Transgender In Love

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VeryWell said:
I did not see that bit. While harsh, I think there is actually a lot of truth to it when it comes to a number of cases. However, I’ll admit that I didn’t look very far into Courage, because its entire goal seems to revolve around fixing these matters through chastity, which, as has been reiterated several times, is something that I already practice and have done so to the best of my ability for as long as I’ve lived. I would like to note that, while it has done me much good in regards to avoiding the condemning homosexual act, it has done nothing to actually ease my disorder. While they are no doubt very similar, GID is not quite the same as SSA, because it deals with self as well as other people, and coping with it is not as simple as not having sex.

In any event, Courage’s efforts are commendable but not really relevant to the chaste romance that I am trying to discuss here.

I do appreciate the time and the effort and every single post here so far, but I would also appreciate some more specific advice or (name removed by moderator)ut!
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I have gone to many of the Courage conferences because my son has SSA and have never actually met anyone that had GID, but Dr. Richard Fitzgibbons is very familiar with this and is on the Courage resource page. I think there is one thing to be chaste and have SSA, but other issues that you may not be aware of that also has you rejecting the body that you were born with. It’s not about changing someone, but finding out why they have this issue in the first place that could lead to a healing of those problems that obviously could play a big part in GID. If someone could help you recognize what your issues are with GID would you not want to see what they are and if you could be helped? Since we cannot depend on our feelings, our intelligence should say this is playing in dangerous territory. You say the person understands. I am assuming that you were born a male and your friend is a male. If this is the case he already has issues that caused his SSA and it wouldn’t matter as long as your still a man even with cross dressing. He will still be attracted to the man part of you and yet still wants you to look like a women? What good would it do to tempt yourselves because you say your in love? Love is wanting the best for a person. Is this really the best for both of you or is it about satisfying a desire? Your calling it a romance. At the moment no sex is involved. But feelings are not trustworthy.

I think if you would have to ask the church, they would tell you that your thoughts are as dangerous as your actions and these could still be sinful or at least put you in the near occasion of it. The devil is very good at deceiving us.

Just to let you know Courage is a support group for both these issues and they are very sensitive, but there are reasons many people have these problems and these are the facts of the situations for some people as were stated from Couragae and how would you really know what yours is if you didn’t find out why you have them. Fr. Check is the director of the minitry and can be very helpful too. I don’t want to be insensitive to your feelings, but feelings can be dangerous and I am just thinking of this down the road and both of your salvations. I will keep you in my prayers
God bless
 
RoseMary131 said:
Hello njstevep,

What are cis-gender male and transgender male? Since you mention you are in a heterosexual dating relationship - one of you is female and one is male, but who is each one.

Peace.
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Cis-gender people are those that identify with their biological sex (most people are cis-gendered). A transgender person is one who does not. Njstevep is the biological male, and is apparently in a relationship with a biologically female person who identifies as male. I hope it turns out OK. :o

And to the OP- I hope your situation turns out OK, too. I can’t offer you any advice, other than telling you to pray about it and not violate your conscience. It seems you are trying very hard to do the right thing, and I applaud you! 👍
 
RoseMary131 said:
Hello njstevep,

What are cis-gender male and transgender male? Since you mention you are in a heterosexual dating relationship - one of you is female and one is male, but who is each one.

Peace.
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“cis-gender people” are people with no gender issues to differentiate them from the norm. So people. The term sprung up a long time ago and has sometimes carried vaguely pejorative undertones.
 
It would be a sin because you would be regarding each other as two people of opposite sex would regard each other. I strongly advise that you talk to a very conservative priest who is near and dear to traditional Catholic values so that he will be able to tell you The Church’s full stance on the subject and be able to help you out with questions you have or things you are struggling with. I struggle with same sex attraction myself if that gives any credibility to my answer. I will that pray that God will show you his plan for you, because it seems in your post that you are confused as to what he has in plan for you. Pray for me as well!:gopray:

God Bless
 
John_of_Woking said:
Yes, yes I do 😃
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The amount of people who go from completely homosexual to completely heterosexual is very low (well, once you subtract the men caught cheating on their wives with men).

You see some improvement just means the attractions are weaker, discontinuing porn and sex would do that over time, prayer even more so. How success is defined can be rather loose; discontinuing sex does not mean they are now heterosexual, it might just mean they have a stronger spine. Being able to engage in sex with the opposite sex does not necessarily mean you are heterosexual, after all morticians manage to get over the disgust of dissecting dead bodies relatively quickly.
answershere said:
It would be a sin because you would be regarding each other as two people of opposite sex would regard each other. I strongly advise that you talk to a very conservative priest who is near and dear to traditional Catholic values so that he will be able to tell you The Church’s full stance on the subject and be able to help you out with questions you have or things you are struggling with. I struggle with same sex attraction myself if that gives any credibility to my answer. I will that pray that God will show you his plan for you, because it seems in your post that you are confused as to what he has in plan for you. Pray for me as well!:gopray:

God Bless
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As long as it isn’t carnal in nature it is not sinful (if you disagree point to where it says it). Also I think the original poster misunderstands love (like pretty much every native English speaker).

I would advise VeryWell to read the encyclical Deus Caritas Est (God is Love) by Pope Benedict XVI.
 
Dakota_Roberts said:
As long as it isn’t carnal in nature it is not sinful
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You don’t have to do something physically to be sinning. If your spiritual state of being is not in harmony with God, then that is also sin. Like denying your conscience and being indifferent about God.
 
answershere said:
You don’t have to do something physically to be sinning. If your spiritual state of being is not in harmony with God, then that is also sin. Like denying your conscience and being indifferent about God.
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Indubitably however that doesn’t make this sin.
 
still confused. what were you saying is not sinful? sorry im just not understanding what you meant
 
one thing i havent heard is crossdressing not being a sin. I checked out some threads but i didnt find the same result that the original post says
 
OP

This absolutely positively 100% needs to be brought up with a good Priest. Likely outside of the short time of confession…I advise making an appointment to speak with a Priest for a good while.

You need to cover exactly the situation you have. You need to explain your feelings in full. Then you have to listen to his advise, however hard it may be. Make sure though that the priest you choose is wise and faithful first! It can be hard to judge but it might be good to just tell him straight up before meeting that you are asking for answers completely in line with the Magisterium. Talking to the people at Courage is also a good idea in my opinion.

In the meantime (and actually all the time) pray much.
Pray the Rosary every day.
Practice Mental Prayer
Pray for final Perseverance
Trust in Christ’s infinite Mercy
 
answershere said:
one thing i havent heard is crossdressing not being a sin. I checked out some threads but i didnt find the same result that the original post says
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It is sinful when done for sexual purpose, that is in cases like 16th century colonial Mexico City where you had men dressed as women being prostitutes and even the sailors* were horrified at the immorality of the place

*Caveat, these were highly religious Spaniards in the same time period in Spain people were being hung and then burned for buggery.
 
Dakota_Roberts said:
It is sinful when done for sexual purpose, that is in cases like 16th century colonial Mexico City where you had men dressed as women being prostitutes and even the sailors* were horrified at the immorality of the place

*Caveat, these were highly religious Spaniards in the same time period in Spain people were being hung and then burned for buggery.
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Not only is cross dressing sinful when done for sexual purposes, and we don’t have to look to 16th century colonial Mexico. It is dangerous and can lead to homicide or murder in today’s underbelly of crimes in our cities, including small towns.

Just google ‘reported killing of transsexuals and transgenders.’ In the wrong or criminal or mentally unstable company, transsexuals and transgenders looking for ‘love’ or paid sex end up dead. The story of Gwen Araujo, for example, is tragic on several levels. It is never justifiable to take a life, but it would be naive to think that pushing the envelope, i.e., cross dressing, which is a form of deception, for sexual purposes, carries no risk in the streets.
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VeryWell said:
I am simply trying to get advice relevant to something that I, unfortunately, do not think most people are capable of comprehending, that being a chaste romantic love between two individuals that are technically the same physical sex. My condition is a factor, yes, but it is only a detail–and perhaps it is one that I ought to have left out, because it seems to be the foundation of a number of hang ups for no small array of people…

Finally, when I use the term ‘sacred act’, I am NOT speaking of it in regards to intimacy between me and my love. That is evidently not a sacred act, it is the opposite of one, and I am well aware of that. I am speaking of it in regards to intimacy between them and someone *else of the truly opposite gender. In order to pursue a romance with me they are forgoing pursuing a proper *romance with someone who is whole and therefore are giving up their natural right to procreation, and they are doing that for me. That IS a sacrifice and it is one made out of love. Is that really so difficult to understand or am I just being terribly unclear?..
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Romance is “an ardent emotional attachment” with certain expectations. It is a means to a deeper level within a relationship, and is generally a precursor to MARRIAGE. It is a desire for more intimacy. It is based on emotions (which come and go, and upon which a healthy commitment should never be made). Contrary to how romantic love is portrayed as an ideal in our culture, it is NOT the glue which holds any relationship together permanently.

I suggest that when you speak to your priest, that you mention at the outset that you wish to maintain a relationship that is a “chaste romance”.

In my opinion, you and your friend are fooling yourselves and are setting yourselves up for either sin or grief (or both).
 
InSearchofGrace said:
Not only is cross dressing sinful when done for sexual purposes, and we don’t have to look to 16th century colonial Mexico. It is dangerous and can lead to homicide or murder in today’s underbelly of crimes in our cities, including small towns.

Just google ‘reported killing of transsexuals and transgenders.’ In the wrong or criminal or mentally unstable company, transsexuals and transgenders looking for ‘love’ or paid sex end up dead. The story of Gwen Araujo, for example, is tragic on several levels. It is never justifiable to take a life, but it would be naive to think that pushing the envelope, i.e., cross dressing, which is a form of deception, for sexual purposes, carries no risk in the streets.
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I was giving an example

That case is beyond crossdressing.
 
VeryWell said:
(This is a question that’s been eating me alive to the point that I’ve just crawled out of bed at 2 AM to register on my favorite forum in the world and ask it. Do forgive if I am less than eloquent!)

I am a faithful Catholic and have been for my entire life. I have never strayed from its teachings and I vigorously defend its doctrines, even–and especially–those concerning the Church’s stance on homosexuality. If I were to classify myself, I would say that I am very traditional. However, I also suffer from Gender Identity Disorder. (To clarify, I have not begun hormones or undergone surgery, but I do crossdress, which, as I have gathered from scouring other threads, is not a sin, and thank goodness, because it is a small and much needed respite from my turmoil.)

Of course, knowing that I will never truly be the sex I wasn’t born as, I contentedly resigned myself to a chaste and single life since a very young age, incapable of either marriage or of comfortably joining a holy order. I have never fornicated and I am stubborn enough to think that I never will–I hope I never will, anyway, by grace.

However, I have since found someone that I have fallen irrevocably in love with. They are the same sex as my birth sex. They know that I have GID, and, while straight, they love me anyway. I love them, too, and our attraction is mutual, chaste and not lustful in the slightest. Of course, knowing how things go, we have discussed the issue of the marital act, and on account of my religion (they are not Catholic) and my condition we have come to the understanding that it can never happen between us. Naturally, I am acutely aware that a marriage will never be recognized by the Church.

Despite these discouragements, we want to stay together as a chaste couple. I think that we have the willpower and the strength to do it, and by God’s grace I am sure that we can. It is a rare and powerful love that I do not think is possible for many people, to the point that we would both give up the sacred act. It is a great sacrifice on their part, especially, made more potent on account of the fact that they are the sort of person that could have anyone they desired, really–certainly someone who was not like me, someone who was whole enough to be a proper other half.

I suppose that this must seem a bit convoluted, but my primary question is this: would we be committing a sin anyway for staying together in this way, or does sin only come into play when sexual intimacy does?
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Can I just say, I respect your staying in touch with your faith at this time, and please, please don’t let anyone drive you away from it accidentally or on purpose.

We all love you, and I will pray that whatever our Lord wants for you happens, and leads you to true happiness.
 
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