personal Prelature, the only one currently is Opus Dei.
 
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Sounds like what the Dutch Reformed Church (of which I was once a member) did, namely that they voted to allow Same sex “marriage” but allowed individual congregations to opt out.

Sadly, ze Germans want to impose the exact same thing on the universal Church with their “Binding Synodal Process”.
 
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