E
Eden
Guest
It seems the Protestant response is, O.K. it’s in the Bible that to divorce and remarry is committing adultery. But Jesus taught us love and not to judge so he didn’t really mean it.
- Status
J
JSmitty2005
Guest
:clapping:
B
blackbelt
Guest
Because a Minister chouse to move forward with the new couple in the GRACE of Jesus Christ which is the NEW covenant that we are all healed by his strips and washed by his blood and chouses Not to Judge but teach in love and light as Jesus did and leave the judging up to God, where as the Vatican chouses to be a Legalist as the OLD covenant was bringing rule to the people under its athority , using a loop hole around it to say it was never a marriage in the first place. Sounds like more of a high priced lawyer playing with words to get his client off the hook.
E
Eden
Guest
You have confirmed what I suspected. Protestants think Jesus did not mean what He said about marriage and divorce. You dismiss the clear teaching from Christ in scripture because it is too difficult to follow and makes you feel uncomfortable.
Just don’t come here telling us we don’t know the bible or that we aren’t biblical though. You have no ground on which to stand.
B
blackbelt
Guest
Wana bet Im born and raised Rc im not protestant you people assume to much, and i did not say I agree with divorce either because your right Jesus did not teach that what I am saying is Pastors see divorce for what it is a Sin where as RC tryes to get around it
E
Eden
Guest
Pastors see divorce as sin but allow the adulterous second marriage to be blessed in their church? That makes no sense.
Your assertion that the Church “gets around” divorce with annulments could be an entirely different thread.
The topic is “bible only”, “biblically-based” Protestants who allow second and third marriages despite these marriages being called “adulterous” by Christ in the Bible.
Also, you respond as if you are Protestant. It does not help that you have also not provided “religion” information in your profile.
S
sandusky
Guest
Eden said:
And you can’t have that now, can you. Porneia is a biblical grounds for divorce.
Eden said:
Including adultery.
I’m not interested in a discussion on the word “porneia,” except to tell you that it is a biblical grounds for divorce.
It depends on which of the divorced persons is asking to be remarried. If it is the faithful spouse who was abandoned, there is no problem. If it is the unfaithful spouse, he would not be remarried in my church, in fact, usually by the time the situation reaches Mt 18:17, that person has been gone from the church for some time. If we know where that one is attending church, if indeed he or she is attending another church, we do notify that pastor.
If the divorce occurs because of an adulterous affair, and the faithful spouse does not want to reconcile, then there is no problem with remarriage.
IMHO, you have an overly simplistic view of this. The unfaithful spouse is put out of the church, and is treated as an unbeliever. As such, 1 Cor 7 allows for the divorce if the unfaithful spouse does not repent and demands a divorce.
You are comfortable with “annulments” because they are not called “divorce.” But essentially, they are the same thing.
You refuse to listen to what I have said with regard to Mt 18, and 1 Cor 7. What can I do?
B
blackbelt
Guest
No you refuse to see thst fact that Rc also blesses 2 nad 3rd marrages as long as an anulment is granted, they give divorce a difrent name but its the exact thing.
I dont care of religion nither does Christ, that is why I did not put it in my profile, Christianity is a relationship with Christ not religion, but regardless the question was aske whay they bless remarages and it was answered which also the RC does too but you chouse not to accept it
B
blackbelt
Guest
K
Kirane
Guest
This of course is ridiculous. First of all, the RCC has been granting annulments like crazy and just about anyone can get one. And as far as divorce is concerned the Church requires that the couple get a divorce first before they get the annulment. And the rate of divorce among Catholics is just about the same as among society at large, there is no difference in the numbers.
Instead of attacking other Churches for granting divorces, why doesn’t the RCC try to clean up its own show and stop the explosion in annulments among Catholics?
J
JSmitty2005
Guest
Wow, Kirane. I think that we actually agree on this. :bigyikes:
E
Eden
Guest
If you want to start an annulment thread, please do. This thread has been derailed by Protestants discussing annulment as a deflection from the fact that allowing divorce and remarriage in their churches is not biblical.
As far as requiring civil divorce before annulments, the Church in America prefers not requires civil divorce to avoid lawsuits for “estrangement of affection”.
The definition of annulment is not divorce. That the amount of annulments granted is too high is not something I feel I can decide. I’m not part of the decision-making process and the evidence presented for an annulment is supposed to remain private between the person seeking an annulment and the tribunal.
Most importantly, do you really believe that your argument that Catholics are “just as bad” is a valid answer for why “bible only” faiths have unbiblical traditions like divorce and remarriage?
K
Kendy
Guest
Actually, divorce in the catholic church is slightly lower than evangelicals.
21% catholicism; 29% evangelicals are divorced.
Kendy
B
blackbelt
Guest
The United States is especially noted for the number of annulments its church tribunals issue. In 1968, 338 annulments were granted in the United States – today the figure is around 40,000, approximately 70 percent of the total worldwide. More than 80 percent of U.S. requests for annulments are approved (in Italy, by way of comparison, only 37 percent are granted). Some have criticized the relative ease with which American Catholics can obtain annulments as a form of “Catholic divorce.”
Nevertheless, even in the United States the number of annulments falls far short of the number of Catholic divorces, meaning that most divorced people never attempt the process. Some Catholics report they find annulments either disingenuous – because they are asked to claim that their marriage never existed – or demeaning because of the personal detail required in order to establish what church law calls a “defect of consent” to marriage
Nevertheless, even in the United States the number of annulments falls far short of the number of Catholic divorces, meaning that most divorced people never attempt the process. Some Catholics report they find annulments either disingenuous – because they are asked to claim that their marriage never existed – or demeaning because of the personal detail required in order to establish what church law calls a “defect of consent” to marriage
J
john_ennis
Guest
I’ve noticed that the Protestants I’ve brought this up to (who criticize the Catholic Church for not following the teachings of Christ) always respond that the Catholic Church’s annulment process is really granting of divorce and remarriage in disguise.
They rarely if ever acknowledge that in fact divorce/remarriage is a sin and every Church that teaches otherwise is teaching against Christ.
Instead, they seem to say, “Well, you guys do it too–you just won’t admit it.” As if that’s a justification. Their response would make for a good second debate, but it’s not an answer to the first question.
Of course, concerning the relevance of their answer–even if every priest and bishop in the Church violated this teaching, the fact remains that the Catholic Church teaches and has always taught exactly what Jesus said: if a marriage actually took place, man cannot dissolve it, and divorce and remarriage amount to adultery.
Peace.
John
They rarely if ever acknowledge that in fact divorce/remarriage is a sin and every Church that teaches otherwise is teaching against Christ.
Instead, they seem to say, “Well, you guys do it too–you just won’t admit it.” As if that’s a justification. Their response would make for a good second debate, but it’s not an answer to the first question.
Of course, concerning the relevance of their answer–even if every priest and bishop in the Church violated this teaching, the fact remains that the Catholic Church teaches and has always taught exactly what Jesus said: if a marriage actually took place, man cannot dissolve it, and divorce and remarriage amount to adultery.
Peace.
John
J
john_ennis
Guest
Considering how we all are selfish and tend to rationalize, I’d say it’s just possible that, say, a guy who’s divorcing his wife 'cuz he’s tired of her is going to find something objectionable about an anullment process that most likely would never validate what he’s trying to do.
Peace.
John
K
Kay_Cee
Guest
That’s an interesting way of looking at it. However, I’m wondering if both parties are allowed to remarry, because that sure is what I see in most denominations. And I’m wondering too what happens if, after both parties have remarried, the offending person returns to the faith.
Jesus, who is God, does say that a spouse who divorces and then remarries commits adultery. Don’t both parties have to sign divorce papers? Don’t both then have to agree to the divorce? If that’s the case, don’t they both divorce each other?
As for your comment, “what else can be done?” I would say that it is not divorce so much that God condemns (although in Malachi 2: 16 He says He hates divorce) but remarriage after it (which he flat out calls adultery). No one is ever obligated to marry after divorce.
B
blackbelt
Guest
john ennis:
This is true, but the point I’m making is that rregardless of denomination we are all sinners and we all make mistakes in interpretations of the bible, thats one reason why were children, personally the christian community needs to unite
J
john_ennis
Guest
Any abuse of the annulment process is not because the Church’s magesterium interprets improperly–the Church has never taught that divorce and remarriage are acceptable. Abuses are due to the application of this process.
Individuals who commit this sin may indeed be misinterpreting Scripture. In the case of many Catholics, though, the interpretation is no secret–they may be ignorant, or they may just be defiant.
Peace.
John
B
blackbelt
Guest
john ennis:
100% in agreement with you, and this is the exact same thing that other donimations experance but one thing they do not allow is divorce but they reconigise that it happends. You see in the end only God knows the depths of ones heart thi sis why we are not to judge
- Status