Transfiguration

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Cara_Serrano

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I was meditating on the Transfiguration after Mass yesterday, and I had a question that I hope someone can answer:
Moses and Elijah appeared with Jesus at the Transfiguration, but where exactly did they go after it was over? They couldn’t be in heaven because Christ had not yet died and opened the gates, but apparently not in hell because they were conversing face to face with the Lord. Any ideas?
 
They went back to Heaven from whence they came. We know Elijah did not die but was assumed into Heaven. 2 Kings 2:11. Moses is more problematic. We know he died and God buried him in a place unknown to any man. Deuteronomy 34:5-6. However, we have an apocryphal book called The Assumption of Moses, a line of which is actually quoted in Jude 9 (But Michael the archangel, when he disputed with the devil and argued about the body of Moses, did not dare pronounce against him a railing judgment, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!”).

So, we have the Transfiguration and we have apocryphal evidence of his assumption. I think it is very likely Moses was assumed after his death.
 
Cara_Serrano said:
I was meditating on the Transfiguration after Mass yesterday, and I had a question that I hope someone can answer:
Moses and Elijah appeared with Jesus at the Transfiguration, but where exactly did they go after it was over? They couldn’t be in heaven because Christ had not yet died and opened the gates, but apparently not in hell because they were conversing face to face with the Lord. Any ideas?
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***Hi, Cara Serrano!

…some have decided that they are in limbo–some state where they are not in Heaven but not in hell but not in the temporal world…

I think that the problem they have is that, at times, they tend to be overly legalistic–to the point that they prescribe to God what is written in the Holy Scriptures as though Yahweh God would be bound by what He reveals to His Creatures…

There are two specific passages where Jesus demonstrates this not to be so:
a) The Samaritan Woman (St. John 4:19-26)–though He keeps His identity a secret and avoids any opportunity to acquire fame, Jesus reveals to the Samaritan woman that He is the Messiah… but not only that but He also reveals that there is a new economy arising… one in which the old methods will no longer be applicable: “God is spirit and those who worship must worship in spirit and truth.”

b) Then there’s His revelation to Martha: “I am the resurrection and life.” …all the time Martha is thinking that her brother will be resurrected at the end of times while Jesus, God, knows that He will resurrect Lazarus on that very day and at that very moment–God does not need to wait for any specific time to accomplish anything that He Wills!

It is the same with Heaven… why would Jesus tell the criminal crucified next to Him that he would be with Him on Paradise on that very day, if He could not deliver? (St. Luke 23:43) …and don’t fall for those stories about Paradise being “somewhere in time;” the tree of life is smack in the middle of Paradise, and Paradise is found in Heaven (Apocalypse 2:7; 22:1-2).

Then there are the four creatures and the twenty-four elders (Apocalypse 4)… and then there’s the call to the Believers found in Hebrews that tells us that we are called to the communion of the Saints (12:22-24)–how can Enoch, and Moses and Elijah walk with Yahweh God and not be made perfect?

And if they are not found in Heaven, why would God remove them from their existence only to place them in limbo–a sentient existence where these three men (Enoch, Moses and Elijah) would have to endure time immemorial with nothing else to do but wait till the end of time?

Maran atha!

Angel***
 
Thank you, jcrichton, for your reply. I understand how Jesus could promise paradise to the Good Thief because, by the end of the day, paradise would be opened by Jesus’ death. I just didn’t understand how it could be opened to anyone before His death.
 
Heaven is beyond Time. So those holy persons who died before Christ do not literally have to wait somewhere for centuries to pass for Him to die and open the gates of heaven. These holy persons get into Heaven through Christ, but this occurs beyond Time.
 
Ron_Conte said:
Heaven is beyond Time. So those holy persons who died before Christ do not literally have to wait somewhere for centuries to pass for Him to die and open the gates of heaven. These holy persons get into Heaven through Christ, but this occurs beyond Time.
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Thanks! Your answer helped. I had forgotten the difference between chronos and kairos time.
 
Cara_Serrano said:
Thanks! Your answer helped. I had forgotten the difference between chronos and kairos time.
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Also, don’t forget. “All things are possible with God”.

God would probably have a secret side door to let others in, eh? You know, “What’s the password?”
 
Cara_Serrano said:
Thank you, jcrichton, for your reply. I understand how Jesus could promise paradise to the Good Thief because, by the end of the day, paradise would be opened by Jesus’ death. I just didn’t understand how it could be opened to anyone before His death.
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Wasn’t Heaven opened at the Ascension? Where was the good thief for those 43 days?
 
NotWorthy said:
I think when Jesus rose from the dead is when He opened the gates.
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Dunno! I heard one priest use the good thief as evidence of purgatory. “Since the gates of Heaven had not been opened, the good thief had to be somewhere. He wasn’t in heaven. He wasn’t in hell. Well, then, where the hell was he? Purgatory.” Got quite a few laughs. We’ll know when we get there.

Christ’s peace.
 
po18guy said:
Wasn’t Heaven opened at the Ascension? Where was the good thief for those 43 days?
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Hi, po18guy!

…what I have attempted to explain is that Jesus is God and God has no limitations; what is written in the Holy Scriptures is written for our benefit not to limit God in any manner.

When Jesus said “today,” He did not mean one day or just wait till the end of times… He meant “this very day.”

Martha was very aware of the resurrection of the dead… she thought, as most who knew Jesus’ love for Lazarus and his sisters, that if only He had come before Lazarus had died that He could prevent his death… Jesus explained to her that He is the Resurrection and the Life: it is He who gives life and brings back from the dead! So He proceeded to resurrect Lazarus way before the “end of times;” granted, Lazarus was brought back into the temporal world, not as a spiritual being–this only further emphasizes the fact that God can do as He Wills!

Maran atha!

Angel
 
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