Traditions of Man - Prohibition of Alcohol

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fredericks:
I cannot imagine that Paul would stand in front of our youth group, most of their friends belong to gangs, most are not being raised by two parents, many have been abused by alcoholic parents, had their peers impregnated while intoxicated, and preach a message about how you should drink in moderation when you are an adult.
1 Tim. 5:23 - Paul tells Timothy to drink not just water, but a little wine for the sake of his stomach and frequent ailments.
 
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Fredricks:
Drugs are banned, so that would be just two if that were the case. I would never favor banning alcohol, that did not work. I am a huge proponent of religious freedom. Do you have a reason for these baseless accusations.

Impugn character.

I direct people to organizations that help in my day job. In my job outside with my church, we help the best we can through the generous donations of those who want to see our community protected from these abuses.
Fredericks continues to make arguments about why addictions are destructive but again he has not defended the tradition of man to prohibit alcohol use found in some denominations.

I don’t know how one can say “bible only” and then see a clear contradiction to their teachings right in the bible and not find it troubling.

The prohibition of alcohol by these denominations is clearly not biblical, yet they will be the first to claim Catholics are not biblical! There is nothing in the bible that contradicts Catholic teaching. Here is a very clear case in which some “bible only” religions contradict the bible!
 
A couple of issues on this thread:
People are throwing the word prohibit around too easily and I think the Catholics are picturing some sort of legal remedies. How do Catholics think Non-Catholics “prohibit” this?

BH
 
Eden,

What advantages does a priest have in being celibate?

the answer is a life where he can focus more on God, Charity, and Love.

In the bible it tells that it is sinful to be a drunk, so in the case of sustaining from drinking alcohol, that person would never be in a drunkin state. each individual has to make his or her own mind as an adult about drinking alcohol, a few drinks are ok but too many causes drunkenes or alcoholism.

So the result again just like celibacy has to be positive, yes?
 
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BrianH:
A couple of issues on this thread:
People are throwing the word prohibit around too easily and I think the Catholics are picturing some sort of legal remedies. How do Catholics think Non-Catholics “prohibit” this?

BH
Firstly, nowhere did I generalize and say “non-Catholics prohibit” this.

Please read the first post again:

For those who belong to denominations which prohibit the drinking of alcohol, how do you justify this tradition of man which contradicts the scriptures and still claim to be a denomination which is biblically based?

I am asking those who belong to denominations which prohibit the use of alcohol by members within their sect to justify such a teaching because it is clearly not “biblically based”.
 
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Eden:
Firstly, nowhere did I generalize and say “non-Catholics prohibit” this.

Please read the first post again:

For those who belong to denominations which prohibit the drinking of alcohol, how do you justify this tradition of man which contradicts the scriptures and still claim to be a denomination which is biblically based?

I am asking those who belong to denominations which prohibit the use of alcohol by members within their sect to justify such a teaching because it is clearly not “biblically based”.
What denominations “prohibit”?
Do you mean discourage?
 
Texan in DC:
In the bible it tells that it is sinful to be a drunk, so in the case of sustaining from drinking alcohol, that person would never be in a drunkin state. each individual has to make his or her own mind as an adult about drinking alcohol, a few drinks are ok but too many causes drunkenes or alcoholism.
Jesus was celibate but he also turned water into wine. So, is moderation biblical? Yes. Is the complete prohibibition on the use of alcohol by all members of a denomination biblical? No.
 
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Eden:
Jesus was celibate but he also turned water into wine. So, is moderation biblical? Yes. Is the complete prohibibition on the use of alcohol by all members of a denomination biblical? No.
I do not know of any denominations that “prohibit” alcohol. I know of several that discourage its use because it causes Non Christians to stumble when they see us drinking as well.
Are you familiar with a denomination that officially “prohibits” it?
I think your lack of respones may be due to your use of the word prohibit.
My church discourages it.
Please PM me when you get a chance Dr. Fredricks.
I feel your pain 🙂 🙂

BH
 
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BrianH:
I do not know of any denominations that “prohibit” alcohol. I know of several that discourage its use because it causes Non Christians to stumble when they see us drinking as well.
Are you familiar with a denomination that officially “prohibits” it?
I think your lack of respones may be due to your use of the word prohibit.
My church discourages it.
Baptists
Please PM me when you get a chance Dr. Fredricks.
I feel your pain 🙂 🙂

BH
You are the ones who come here to a Catholic site, attack the teachings of the Church and spread false teachings. Although you were open about what belief system you are representing. Fredericks is not willing to disclose that.
 
Some fundamentalists have endorsed strict codes of conduct that prohibit even moderate consumption of alcohol and tobacco, dancing, mixed bathing, gambling, or engaging in secular cultural activities such as watching movies or listening to rock and roll music. These codes may also require adherents to dress in certain ways going beyond simple modesty (for example, by prohibiting women from wearing pants or men from having long hair). In most cases, fundamentalists draw a connection between these features of the surrounding culture and the immoral or unbelieving way of life that they feel is represented by them, and by avoiding conformity to the secular world in such small but signal ways, they hope to protect their souls from corruption and call the world to salvation and holiness, by their example and “testimony.”

www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamentalist_Christianity
 
baptiststandard.com/1999/6_23/pages/alcohol.html

You will notice that Southern Baptists are ASKED to sign a pledge. I think people who use the word prohibit and Baptist do not realize how autonomous, despite their rhetoric, they are.
Even theSBC has no real muscle to their threats.

I would suspect outright prohibition by a denomination is quite rare. 10% at most but that would be a guess.
BH
 
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Eden:
Some fundamentalists have endorsed strict codes of conduct that prohibit even moderate consumption of alcohol and tobacco, dancing, mixed bathing, gambling, or engaging in secular cultural activities such as watching movies or listening to rock and roll music. These codes may also require adherents to dress in certain ways going beyond simple modesty (for example, by prohibiting women from wearing pants or men from having long hair). In most cases, fundamentalists draw a connection between these features of the surrounding culture and the immoral or unbelieving way of life that they feel is represented by them, and by avoiding conformity to the secular world in such small but signal ways, they hope to protect their souls from corruption and call the world to salvation and holiness, by their example and “testimony.”

www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamentalist_Christianity
I would agree with refraining from all of those things as well. They would hurt your testimony.
 
BrianH said:
baptiststandard.com/1999/6_23/pages/alcohol.html

You will notice that Southern Baptists are ASKED to sign a pledge. I think people who use the word prohibit and Baptist do not realize how autonomous, despite their rhetoric, they are.
Even theSBC has no real muscle to their threats.

I would suspect outright prohibition by a denomination is quite rare. 10% at most but that would be a guess.
BH

Well, I would like to know how someone belonging to that 10% can justify such a teaching and say that it is “biblically based”.
 
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BrianH:
I would agree with refraining from all of those things as well. They would hurt your testimony.
The word in the wikipedia article is **prohibit **not refrain.

Did Jesus hurt his testimony when he turned water into wine or when He instituted the Eucharist at the Jewish seder meal, which required the use of wine?

Luke 7:33-34 Did Jesus hurt his testimony when He drank wine?

1 Tim. 5:23 - Did Paul hurt his testimony when he told Timothy to drink not just water, but a little wine for the sake of his stomach and frequent ailments.

Gen. 27:25 - Did drinking wine in God’s favor hurt Isaac and Jacob’s testimony?

Neh. 8:10 Did Nehemiah hurt his testimony?

Psalm 104:15 - Did the Psalmist who writes that “wine gladdens the heart of a man” hurt his testimony?

Ecclesiastes 9:7 - Does God approving of drinking with a merry heart hurt His testimony?

Amos 9:14 - Does God hurt His testimony when he declares that His people shall plant their vineyards and drink their wine?

Zech. 10:7 - Does God hurt his testimony when He says that when He saves His people, their hearts shall be glad as with wine.
 
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Eden:
Well, I would like to know how someone belonging to that 10% can justify such a teaching and say that it is “biblically based”.
"Paul teaches in 1 Corinthians chapter 8 on a grey area of his time: whether or not Christians should eat meat that was sacrificed to idols. He explained that some Christians have “knowledge” about the fact that there is only one God, and meat sacrificed to idols was not really sacrificed to anything. However, other Christians did not have this same “knowledge”, and if they saw another Christian eating meat that was sacrificed to an idol, their conscience might be “…emboldened to eat those things offered to idols…” To these, this would be a sin in their own minds because of their weaker understanding. Paul warns us of letting our liberty become a “stumbling block” to those who are weaker, or have less understanding. He says in verses 11 and 12, “And because of your knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died? But when you thus sin against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ.”

At the end of the chapter, Paul offers his solution to this problem. He says in verse 13, “Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I will never again eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble.” Notice that he does not say, “Therefore, let us try to help others to understand our liberty.” Why? Because of a basic Christian doctrine that should be practiced by every denomination across the board…"

Things have changed. When people drank thousands of years ago, there was not the rampant problems we have now.
I know that when I have drank, on rare occasions, in front of my friends who are not believers, I have been labeled a hypocrite.
That is why I would never do it again.
BH
 
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BrianH:
I would agree with refraining from all of those things as well. They would hurt your testimony.
Dancing hurts your testimony too?

Yes, there is such thing as “dirty dancing”. But what about folk dancing, square dancing, ballroom dancing, and some “modern” forms of dancing? Unjustly condemning *all *dancing is not biblical either. Dancing can be an expression of joy. The women of Israel danced after they crossed the Red Sea (Ex. 15:20), and David danced before the Ark of the Covenant (2 Kings 6:12-17).
 
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Eden:
The word in the wikipedia article is **prohibit **not refrain.

Did Jesus hurt his testimony when he turned water into wine or when He instituted the Eucharist at the Jewish seder meal, which required the use of wine?

Luke 7:33-34 Did Jesus hurt his testimony when He drank wine?

1 Tim. 5:23 - Did Paul hurt his testimony when he told Timothy to drink not just water, but a little wine for the sake of his stomach and frequent ailments.

Gen. 27:25 - Did drinking wine in God’s favor hurt Isaac and Jacob’s testimony?

Neh. 8:10 Did Nehemiah hurt his testimony?

Psalm 104:15 - Did the Psalmist who writes that “wine gladdens the heart of a man” hurt his testimony?

Ecclesiastes 9:7 - Does God approving of drinking with a merry heart hurt His testimony?

Amos 9:14 - Does God hurt His testimony when he declares that His people shall plant their vineyards and drink their wine?

Zech. 10:7 - Does God hurt his testimony when He says that when He saves His people, their hearts shall be glad as with wine.
. If people ONLY drank wine in moderation, they do not.
 
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Eden:
Dancing hurts your testimony too?

Yes, there is such thing as “dirty dancing”. But what about folk dancing, square dancing, ballroom dancing, and some “modern” forms of dancing? Unjustly condemning *all *dancing is not biblical either. Dancing can be an expression of joy. The women of Israel danced after they crossed the Red Sea (Ex. 15:20), and David danced before the Ark of the Covenant (2 Kings 6:12-17).
All teenagers do is dirty dance anymore, trust me on this one.
It is a matter of conscience though. Yes, I do think some forms are acceptable and would not hurt my testimony, but none that you mentioned.
 
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BrianH:
. If people ONLY drank wine in moderation, they do not.
Of course people drink in moderation.

How can anything be clearer in the bible but that God made wine for our enjoyment and it is not sinful to drink in moderation?

Obviously there are some people who have an addiction to alcohol but your answers seem to be saying that God does not know human nature and that Jesus was mistaken to turn water into wine.
 
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BrianH:
All teenagers do is dirty dance anymore, trust me on this one.
It is a matter of conscience though.
The prohibition on dancing would mean all kinds of dancing including ballet. This is again a good example of traditions or teachings created by men in faiths that are “Bible only” but are not biblically based.
Yes, I do think some forms are acceptable and would not hurt my testimony, but none that you mentioned.
Ballroom dancing would hurt your testimony? Folk dancing too? How about a waltz?
 
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