Traditionalists and the Liturgy of the Hours

[Windmill]

Hipster,

sorry about being too technical. I misunderstood your OP and thought you had maxxed out on the Shorter Christian Prayer book and were wanting to go beyond that. It appears, instead, that you are discovering the beauty of praying the Divine Office and want more information. My hat is off to you for wanting to learn about this inspiring, yet often-neglected, treasure in the Church.

With what I gather from your posts, I’d probably go this route. I’d buy the “Christian Prayer” book and find a friend/fellow parishioner/priest/monastery/etc… where you can learn the LOTH and get questions answered. It not only allows you to have a “mentor”, but it also gives you a prayer partner. Once you’ve gotten used to the “flow” of things, then you are in a better position to decide if you want to continue with this prayer form, and if you want to expand it to include more readings, Latin, etc…

God Bless!

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Inasmuch as the Divine Office is only required for religious, the prayer of the Divine Office by laity is therefore a private devotion. Consequently, I would respectfully suggest that the laity may pray any edition they so desire. Of course, that would make praying the Divine Office with others difficult, at best, but there are no consequences for the faithful who may opt to pray any older edition.

Yes they can but when they choose to use texts that are not approved by the Church then they can in no way claim to be praying the Liturgy of the Hours nor can they say that they are participating in the daily prayer of the Church.

 

[ricmat]

Here are some links that should be helpful - related to Christian Prayer.

sqpn.com/scripts/praystation.php
(links on the left side of page to morning and evening prayer mp3s.)

liturgyofthehours.org/todays_prayers_christian_prayer.htm
(a list of the pages in Christian Prayer) for each element, for each day of the month.

 

[Hipster_Doofus]

One of the things that throws me is the supposed singing of antiphons. I can’t read music and I don’t know the tunes of mot of the hymn in the back of “Shorter Christian Prayer.” And I’ve always been baffled by hymn books that list the traditional melody pattern up in one corner–who but a musicologist knows how they go?

I was so off course it wasn’t until a few months ago when I read something that said, in effect:“Psalm:22”–I thought it meant to read the 22nd Psalm, when in fact it was telling me to turn to the Psalm on Page 22.

No telling what I’m still leaving out.

 

[demerzel85]

There is a version of the pre reformed (traditional) Benedictine Breivary avalible at this site www.farnboroughabbey.org
in Latin and English, has all the offices except matins I think. Also Baronious press is in the process of releasing a 1962 Breviary set. Personally I use the Shorter Christian prayer because its 1. cheap 2. what my apartment mates use.

Until Baronius completes the 1962 Latin-English Breviary, one has to be content with the 1963 Monastic Diurnal to have the Latin-English feature.

That being said, the Monastic Diurnal is surprisingly small for something that is entirely in Latin-English, and far more portable than the modern equivalents of the entire day hours (ie Everyday Prayer, Christian Prayer, etc) The real leather cover, gilded pages and Latin-English in short is well worth the investment.

Personally, I pray the Benedictine Day Hours and prefer the 1 week psalter to the current 4 week. The traditional breviary is also more beautifully translated compared with the rather banal translation used in the LOTH/DO. (Just compare Psalm 50 in the Douay Rheims and Psalm 50 in the Grail Translation) In terms of the ordinary, I personally find the learning curve of 1962 breviary much lower than the current one.

Oh yes just one last minor thing. All antique Roman breviaries from 1945 to 1963 use the Pius XII Psalter. This is different from the new prints that use the Vulgate Psalter. In terms of antique breviaries however, the Benedictine and Dominican ones during this period still contain the Vulgate Psalter. I mention these two since there are copies floating around on the internet. If I remember correctly, the breviaries of religious with their own rites did not switch to the Pius XII psalter.

 

[PKinsale]

Y’all may find this critical review of the New Office interesting.

musicasacra.com/publications/sacredmusic/pdf/divineoffice.pdf

ByzCath, is it not correct to say that previous versions of the Office are approved by the Church, unless they have been officially abrogated?

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

ByzCath, is it not correct to say that previous versions of the Office are approved by the Church, unless they have been officially abrogated?

No, you are correct. Using previous versions that have not been officially abrogated is using the Divine Office but not all that has been put forward here is that.

 

[PKinsale]

No, you are correct. Using previous versions that have not been officially abrogated is using the Divine Office but not all that has been put forward here is that.

Yes, good point. There are some versions that are of Anglican origin and there are also some more modern versions without imprimatur.

 

[Andreas_Hofer]

Ahh–but WHICH older form of the Divine Office?

Unknown to many, there was a radical redistribution of the Psalter and restructuring of the Divine Office (especially in Matins) at the time of Pius XI.

Somehow, trads never seem to criticize this change. Are they even aware of it?

There is actually a post up right now on The New Liturgical Movement that makes note of the unprecedented discarding of tradition by fiat under Pope St. Pius X. It’s something many traditionalists have long been aware of, and is indeed in need of criticism despite the saintliness of the man. I think the SSPX should show a little more awareness of this fact, but other than that those who are well-informed about traditional liturgy would almost all concede that point.

 

[Jakub]

I do agree…

“The traditional breviary is also more beautifully translated compared with the rather banal translation used in the LOTH/DO. (Just compare Psalm 50 in the Douay Rheims and Psalm 50 in the Grail Translation)”

james

 

[Hipster_Doofus]

And is it even possible for someone not in priestly or religious life–someone with a 9-to-5 job, say, to have the time and opportunity pray the Divine Office? I’m lucky if my lunch break falls at the right time for me to pray the noon Angelus.

 

[ElizabethPH]

Hipster,

sorry about being too technical. I misunderstood your OP and thought you had maxxed out on the Shorter Christian Prayer book and were wanting to go beyond that. It appears, instead, that you are discovering the beauty of praying the Divine Office and want more information. My hat is off to you for wanting to learn about this inspiring, yet often-neglected, treasure in the Church.

With what I gather from your posts, I’d probably go this route. I’d buy the “Christian Prayer” book and find a friend/fellow parishioner/priest/monastery/etc… where you can learn the LOTH and get questions answered. It not only allows you to have a “mentor”, but it also gives you a prayer partner. Once you’ve gotten used to the “flow” of things, then you are in a better position to decide if you want to continue with this prayer form, and if you want to expand it to include more readings, Latin, etc…

God Bless!

Can’t you buy guides that come with either the ‘Christian Prayer’ and the Liturgy of the Hours? Do they not help in learning how to use them. I use the online one at ebreviary and universalis…(I use universalis during the week M-Th and ebreviary only has night time prayers and all the other prayers only on Fridays and Sundays…(with no charge) so I use universalis the rest of the time. I can’t afford the books even the less expensive Çhristian Prayer. But I have also heard one ‘maxes’ out on that as well and ends up getting the LOTH 4 vol anyway. That’s what I’m saving up for. Are they really that hard to learn?

Thanks

 

[ElizabethPH]

And is it even possible for someone not in priestly or religious life–someone with a 9-to-5 job, say, to have the time and opportunity pray the Divine Office? I’m lucky if my lunch break falls at the right time for me to pray the noon Angelus.

I think it’s just a matter of being willing to make the time. Sometimes it’s not easy. I’ve heard folks say they can only fit in one prayer. If that was the case for me I would pick the Office of Readings.

As far as versions, I am just happy to say the version that I do; I think I’m pretty traditional but don’t think, to keep in that traditional vain I must seek older versions.

 

[Joannm]

I think it’s just a matter of being willing to make the time. Sometimes it’s not easy. I’ve heard folks say they can only fit in one prayer. If that was the case for me I would pick the Office of Readings.

As far as versions, I am just happy to say the version that I do; I think I’m pretty traditional but don’t think, to keep in that traditional vain I must seek older versions.

I would suggest Morning or Evening Prayer if you can only do one. These two offices are the hinges of the Liturgy of the Hours. Deacons are required to pray MOrning and Evening prayer at the very least if they cannot fit in other hours or the Office of Readings. Sometimes, if I do not have the time I will pray Morning and Evening Prayer and just read the second reading from the Office of Readings since they are usually from the saints or other important texts.

 

[Andreas_Hofer]

And is it even possible for someone not in priestly or religious life–someone with a 9-to-5 job, say, to have the time and opportunity pray the Divine Office? I’m lucky if my lunch break falls at the right time for me to pray the noon Angelus.

While the Office is intended to structure the entire day around prayer, there is a actually a large amount of flexibility granted to those obliged to recite it as to precisely when the hours are sung - especially if they are secular clerics.

So, for instance, one might pray Lauds at the proper time and tack on lauds, then at midday recite all the day hours together, combine Vespers and Compline in one sitting, etc.

 

[ElizabethPH]

I would suggest Morning or Evening Prayer if you can only do one. These two offices are the hinges of the Liturgy of the Hours. Deacons are required to pray MOrning and Evening prayer at the very least if they cannot fit in other hours or the Office of Readings. Sometimes, if I do not have the time I will pray Morning and Evening Prayer and just read the second reading from the Office of Readings since they are usually from the saints or other important texts.

That’s nice I read that someplace. I suppose I just like the Office of Readings and if I had to choose one prayer that would be it. But thank you so much for reminding me that the Morning and Evening Prayer are the chief prayers. I do manage to get them all in very well. I also have been thinking of getting the Christian Prayer and then taking the Office of Reading off the Internet, each day. Definitely would be cheaper

 

[ddeluna]

That’s nice I read that someplace. I suppose I just like the Office of Readings and if I had to choose one prayer that would be it. But thank you so much for reminding me that the Morning and Evening Prayer are the chief prayers. I do manage to get them all in very well. I also have been thinking of getting the Christian Prayer and then taking the Office of Reading off the Internet, each day. Definitely would be cheaper

If you buy the St. Paul edition of Christian Prayer is comes with a pretty good sized selection from the Office of Readings, including Patristic writings. I use this version (identical in all other content to Christian Prayer published by Catholic Book Publishing Co.) now and virtually never miss my daily office of readings, along with morning and evening prayer. Doing this has proven to myself that I am ready to commit to the the 4 volume LOTH. You may want to invest in the St. Paul edition, and try it. If you discover you just aren’t reading the office of readings, then you saved yourself $140. If you find you want the 4 volume set, then get it and you’ll have the small St. Paul ed. one volume to take on the plan/train, etc. It has all the same morning and evening prayer (maybe daytime too, not sure) as the 4 volume set.

Having said all this, it’s true the little St. Joseph guide that you can pick up for use (only) with the Catholic Book Publishing edition of Christian Prayer makes praying each day idiot-proof. It tells you the page numbers to refer to. HOWEVER, I think the difficulty in learning to pray the hours is over-stated. Yes, you’ll find that I have asked questions here on praying the hours, but not all that much. I picked up a copy of Divine Office for Dodos and I was pretty much off to the races. I happen to have a copy my pastor gave me of the Catholic Book Pub edition, with the St. Joe’s guide. I use the guide pretty much just to check myself once in a while on a feast or something, but not that often. The DOFDodos was enuf.

BTW, I’m a tiny bit of a traditionalist. I pray the rosary every day all in Latin and a few other prayers in the LOTH in latin as well. BUT, I want to pray WITH the Church, what the Church is praying - I want to pray what is the NORM, what the vast majority of clergy (virtually all) pray, what the Church today urges us to pray. So I pray the current English edition of the LOTH - so that I can say I do (just to myself, I guess), in fact, pray the (official) LOTH, rather than a private devotion. Another reason was practical - I had to learn it, so I needed to learn the mainstream version so I could get help - from the Dodos book, this forum, etc.

And I only pray those prayers in Latin that I already know and can pray from memory in English. I don’t see any point in praying in Latin something I have no idea what I’m saying. I can hear God asking, “you don’t even know what you’re saying to me!” I love the sound of Latin, but that’s not enuf. I should know what I’m saying to God, and since I don’t really “know” Latin, I only pray those prayers I already know. Once I do, then I begin reciting the Latin version. I just picked up a pronunciation guide and downloaded some MP3s of folks (including Pope John XXIII praying the Pater Noster!) praying the prayers I want to learn, in Latin. Latin is not like learning Cantonese, so you pick up the patterns and pretty quickly learn the meaning of the words.

Praying the LOTH has been transformational and I highly recommend it for anyone wanting to improve their spirituality and REALLY fall in love with the Lord.

 

[ddeluna]

Another comment on the Pauline version of CP.
I prefer the Pauline format used in this book to that offered by the Catholic Publishing company, because I better understand when to include the antiphon. Why? I LOVE having the antiphon printed BOTH before AND after a psalm. (the “red book version” generally only prints the antiphon before its psalm, so page ruffling becomes a distraction.) Plus the Pauline ed. prints the Benedictus and Magnificat on every page where needed. WAY less page flipping. PLUS, the hymns are right there on every page where called for. I do now know when the antiphon is called for but when you’re praying the hours at 6:30 while fighting back the yawns, and still not at full mental power, it helps A LOT to have the antiphons right there where and when called for. Dramatically less page flipping with the Pauline ed. I love it so much I’m sure I will miss it terribly when I move to the 4 vol.

 

[lak611]

No, you are correct. Using previous versions that have not been officially abrogated is using the Divine Office but not all that has been put forward here is that.

Is there any problem with an American Catholic choosing to use the current version that is approved in the UK rather than the current American version? It still has Church approval. I like the renderings better in the UK version.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Is there any problem with an American Catholic choosing to use the current version that is approved in the UK rather than the current American version? It still has Church approval. I like the renderings better in the UK version.

For someone not obligated to pray the Office, no there is nothing wrong with it but technically you are not praying the Divine Office that the Church is praying.

The UK Office is approved by the UK Church and is also used in Ireland and Scotland. It is not approved by the American Bishops for use in America.