Transgender children

[Rau]

They don’t need to be fixed; they need to be loved for who they are – children of God.

They also don’t need to be lied to and told they can change their gender.

I don’t believe they are, in general, being lied to. I believe the aim is to ease suffering, though the means adopted may well be misguided.

 

[Allegra]

I don’t believe they are, in general, being lied to. I believe the aim is to ease suffering, though the means adopted may well be misguided.

When a doctor tells a transgendered man that he can make his delusion a reality with a never-ending series of cosmetic procedures that will cost him every dime he can get his hands on, you don’t think that’s lying? The “doctor” can’t really make the man a woman. He can only make him look more like a woman.

 

[Crown_of_Stars]

When a doctor tells a transgendered man that he can make his delusion a reality with a never-ending series of cosmetic procedures that will cost him every dime he can get his hands on, you don’t think that’s lying? The “doctor” can’t really make the man a woman. He can only make him look more like a woman.

They just look like drag queens. They must know they’re not really women, just because they had most everything about their physical appearance changed. There is no uterus, ovaries, cervix, none of the true female internal organs that make a woman a woman. This is just fact, that no one can deny, no matter what “side” you’re on.

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

What’s new is assigning this adult fetish onto a child. And do you really think that a person who is genuinely obsessed with the idea that they are the wrong sex suddenly stops suffering because they put on lipstick and hose or have a cosmetic surgery to install a fake penis? There is no surgery or hormonal therapy that can truthfully alter a person’s sex. Even attempting to bully everyone else into going along with the delusion isn’t going to make someone with this delusion sane. Look up the statistics, if you doubt it. The prevalence of depression, mental illness, self harm, a

nd suicide of self-identified transgender people does not decrease post surgery. Society is barking up the wrong tree on this issue. These people don’t need the world to play along. They need real help getting over the delusion of being the wrong sex. At any rate, two-year-olds don’t need to be involved in this at all. If’ Melanie likes pretending she’s Spiderman or Tom, that’s fine. She doesn’t need a doctor. She needs her mom to teach her that it’s okay to pretend to be someone else, but she is loved for herself.

Actually the data shows suicide and depression go down with HRT and SRS.

This is somewhat of different issue than a sexual preference. A person with this delusion obsessively insists that the physical reality of their body is “wrong”. It’s really much more similar to a person with body dismorphia syndrome, where they are convinced they are deformed and outrageously hideous, even though they appear normal to everyone else. Or certain types of anorexia, where they persistently believe they too fat when they are obviously grossly underweight. There are effective treatments for such disorders currently in use, and if society would stop wasting time pretending that the physical reality of one’s body was a casual choice that a person can make at will, there would probably be more meaningful research done on even more effective treatments. However, this disorder is different from those other disorders because it involves sex, and we all know that the cardinal rule of our current society is that any sexual thought, desire, preference, or act must be affirmed and normalized. (except rape and pedophilia…for now.)

Anorexia nervosa and GID are substantially different in that the latter is entirely aware of their body shape and it causes great distress whereas the former believes their body to be substantially different from how they are in reality. Put another way an anorexic girl believes she is fat when she is skinny and this causes her distress whereas a transman knows he has breasts and does not have a penis and this causes him distress.

This is the article I was looking for.

cnsnews.com/news/article/michael-w-chapman/johns-hopkins-psychiatrist-transgender-mental-disorder-sex-change

Parents make important decisions in the lives of their children. Sadly, this mom is doing her little girl immeasurable harm. Very sad. Glamorizing the OPs story just plants this idea in the minds of other parents who want their 2 minutes of fame.

That doctor has been debunked so many times on the forum it stopped being funny 10 times ago.

I actually know a family like this. They had three children at the beginning of their marriage, all boys. After the youngest got into high school, they got pregnant again and the mother was convinced that baby was the girl she always wanted, despite the opinions of the doctors. She decorated the room in neutrals because she was convince d the doctor was wrong. She was disappointed beyond belief when he was born and he really was a boy. She was actually hospitalized for almost two weeks for severe post-partum depression. Anyway, she seemed to get over it, but then the dad noticed that the mom kept buying toys that seemed really “girlish” to him. (Mostly dolls, stuffed animals, and house play toys like plastic food and dishes.) Her excuse was that it was only society’s gender dysfunctions that labeled those toys as “girl toys”, which he accepted. It was still strange though since she had bought nothing but trucks and tool toys with their older three.

Then all the sudden, when it was time for them to start considering which school to send him to, she completely deep sixed on him and began demanding home schooling, which they had never even discussed as an option and hadn’t even considered with their other three. He went along with that too. Then he found the trash bag full of dresses in the hall closet. Apparently a friend-of-a-friend from out of town dropped them off for her to give to another friend-of-a-friend and they hadn’t come to collect them yet. Then his neighbor made a comment about seeing a little girl playing in his yard… It was probably just the neighbor’s kid, sneaking over to play on their swingset.

It took the dad almost seven years to figure out that his wife was dressing up his son as a girl while he was at work and making him play princess tea party on a daily basis and that was pretty much the end of their marriage. He still lives across the street from my parents, and his son is a college student now. Fortunately, there were no doctors in those days that were willing to do hormonal manipulations on children or else his mother would have probably tried to get that done as well!

I actually at this point know a couple dozen transwomen and exactly zero had such an experience, many of them instead experienced severe rejection by parents.

 

[Rau]

When a doctor tells a transgendered man that he can make his delusion a reality with a never-ending series of cosmetic procedures that will cost him every dime he can get his hands on, you don’t think that’s lying? The “doctor” can’t really make the man a woman. He can only make him look more like a woman.

I’ve not seen or heard evidence of doctors - in general (or in particular, for that matter) - making that statement. I don’t doubt the existence of quacks, but to suggest, or give the impression, that all surgery of this kind is pursued at the egging on of quackery or “greedy, money hungry doctors” is without foundation.

 

[Allegra]

I actually at this point know a couple dozen transwomen and exactly zero had such an experience, many of them instead experienced severe rejection by parents.

Obviously. The neighbor kid was not transgendered at all in the first place. His mother was a sick woman. And there was no doctor at that time that would have agreed to attempt to “reassign” his gender in the early 90s. The husband put her out and she was only allowed to see her son for supervised visits every other Saturday and Christmas Eve.

But look at all the celebrity and support parents are now getting for the same exact messed up behavior. As I said before, this is the newest fad in “compassionate parenting”. I shudder to think what would have happened to that poor kid if he was born in this generation. The judge probably would have called the father an intolerant bigot and demanded that the hormones be started immediately. And the mother would have been hailed for her courage and put on the cover of magazines as “mother of the year”.

 

[Allegra]

I’ve not seen or heard evidence of doctors - in general (or in particular, for that matter) - making that statement. I don’t doubt the existence of quacks, but to suggest, or give the impression, that all surgery of this kind is pursued at the egging on of quackery or “greedy, money hungry doctors” is without foundation.

Really. Because I have managed to come across a couple of people who consider themselves transgender in my daily life. Both of them have had multiple cosmetic procedures done, which they have had to scrimp and save to afford, since they aren’t covered by any insurance. From what they’ve told me, they don’t do that sort of thing in a legitimate hospital. You have to go to one of these strip-mall plastic surgery clinics for that sort of thing. And yes, those places have a considerable reputations for quackery.

 

[Allegra]

I actually at this point know a couple dozen transwomen and exactly zero had such an experience, many of them instead experienced severe rejection by parents.

PS- That sort of illustrates my point anyway. It’s sad enough when an adult is distressed by a mental disorder to the point that they mutilate their own body. However, they ARE an adult and presumably they have had the opportunity to consider the consequences and decide what they really want. It’s entirely another story when this is being done to an innocent child.

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

Obviously. The neighbor kid was not transgendered at all in the first place. His mother was a sick woman. And there was no doctor at that time that would have agreed to attempt to “reassign” his gender in the early 90s. The husband put her out and she was only allowed to see her son for supervised visits every other Saturday and Christmas Eve.

But look at all the celebrity and support parents are now getting for the same exact messed up behavior. As I said before, this is the newest fad in “compassionate parenting”. I shudder to think what would have happened to that poor kid if he was born in this generation. The judge probably would have called the father an intolerant bigot and demanded that the hormones be started immediately. And the mother would have been hailed for her courage and put on the cover of magazines as “mother of the year”.

Good luck getting a licensed doctor to prescribe hormones before 16.

 

[Viki63]

That doctor has been debunked so many times on the forum it stopped being funny 10 times ago.
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Really? You’re talking about Dr. Paul R. McHugh, the former psychiatrist-in-chief for Johns Hopkins Hospital and its current Distinguished Service Professor of Psychiatry, the author of six books and at least 125 peer-reviewed medical articles?
I haven’t seen any debunking.
Dr McHugh says: “The most thorough follow-up of sex-reassigned people—extending over thirty years and conducted in Sweden, where the culture is strongly supportive of the transgendered—documents their lifelong mental unrest. Ten to fifteen years after surgical reassignment, the suicide rate of those who had undergone sex-reassignment surgery rose to twenty times that of comparable peers.” The article.
My brother had sex reassignment surgery, He later married a woman, claiming to be a lesbian. I feel very sad for him. Dr McHugh makes a lot of sense to me.

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[Joie_de_Vivre]

Really? You’re talking about Dr. Paul R. McHugh, the former psychiatrist-in-chief for Johns Hopkins Hospital and its current Distinguished Service Professor of Psychiatry, the author of six books and at least 125 peer-reviewed medical articles?
I haven’t seen any debunking.
Dr McHugh says: “The most thorough follow-up of sex-reassigned people—extending over thirty years and conducted in Sweden, where the culture is strongly supportive of the transgendered—documents their lifelong mental unrest. Ten to fifteen years after surgical reassignment, the suicide rate of those who had undergone sex-reassignment surgery rose to twenty times that of comparable peers.” The article.
My brother had sex reassignment surgery, He later married a woman, claiming to be a lesbian. I feel very sad for him. Dr McHugh makes a lot of sense to me.

.

It is not only false, but perniciously false to claim that it “rose to twenty times that of comparable peers” as they were matched to general population not to transgender people who did not undergo surgery and also they did not look at suicide attempt rate before surgery. Furthermore the increased suicide attempt risk only existed for those who had SRS before 1989 when the world was far more brutal towards transgender people.

 

[1990Domer]

I wouldn’t be so concerned if it just amounted to enabling a deranged adult. But this is so much worse than that. This is being done to CHILDREN! An innocent child acts out an innocent child’s fantasy at two, and the result is a childhood filled with brainwashing, visits to so-called “doctors”, and possibly the medical and surgical destruction and mutilation of her body! We aren’t enabling a delusional child at this point, we’re enabling a delusional parent and what we are enabling them to do is commit a massive violence to a helpless little girl!

You’re right. I did not make myself clear. I was assuming that people thought I meant enabling or endulging the adult. My bad.

 

[1990Domer]

Good luck getting a licensed doctor to prescribe hormones before 16.

Unscrupulous doctors run pill mills. I am pretty certain you can find docs to Rx hormones before 16. Why not? It may all be in the guise of mental health.

 

[1990Domer]

PS- That sort of illustrates my point anyway. It’s sad enough when an adult is distressed by a mental disorder to the point that they mutilate their own body. However, they ARE an adult and presumably they have had the opportunity to consider the consequences and decide what they really want. It’s entirely another story when this is being done to an innocent child.

God forbid a concerned party would call child services. The person doing the calling would have a lawsuit slapped on him/her, most likely.

 

[drac16]

This was foretold by Prophet Muhammad [peace be upon him]. He said that one of the signs of the Last Day is that women would give birth to their masters. That’s what you have here; you have a mother who’s a slave to her child’s desire and the overriding consideration is her child’s feelings.

So what if a child says, somehow without any help of mommy, that she wants to change genders? It’s our job to tell them that that’s not how the world works. There’s more to life than indulging in what your ego tells you to do. You have to teach a child to be disciplined.

 

[Allegra]

Good luck getting a licensed doctor to prescribe hormones before 16.

It would be difficult to find a licensed doctor that would agree to any of it. That doesn’t mean that such a doctor doesn’t exist. At any rate, the doctors that DO go along with this sort of thing are advocating for shutting down the puberty of little kids in order to prepare them for hormones, which is just as bad.

 

[InSearchofGrace]

This was foretold by Prophet Muhammad [peace be upon him]. He said that one of the signs of the Last Day is that women would give birth to their masters. That’s what you have here; you have a mother who’s a slave to her child’s desire and the overriding consideration is her child’s feelings.

So what if a child says, somehow without any help of mommy, that she wants to change genders? It’s our job to tell them that that’s not how the world works. There’s more to life than indulging in what your ego tells you to do. You have to teach a child to be disciplined.

Thank you for your post.

I appreciate learning that your particular sect shares the same value and worldview with families of other cultures. Sadly, Western society has slid first to endorsement of open homosexuality, then to same sex “marriage”, then to free expression of transgenderism and sex change. Now we have parents enabling transgenderism in children. The cultural elite is pushing individual will and desire of a very few over social and common good. These radical social experiments should give everyone pause. There are many of us who are deeply concerned about the picture being drawn of the future, of the world we are leaving for ALL of our children.
,

 

[Viki63]

It is not only false, but perniciously false to claim that it “rose to twenty times that of comparable peers” as they were matched to general population not to transgender people who did not undergo surgery and also they did not look at suicide attempt rate before surgery. Furthermore the increased suicide attempt risk only existed for those who had SRS before 1989 when the world was far more brutal towards transgender people.

It’s quite possible that you have more information regarding these studies than I, so you may be right. However I would assume that the doctor in question knows how to conduct a valid study, matching the study group against a comparable control group. There would certainly be an outcry if it were done incorrectly.

.

 

[Viki63]

One thing that bothers me about all this is, it gives people - mostly children – a warped view of their own sexuality. My daughter, for instance, informed me she must be gay, because she enjoys the company of boys more than girls, she likes wearing jeans and dislikes dresses, and she’s not sentimental.
I spent some time explaining that those cultural/individual differences do not define one’s gender, and she seems to agree, because she dropped the notion. But her view of femininity was clearly off, and I’m sure she’s not alone.

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[Joie_de_Vivre]

Unscrupulous doctors run pill mills. I am pretty certain you can find docs to Rx hormones before 16. Why not? It may all be in the guise of mental health.

If the patient did not actually want the hormones the doctor would be assured to be stripped of their ability to practice medicine in the US.

It would be difficult to find a licensed doctor that would agree to any of it. That doesn’t mean that such a doctor doesn’t exist. At any rate, the doctors that DO go along with this sort of thing are advocating for shutting down the puberty of little kids in order to prepare them for hormones, which is just as bad.

I don’t think you realize how stressful going through puberty in a way that feels contrary to gender identity is. A number of transgender people I know had puberty onset depression.

Thank you for your post.

I appreciate learning that your particular sect shares the same value and worldview with families of other cultures. Sadly, Western society has slid first to endorsement of open homosexuality, then to same sex “marriage”, then to free expression of transgenderism and sex change. Now we have parents enabling transgenderism in children. The cultural elite is pushing individual will and desire of a very few over social and common good. These radical social experiments should give everyone pause. There are many of us who are deeply concerned about the picture being drawn of the future, of the world we are leaving for ALL of our children.
,

The Islamic Republic of Iran isn’t exactly a secular Western country yet SRS and such have been legal for over 15 years.