Traditions lost or discarded post-Vatican II?

[gracepoole]

I think it’s a kid got a new toy situation. So, I say it will pass.

I’m not sure what you’re referring to, anixx. The customs themselves are a new toy? I think the point here is that some customs were practiced for centuries before being abandoned. Why picking them up again would constitute a “new toy” is confusing.

I guess it depends on how this question is worded for the thread to remain open and not totally deleted.

:ehh: Individual comments, perhaps. But I don’t believe there’s anything in the question’s phrasing that violates forum rules. And it certainly wasn’t asked in a snarky way that means to privilege one period of Church history over another.

Another tradition that seems to have fallen out in many places is ringing the Angelus bells and associated prayer.

To be honest I don’t thinks it’s purely a matter of VII itself, but rather the lack of teaching our children paired with the mobility of society over the past 50 years. That mobility doesn’t encourage a solid foundation for a Catholic culture to flourish. Generally the only traditions that people can draw on are those from their immediate family rather than the community at large.

That’s an excellent point. I’m not claiming that VII spurred on all sorts of changes in isolation. In reality, it was probably a myriad of factors. Last night I listened to a talk on rogation days and the priest noted that in the middle ages, a rogation procession would take place – it included a red dragon that represented Satan. I’d never seen or heard of anything like that and I began wondering what other traditions have been lost.

Thank you to those of you who have shared ideas so far! Keep 'em coming.

 

[johnnyc176]

Prayers after Low Mass. My current parish says them even after an OF but that was not the case in previous parishes I have lived in.

 

[KD8TZC]

Just this evening I was whining to my husband about behaviors in church. It seems that sanctity has grown out of favor. No one crosses themselves with holy water upon entering and exiting the church. Hardly anyone genuflects anymore. Everyone talks and laughs like they’re waiting for a movie to start. **Used to be that you knelt for as long as the tabernacle was open. No one cares now. Some don’t even kneel after receiving the Eucharist. **And the Leonine Prayers should definitely make a comeback. I’m seriously considering going to one of the Traditional churches in my area. It’s getting to be too much.

I know in the Cleveland Diocese, they had us all stand prior to communion (after the sign of peace) and stay that way until after communion is over. My wife and I are not that old, but we will kneel after we get back to our pew after communion until the good Father is seated and the tabernacle is all locked up. I don’t care for the standing after the sign of peace… I really wish some of that reverence would come back. Many people though will also kneel after they come back from communion.

There was a tradition during the pre-Pope Paul Vi Latin Mass that one would strike ones chest with a closed fist and say “Lord have mercy” every time the chimes rang during the Consecration. No one seems to do this any more.

Chimes?? What chimes? Ours were taken away long ago and we were told that the bishop ordered it. I miss the bells and the incense that used to permeate the mass back in the 1970’s and 1980’s when I was in school.

 

[edwest2]

I think there are a lot of traditions that were no longer taught post-Vatican II, although they were observed by those who remembered them. I think a lot of that had to do with changes in society at the time. One quote I’ve heard from those alive during the Second Vatican Council (semi-jokingly) was, “What do we believe?” “I don’t know. They’re deciding that at the Council.”

I was there before and after Vatican II, in Catholic school. The nun in our Religion Class explained what had happened, but aside from a new, smaller altar in front of the old, the priest facing the people and the Mass being in English (for the most part), nothing changed. We had days of devotion, Easter procession, Stations of the Cross, the blessing of the baskets of food for Easter, and that beautiful Monstrance the priest placed on the altar for Eucharistic Adoration. I could go on.

None of that had anything to do whatsoever with outside society. Let me be clear: there were dissidents inside the Church in the late 1960s that caused confusion, ruin and misdirection. All the research I’ve done points to that time period where a coordinated assault began within the Church, some of it being people falling for deceptions, others because people wanted the Church to be their way - not the right way.

Peace,
Ed

 

[ccmcmg]

I know in the Cleveland Diocese, they had us all stand prior to communion (after the sign of peace) and stay that way until after communion is over. My wife and I are not that old, but we will kneel after we get back to our pew after communion until the good Father is seated and the tabernacle is all locked up. I don’t care for the standing after the sign of peace… I really wish some of that reverence would come back. Many people though will also kneel after they come back from communion.

Chimes?? What chimes? Ours were taken away long ago and we were told that the bishop ordered it. I miss the bells and the incense that used to permeate the mass back in the 1970’s and 1980’s when I was in school.

The two nearest dioceses kneel for the Agnus Dei and after communion. I have visited maybe 10 different dioceses over the past year for work, and each have knelt after communion (Atlanta area, Savannah GA, New Orleans, Denver, ABQ, WV, DC, St Louis and a few others).

Many parishes (not all) of the 30 churches we’ve attended in our diocese and others, have bells during the Eucharistic Prayer, at the Consecration as well as the raising of the Body and Blood of Christ. Incense is more rare, unfortunately.

 

[jeannetherese]

Before Vatican II readings were done ad orientem with the reading at the right side of the altar and the Gospel at the left.
Following Vatican II at my childhood parish, the readings were (for several years) read by the priest, now facing the congregation. He read the readings from at a lectern at the right side of the altar and the gospel from an ambo at the left side.
Over time, the right side lectern disappeared and all readings occurred at one side of the altar with lectors reading the first two readings and Father reading the Gospel.

The earlier tradition continues at my FSSP parish. Those interested in exploring this and some of the other traditions mentioned on this thread might see if there is an FSSP parish in their area.

 

[johnnyc176]

I wonder if people still silently say my Lord and my God when the priest raises the Host?

 

[BernadetteM]

I wonder if people still silently say my Lord and my God when the priest raises the Host?

I do, also cross myself. Our priests celebrate ad orientem and with or without an altar rail we kneel to receive. Of course if one can’t kneel then they stand. We only receive the Host, but once they have a church building of their own, I assume Communion will be by intinction.

All these traditions can return if Bishops and priests so desire. I also attend a Latin Rite parish and the priest celebrates ad orientem and many of the traditions posted here are still being done.

God Bless

Bernadette

 

[Zeno11]

In my home parish in Ireland, all these traditions such as the Angelus ringing at 12 and 6, daily rosary before Mass, blessing oneself, Eucharistic adoration etc are all still going strong. What has changed is the number of people who attend services - when I was growing up, every single person in the town attended weekly mass. Now it’s probably half the town.

The thing that we have lost since the 60s is Benediction on a Sunday evening. As a child I loved Benediction. Maybe it;s because it was at night, with lots of candles, maybe it was all the Latin singing or the smell of the incense, but as a child it totally captivated me and awakened a sense of the sacred in me. I would love to attend a benediction like that again!

 

[Casilda]

I was there before and after Vatican II, in Catholic school. The nun in our Religion Class explained what had happened, but aside from a new, smaller altar in front of the old, the priest facing the people and the Mass being in English (for the most part), nothing changed. We had days of devotion, Easter procession, Stations of the Cross, the blessing of the baskets of food for Easter, and that beautiful Monstrance the priest placed on the altar for Eucharistic Adoration. I could go on.

None of that had anything to do whatsoever with outside society. Let me be clear: there were dissidents inside the Church in the late 1960s that caused confusion, ruin and misdirection. All the research I’ve done points to that time period where a coordinated assault began within the Church, some of it being people falling for deceptions, others because people wanted the Church to be their way - not the right way.

Peace,
Ed

I have asked this before, what has the church done to reconcile those who left because of outrageous changes that were injurious to their conscious, those who left the church to ‘protect’ their children? I am a revert and had a very hard time reconciling with the church, in fact, I dont think I have because I am not Roman/Latin, yet Catholic.

 

[Sunbreak]

Well, this probably has more to do with modern noise ordinances than Vatican II but I remember as a child hearing the church bells ring for every Mass and also at noon and 6pm every day. No one in the neighborhood would have thought of complaining. I miss hearing church bells.
One thing that my church did (and this was probably just a local church custom) - the first grade girls were dressed in long white hoop gowns and wore an open headpiece (not a veil) and these girls led all the processions during the year. They were called “angels” and led the procession of first communicants, led the Corpus Christi procession and whatever else came up. I don’t know if all first grade girls participated or only those whose parents would allow it since they had to buy this fancy outfit.
May crownings is something that every church used to do. It seems to be coming back in some parishes.
Corpus Christi processions are also coming back - I remember those too.
There used to be something called a 40 Hour Devotion. It was more than just adoration - there was a definite structure and formality to it, with a Mass starting and ending it.

 

[anixx]

I’m not sure what you’re referring to, anixx. The customs themselves are a new toy? I think the point here is that some customs were practiced for centuries before being abandoned. Why picking them up again would constitute a “new toy” is confusing.

I was not referring to the tradition, but to the new and anti-catholic behavior in some parts of the Church.
It’s something like this: What!? Now we can hold hands and sing-a-long protestant hymns at Mass? That’s great, let’s try it! mentality.

 

[Cat]

I wonder if people still silently say my Lord and my God when the priest raises the Host?

I was raised Protestant and spent the first 47 years in Evangelical Protestant churches. I never learned how to do this. It isn’t dogma or doctrine, so it wasn’t taught during our RCIA.

If Catholics want traditions to return, they need to teach others. We can’t learn what we’ve never heard.

 

[Cat]

I am indeed blessed.

I attend a large parish (several thousand members) in a very modern-looking church building.

We do almost every “tradition” mentioned on this thread so far. The Angelus bells. The St. Michael prayer. The bells during Mass. Women who wish to veil. Prayers after Mass. etc.

I’ve played for Masses in several parishes in our city, and many of them do the same.

AND…we also sing contemporary music! Two of our Masses are done entirely with contemporary music done by singers/musicians who are good at it.

Just because you add new traditions doesn’t mean you have to jettison the old ones. And just because you keep the old beloved traditions doesn’t mean that there is no room for good contemporary music and new traditions.

The only tradition I think needs to go forever and never be brought back is cigars. I can see absolutely nothing good and everything bad about this practice and associating it with Catholicism.

 

[johnnyc176]

I do, also cross myself. Our priests celebrate ad orientem and with or without an altar rail we kneel to receive. Of course if one can’t kneel then they stand. We only receive the Host, but once they have a church building of their own, I assume Communion will be by intinction.

All these traditions can return if Bishops and priests so desire. I also attend a Latin Rite parish and the priest celebrates ad orientem and many of the traditions posted here are still being done.

God Bless

Bernadette

I think they are returning at least here in the south.

 

[johnnyc176]

If Catholics want traditions to return, they need to teach others. We can’t learn what we’ve never heard.

Well…now you know. Your welcome!

 

[johnnyc176]

And just because you keep the old beloved traditions doesn’t mean that there is no room for good contemporary music and new traditions.

Been there done that. I lived through the ‘spirit’ of Vatican II thing with the bongos and guitars and…no thanks.

Anyway this thread is about traditions prior to Vatican II so we’ll leave it at that.

 

[Seamus_L]

I wonder what the pct is of Catholic churches where not even a small group says the rosary ?

 

[jeannetherese]

My local parish brought back praying the Rosary once a week last year.

As a child, I recall stands with banks of small votive candles with little saint shrines, where one might kneel and light a candle and say a prayer for a particular intention. there was a little box to drop a coin which might help purchase additional candles.

These stands disappeared for many years.

This is another tradition which has come back in both my childhood parish and my local parish.

 

[TimothyH]

Keep in mind that all of these things are piety, not holiness. Piety has to do with religious obligations and expressions. For the human person, holiness is a decrease in sin and an increase in virtue.

***Strive for peace with all men, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord. *(Hebrews 12:14)

Holiness - a life of heroic virtue - is what gets us to heaven. Piety can help us to advance in holiness but some confuse the two.

As johnnyc176 noted, I see most of the pious customs and practices noted in this thread at parishes here in the South.

-Tim-