Transgender Madness Update

[anon99031074]

Humans knew nothing about chromosomes until very recently, and we still managed to talk about men/women, feminine & masculine.

Of course, I agree that human bodies generally have either a vagina or a penis. However, people with penises sometimes have traits we as a culture define as feminine. People with vaginas sometimes have traits we as a culture define as masculine. Some cultures have historically chosen to refer to people with a penis and what they perceive as feminine traits as a separate gender from people with a penis and masculine traits etc. Others have had three genders such as male, female and non-conformist, as pointed out above.

As I see it, our bodies do not demand that we speak about them in a specific way, or that we group humans according to this trait or that.

Now, I don’t much care personally whether we divide humans into 2 genders, 4 or 11 for that matter, although I suppose learning grammar will be difficult with the latter option. However, there are people to whom this is important. And there are people who suffer because they feel like they have been born with the wrong sex.

 

[JimG]

Yes, even without knowing about genetics and chromosomes, people have always been able to distinguish men and women.

Traits are not the same thing as sex. A man or a woman can be quite variable in their traits; it does not change their sex. People can have a variety of feelings, but that doesn’t change their sex. I think biological reality ought to be recognized.

I have read from activists such sentences as “Women can have a penis,” or “Men can have periods too,” but that is just nonsense.

 

[anon99031074]

Traits are not the same thing as sex. A man or a woman can be quite variable in their traits; it does not change their sex. People can have a variety of feelings, but that doesn’t change their sex. I think biological reality ought to be recognized.

Does anyone dispute that there is a difference between the biological sexes? English is not my native language, so I looked up “gender” in the English edition of Wikipedia, which says:

Gender is the range of characteristics pertaining to, and differentiating between, masculinity and femininity. Depending on the context, these characteristics may include biological sex (i.e., the state of being male, female, or an intersex variation), sex-based social structures (i.e., gender roles), or gender identity.

In other words, gender may refer to more than simply the biological sex.

 

[JimG]

Yes, the word gender may be used to refer to personal characteristics deemed masculine or feminine. But when used in that way, it is a sort of a social construct, since man and women are not particularly demarcated by their personal characteristics. When used in biology, gender and sex are the same.

 

[anon99031074]

Yes, the word gender may be used to refer to personal characteristics deemed masculine or feminine. But when used in that way, it is a sort of a social construct, since man and women are not particularly demarcated by their personal characteristics. When used in biology, gender and sex are the same.

Well, if gender is a social construct when used that way, we can change this construct. As I understand it, the word gender has grown to include a larger and more complex reality than merely biological sex, in modern human language.

 

[JimG]

Yes, we can change the meaning, but it is better to do so in a way that does not confuse people about biology. It’s best not to make people think that because of their personal traits, their sex is changed. By doing so we might make dysphoria worse.

 

[Brendan_64]

Meanwhile, I am inclined to listen to people who experience the feeling of being born with the wrong sex and their wishes.

How can someone know what it feels like to be born with the wrong sex? How can a person who is genetically coded as a male know how it feels like to be a woman (or vice versa)?

 

[DeSales111]

That’s the problem, everything is based on feelings now instead of common sense. Notice how most of the men who say they are a woman over compensate and ACT more femine than a little girl. It is all bizarre and if they expect me to accept that as a new normal, never!

 

[anon99031074]

How can someone know what it feels like to be born with the wrong sex? How can a person who is genetically coded as a male know how it feels like to be a woman (or vice versa)?

I don’t know, to be honest. I guess the only way of knowing what gender dysphoria is like experientally is… well… experiencing it. I guess that is true of all potential experience. I cannot know what pizza tastes like unless I have tasted it. However, according to webmd:

People who have gender dysphoria feel strongly that their gender does not match their biology.

For example, a person who has a male reproductive organ and all other physical traits of a male might feel instead that he is actually a female. That person would have an intense desire to have a female body and to be accepted by others as a female. Or someone with the physical characteristics of a female would feel her true identity is male.

Feeling that your body does not reflect your true gender can cause severe distress, anxiety, and depression. “Dysphoria” is a feeling of dissatisfaction, anxiety, and restlessness. With gender dysphoria, the discomfort with your male or female body can be so intense that it can interfere with your normal life, for instance at school or work or during social activities.

Being someone who practices Buddhism, I don’t actually believe that there is such a thing as inner self or identity, but I do believe people feel that way. Most humans have multiple senses of identity, such as, “I am a doctor, Catholic, Buddhist, woman, man, human, spiritual person, rational person, gamer, comic book fan”, etc… etc… Some are far more foundational for our psychological makeup than others, however.

 

[esieffe]

When I was growing up, it was unthinkable to choose to be gay. Choosing misery, choosing loneliness, choosing chastisement, choosing to be the object of bulling and the risk of being disowned.

Over the years, I questioned several people who were gay if they thought they made the decision to be this way, and everyone said no. I believe them. I think that is one reason the CCC admonishes people to treat SSAs with compassion. I don’t believe this is a choice.

However, I also believe in the Catholic Church. I believe doctrine, and the commandments, so in the end, it doesn’t matter. All outside marriage are called to chastity.

Unfortunately my belief will soon have to expand and change. With all that pop-culture is now serving up, I see an environment now that might change. The left has set a stage where guys who are confused might be encouraged to don a set of heels just for the fifteen minutes of fame. When you are suddenly in a world where drag queens at story hour is a reality, I think all bets are off.

It was never simple being a kid though it looks that way now. We played tag, dodge ball, and board games. At dusk, everyone’s Moms yelled that dinner was ready. All we had to worry about was taking candy from strangers, that kid whose father had a playboy collection in his closet and the creepy camp councilor.

Now that creepy councilor has a website and playboy is tame from what lies just one click away.
We are in huge trouble. Our arguments no longer matter. Why? you can’t apply logic and science to the insane or to chaos. I feel horrible for anyone with small kids. When I see a sweet happy kid, I pray that God preserves and protects them. You should too. The only other thing left to do is resist without violence and prayer. Lots of prayer.

I hope I am being melodramatic by using this poem, but I can’t help but think about it.

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

 

[QwertyGirl]

Did God create this? Is this God’s sense of humor?

Nobody knows why God does this. I like to think it may be, in part or in whole, to humble the rest of us to learn to accept others they way God created them (not the way we may wish they were).

I am sure there is a reason.

 

[Thorolfr]

As for the suffering of people with gender dysphoria - I fully sympathize. I hope I didn’t come across as uncaring in the earlier post. It sounds like an awful position to be in and my heart goes out to them. I just don’t think that physical transition helps a lot of people. The suicide rate doesn’t decrease after transition. Puberty blockers give young people countless additional mental health problems. The number of reversals is climbing year after year.

Suicide rates among transgender people is a complicated issue. As one paper reported:

We can also theorize on the impact of time and transition on suicidality, though only in an exploratory fashion. For example, as expected, when we compare lifetime to past year suicidality we find that ideation (55% vs. 51%) and especially attempts (29% vs. 11%) decrease. It seems counterintuitive, on the other hand, that suicide attempts are lower before transition (ideation 36.1%; attempt 13.1%) than over most other periods (past year attempts being the exception). However, we may expect to find higher rates of suicidality over the lifetime because this is a category that represents a non-transition specific and cumulative experience, in contrast to the single period represented by before transition . It may also be the case that individuals who do not desire transition represent a less dysphoric group and are therefore less suicidal. By contrast, evidence is mounting that barriers to transition-related healthcare contribute to suicidality among those who desire such measures and though it sometimes increases during transition, it typically decreases once desired transitional goals are completed. Indeed, a recent qualitative inquiry into suicide protective factors among trans adults identified several important protective factors among this population, one of which was socially and/or medically transitioning (for those who seek it). Additionally, suicidality may be generally higher among transgender individuals than the general population throughout the life course, due to factors unrelated to transition, such as stigma and discrimination.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5436370/

 

[Brendan_64]

I don’t know, to be honest. I guess the only way of knowing what gender dysphoria is like experientally is… well… experiencing it. I guess that is true of all potential experience. I cannot know what pizza tastes like unless I have tasted it.

Suffering from gender dysphoria is thinking you are the ‘wrong’ sex, which is not the same as being the wrong sex. Knowing what it feels like to be confused over what sex you are is different from knowing what it feels like to be the opposite sex. A person can know what it feels like to think they feel like a member of the opposite sex, but unless they are a member of the opposite sex they cannot know what it feels like. Thinking you are something other than what you are is delusional. To suffer from a delusion does not mean that you are your delusion. Biological and genetic reality is determined by facts not feelings.

Like many people, I suppose, I feel younger than I actually am, but that does not change my age, even though I have the benefit of knowing what it feels like to feel younger than I am l (having actually been that age once). Someone who feels they are a member of the opposite doesn’t even have the benefit of experience to know what that actually feels like.

 

[meltzerboy2]

Do you believe that would be something bad for humans?

 

[Wozza]

It came across as a personal attack to Jim. But you knew that.

It was more of an observation.

 

[francisca.chapter3]

I’m a little conflicted on this subject. I had a teenage friend who was born “male” but as he grew up, he liked dolls, dresses, makeup and other girlie things. His friends were all girls. By the time he was a young teen, he had boobs. Not just man boobs, but real womanly boobs. His voice never changed. He had the voice of a girl. He had no facial hair and very little body hair. The only male thing about him was what hung between his legs. He finally had a full Monty sex change when he was about 20. He/she seemed much more at peace after this. I can’t say that I blamed him/her.

Did God create this? Is this God’s sense of humor?

Lemuel:

Did God create this? Is this God’s sense of humor?

Nobody knows why God does this. I like to think it may be, in part or in whole, to humble the rest of us to learn to accept others they way God created them (not the way we may wish they were).

I am sure there is a reason.

The answer to that answer is very very simple: hormone injection

There is no god involved in that.

I feel sorry for men whose talent force them to feel out of place in this mens world. Men should be allowed to like fashon or nail polish and eyeshadows, without having to have some sort of conflicting sex identity crisis.

I watched korean men singers in television they wear eyeshadows and glitters and look somewhat rather feminine, but at the same time they are still very attractive for the young girls. So why would men worry if they look feminine. I am sure many women wish if only their husbands pay more attention to fashion and even notice if we wear our new makeups.

Macho men more attractive in the past when we were savages and there were no law when it was the time of never ending tribal wars. Nowadays its the age when gentle intellectual minds win the competition. Macho men isnt the only prefered style. There is no rule to say a man must be macho. However to change themselves become women is wrong.

 

[Vico]

Do you believe that would be something bad for humans?

It may be. For example, germline gene therapy is controversial, it may be unethical to modify genes that are passed on. It raises the questions of who can decide which traits are normal and what constitutes a disability or disorder.

 

[esieffe]

We can also theorize on the impact of time and transition on suicidality, though only in an exploratory fashion. For example, as expected, when we compare lifetime to past year suicidality we find that ideation (55% vs. 51%) and especially attempts (29% vs. 11%) decrease. It seems counterintuitive, on the other hand, that suicide attempts are lower before transition (ideation 36.1%; attempt 13.1%) than over most other periods (past year attempts being the exception).

Thank you for making that point. Many people who are tortured try something called geographical cures. I think this is the same thing as what we are talking about, but not nearly as grand in scale.

When all the surgeries are finished, and the shots have done their work, we still find ourselves. I can be just as guilty. Buying that thing will change my life, if only this or that. Sometimes moving or buying something will help, but we can always go to the store for a refund.

This, you cannot walk back from. You can’t get a refund on this.

 

[JimG]

And yet, a biological male who thinks he is a woman is not an actual biological woman, and can never be.

 

[anon99031074]

And yet, a biological male who thinks he is a woman is not an actual biological woman, and can never be.

I don’t think anyone actually disputes that? People cannot change their biological sex (yet)? The question is, how do we best help people who suffer from gender dysphoria. It would be easy to start cherry picking studies that say what we want them to say, so let me put it this way.

For the sake of argument, suppose that a mountain of scientific evidence ends up confirming that people who suffer from gender dysphoria will be happier, and much less likely to consider or actually commit suicide if they are given the therapy they ask for, whether that be hormone treatment and/or surgery. Would you be in favor of such treatment in these cases?

Also, if the same could be shown to be the result of referring to people with the (social) gender pronouns they prefer, would you be in favor of doing it?

If you object on principle, even if it could be shown to substantially reduce human suffering for people who suffer from gender dysphoria, then we simply disagree and there is little left to discuss.