Transgender People

[Kateri92]

So, I am 100% straight but I was thinking about people who are transgender. My heart really breaks for them because they have such a huge cross to bear. But, I was thinking about how one might go about being a saint and being transgender. I know without a doubt God wants every single person on this earth to be with him in heaven as though they were the only person that ever existed. But, I realize it is REALLY hard for trans people to live as faithful Catholics in our society. They have a longing to change their outside to match what they feel on the inside.

I have basically concluded that for a trans person to be a faithful catholic they would have to offer their sexuality to God and live for Christ a lone. Is it correct to assume that God ALLOWED (not made) them to be transgender because he wanted to narrow the options out there and lead the person to a life of chastity? I am struggling with thinking about this because I don’t want to judge trans people but I can’t deny the church’s teaching on marriage and the family either.

Also, is it okay to call trans people by their preferred pronouns (i.e. “He” “She”)?

 

[LoyalViews]

I think the first step to all this is that we have to understand that in God’s creating, there are no mistakes. Transgender people are as much the children of God as any non-trans person, and as such, deserve the utmost respect and preserve their dignity unaltered before or after transition.

With that said, it has to be recognised that transgenderism and body/gender dysphoria is by far more of a psychological disorder than a “lifestyle” that ought to be endorsed and accepted.

 

[1990Domer]

So, I am 100% straight but I was thinking about people who are transgender. My heart really breaks for them because they have such a huge cross to bear. But, I was thinking about how one might go about being a saint and being transgender. I know without a doubt God wants every single person on this earth to be with him in heaven as though they were the only person that ever existed. But, I realize it is REALLY hard for trans people to live as faithful Catholics in our society. They have a longing to change their outside to match what they feel on the inside.

I have basically concluded that for a trans person to be a faithful catholic they would have to offer their sexuality to God and live for Christ a lone. Is it correct to assume that God ALLOWED (not made) them to be transgender because he wanted to narrow the options out there and lead the person to a life of chastity? I am struggling with thinking about this because I don’t want to judge trans people but I can’t deny the church’s teaching on marriage and the family either.

Also, is it okay to call trans people by their preferred pronouns (i.e. “He” “She”)?

I feel transgendered people should be called by the pronoun God gave them at birth: he or she.

God did not allow transgender people. It is part of the free will He gave us and due to original sin. It is that person’s cross he/she needs to bear. Yes, it may seem tragic. Right now, I am watching my best friend’s husband take his final breaths. He is 44 and leaving 2 boys (12,13…son’s best buddies) and a wife pregnant with twin girls. I am writing this because it is tough to judge crosses. My family spent our night keeping my friend from losing her driver’s license. He husband lost his facilities to keep up with the family finances. She was faced with losing her license for 30 days.

So, we don’t know whose cross is greater, but God tends to be fair in distributing them. The difficult part is whether we want to take up God’s cross as he asks.

 

[vsedriver]

there are many crosses we are asked to bear at different times of our lives. I believe transgender is a psychological disorder akin to body dysmorphia. Instead of indulging these people’s illness they should be able to receive treatment.

 

[GEddie]

God never errs when assigning someone’s gender, nor does He give anyone the wrong body. He does not err; and every human soul is formed for his or her body, and would know no other.

While love and respect should be shown to everybody, there is no more validity to a male claiming to be female, etc. than a child claiming to be a cat.

IMNAAHO.

ICXC NIKA

 

[mjs2001]

I think that transgender people can be saints because they obviously suffer from mental illness, and I don’t believe that mental illness will ever prevent someone from becoming a saint. As far as calling them by their preferred pronoun, it’s up to you. A man might call himself a woman, but that doesn’t mean that I’m required to call him a woman.

 

[1990Domer]

I think that transgender people can be saints because they obviously suffer from mental illness, and I don’t believe that mental illness will ever prevent someone from becoming a saint. As far as calling them by their preferred pronoun, it’s up to you. A man might call himself a woman, but that doesn’t mean that I’m required to call him a woman.

If is it a mental illness, then perhaps the person get the needed help andcgive Glory to God that the treatment worked.

Thoughts?

 

[Vic_Taltrees_UK]

… Also, is it okay to call trans people by their preferred pronouns (i.e. “He” “She”)?

I think you ought to make a point of always bringing their name back in *as if it was *a pronoun in itself. In this kind of extreme depersonalisation the most basic fragments of the English and every other language have become traumatic to hear. If you let the pronoun slip the odd once, however, don’t make a fuss.

Up till the other day I thought “t” people were those that have freely and knowingly chosen to have operations and carefully planned to present themselves and be something in particular. It’s up to them not to be ambiguous. People in extreme depersonalisation aren’t capable of any of that anyway. In recent days I see the usage of the “t” word has changed and now it doesn’t seem to be a category at all.

The general public have to be challenged to exert their faculties and use their sense.

Not only these folks but their parents and grandparents were born and brought up dumped behind a television set and never treated as human beings. My own parents and grandparents were hardly given any catechesis. I grew up weak, uncoordinated and bookish but I thought that was as fine and manly a way to be as any other. That was fortunate as otherwise when I was 13 and about 30 boys ganged up on me and charged me chanting “Woman, woman, woman” in the playground it might have got to me.

It’s not the victims that must be blamed but if there’s the minutest spark of life left in them at all it must be challenged to exercise itself. What image of “man” or “woman” are those around them especially authority figures projecting? By suppressing man and woman, they are not only suppressing reproduction-related aspects but true individuality and true identity.

How many of these “t” people were put down by parents and teachers? How many of their parents were put down? If they were assisted in their dyslexia, dyspraxia and ADD, instead of being made to feel they are letting the family or the side down, the girl who would have been good at rocket science, philosophy and politics, the boy who would have been good at gardening and cooking, ARE as manly and womanly as anyone in fact probably more so. The children who have an autism spectrum condition, who are socially awkward, have the drive to figure out truly what human relating is and lead everyone else in that exploration. By becoming what you ARE you are God’s fresh definition for today, for the now, of what Man and Woman is. Not by continually subtracting and subtracting and subtracting.

But no, all reality has to be suppressed, has been so for generations, what we see now is merely a minor terminal convulsion.

 

[1990Domer]

I think you ought to make a point of always bringing their name back in *as if it was *a pronoun in itself. In this kind of extreme depersonalisation the most basic fragments of the English and every other language have become traumatic to hear. If you let the pronoun slip the odd once, however, don’t make a fuss.

Up till the other day I thought “t” people were those that have freely and knowingly chosen to have operations and carefully planned to present themselves and be something in particular. It’s up to them not to be ambiguous. People in extreme depersonalisation aren’t capable of any of that anyway. In recent days I see the usage of the “t” word has changed and now it doesn’t seem to be a category at all.

The general public have to be challenged to exert their faculties and use their sense.

Not only these folks but their parents and grandparents were born and brought up dumped behind a television set and never treated as human beings. My own parents and grandparents were hardly given any catechesis. I grew up weak, uncoordinated and bookish but I thought that was as fine and manly a way to be as any other. That was fortunate as otherwise when I was 13 and about 30 boys ganged up on me and charged me chanting “Woman, woman, woman” in the playground it might have got to me.

It’s not the victims that must be blamed but if there’s the minutest spark of life left in them at all it must be challenged to exercise itself. What image of “man” or “woman” are those around them especially authority figures projecting? By suppressing man and woman, they are not only suppressing reproduction-related aspects but true individuality and true identity.

How many of these “t” people were put down by parents and teachers? How many of their parents were put down? If they were assisted in their dyslexia, dyspraxia and ADD, instead of being made to feel they are letting the family or the side down, the girl who would have been good at rocket science, philosophy and politics, the boy who would have been good at gardening and cooking, ARE as manly and womanly as anyone in fact probably more so. The children who have an autism spectrum condition, who are socially awkward, have the drive to figure out truly what human relating is and lead everyone else in that exploration. By becoming what you ARE you are God’s fresh definition for today, for the now, of what Man and Woman is. Not by continually subtracting and subtracting and subtracting.

But no, all reality has to be suppressed, has been so for generations, what we see now is merely a minor terminal convulsion.

I cannot agree. God made you in his image at conception with free will and the falleness of original sin. A “fresh start” would be a recommitment to God and his teachings, not gender mutiliation or rejection. We all have crosses to bear…which we choose to accept or reject. They help us get to Heaven. God chooses those crosses but does not make fresh ones based on our personal challenges.

As always, be compassionate. However, false-compassion does nobody good. It’s a step in the wrong direction.

 

[njlisa]

I do not wish to be argumentative, but mistakes do occur. A dear friend recently told me he was intersex. For those of you who are not aware of this condition, an intersex person is born with both male and female parts. (I don’t want to get overly specific.) Recently, he had had a radical hysterectomy in order to relieve some bothersome problems. He is much happier that he is able to live as a male, and he lives a chaste life.

There has to be room for compassion for intersex people. Chromosomal and genetic errors do occur. And it is difficult for these people to live comfortably.

He is a dear friend, and I have no problem calling him “he.”

​

 

[The_Murray]

It’s probably not very helpful that all proven psychiatric treatment for transvestism is going away now that it’s viewed in the same boat as “gay therapy.” Soon, there will be no secular help for those that suffer from such a disorder because of perverted political correctness. That’s the saddest part to me.

There was proven help to reverse such suffering, now there is nothing but pure indulgence. And pure indulgence has been shown not to work, that’s why John Hopkins stopped doing gender reassessment surgery. Too many people were coming back to them with regrets.

Very sad.

 

[njlisa]

This article from the Wall Street Journal expands on The Murray said.

Transgender Surgery Isn’t the Solution
A drastic physical change doesn’t address underlying psycho-social troubles.

wsj.com/articles/paul-mchugh-transgender-surgery-isnt-the-solution-1402615120

 

[Kateri92]

I do not wish to be argumentative, but mistakes do occur. A dear friend recently told me he was intersex. For those of you who are not aware of this condition, an intersex person is born with both male and female parts. (I don’t want to get overly specific.) Recently, he had had a radical hysterectomy in order to relieve some bothersome problems. He is much happier that he is able to live as a male, and he lives a chaste life.

There has to be room for compassion for intersex people. Chromosomal and genetic errors do occur. And it is difficult for these people to live comfortably.

He is a dear friend, and I have no problem calling him “he.”

​

Am I mistaken in thinking that being transgender, and intersex are two different phenomena? One is mental the other is physical. I wonder if this is were disagreement derives from.

 

[GEddie]

Am I mistaken in thinking that being transgender, and intersex are two different phenomena? One is mental the other is physical. I wonder if this is were disagreement derives from.

There is a difference. While intersexuality derives from an anomaly of the solid body, transgenderism usually involves a mind out of phase with his or her body.

Everybody should be treated with compassion, but that does not extend to “regularizing” every anomaly in human life.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Vic_Taltrees_UK]

I wasn’t recommending (and it’s clear that I wasn’t) what it may appear you may have thought I was (but it isn’t clear).

I use words:

• as a layman
• allusively
• descriptively

I say what I am saying and I never say more or other than I am saying.

My purpose was solely to flag up that while depression may manifest in connection with sexuality (and in many cases, in a completely different way) its roots may be in connection with various things - simply an observation based on people I knew.

We each need to become what we have the potential to become, in terms of learning, skills, talents, aptitudes and the like. Apologies if did not state this.

 

[Thorolfr]

I feel transgendered people should be called by the pronoun God gave them at birth: he or she.

Believe it or not, some languages don’t even have gendered pronouns, so there is no “he” and “she”. Both genders use the same pronoun.

 

[edwest2]

Am I mistaken in thinking that being transgender, and intersex are two different phenomena? One is mental the other is physical. I wonder if this is were disagreement derives from.

Intersex is a condition where male and female parts (no offense meant) may be present, along with other biological variations, and a doctor, using the testing methods at his disposal, along with consultation with the parents, may have to remove or modify a part. There are debates about doing this when a baby or waiting until a child is old enough to convey a sexual identity. Others contend any difference between intersex persons and typical male and females should not be a concern, but others, including older people with certain intersex differences, disagree.

Transgender is a psychological condition where a person believes he or she should be altered to appear as the man or woman they believe they should be. It is troubling in that the American Psychiatric Association recently reclassified the condition as a gender dysphoria. Briefly, if the desire does not bother you then you can change your body via surgery to be the sex you believe you should be. The LGBT community is encouraging Trans people to do this, to accept this and, among other things, to get the military to accept a man who is now a woman.

Now, such people should not be bullied or threatened or experience physical harm. However, this is a psychological condition that deserves treatment. An adult woman who is surgically modified to appear to be a man still has her female bone structure, for example.

Ed

 

[Kateri92]

Intersex is a condition where male and female parts (no offense meant) may be present, along with other biological variations, and a doctor, using the testing methods at his disposal, along with consultation with the parents, may have to remove or modify a part. There are debates about doing this when a baby or waiting until a child is old enough to convey a sexual identity. Others contend any difference between intersex persons and typical male and females should not be a concern, but others, including older people with certain intersex differences, disagree.

Transgender is a psychological condition where a person believes he or she should be altered to appear as the man or woman they believe they should be. It is troubling in that the American Psychiatric Association recently reclassified the condition as a gender dysphoria. Briefly, if the desire does not bother you then you can change your body via surgery to be the sex you believe you should be. The LGBT community is encouraging Trans people to do this, to accept this and, among other things, to get the military to accept a man who is now a woman.

Now, such people should not be bullied or threatened or experience physical harm. However, this is a psychological condition that deserves treatment. An adult woman who is surgically modified to appear to be a man still has her female bone structure, for example.

Ed

This is an interesting point you bring up. I was recently reading an article about MMA fighters and there was a match between a trans woman (born male) and the opponent who was female. There was concern over the strength of the trans individual. It was basically the same as a man beating up a woman. The woman opponent was badly hurt and had several broken bones as a result. I know that this particular situation is unique to the MMA world. There is also the issue of the trans student wanting to gain access to the girls bathroom/ locker room at one high school. I have compassion for these people but at the same time, I am saddened when they can’t see past their own cross. I know they have so much to struggle with but it almost seams like the LGBT community wants to place that burden on those who uphold traditional values. There must be a way to meet each other in the middle on these types of issues. I just wish the culture wars would stop. It divides so many people.

 

[njlisa]

Am I mistaken in thinking that being transgender, and intersex are two different phenomena? One is mental the other is physical. I wonder if this is were disagreement derives from.

They are certainly two different phenomena – no question. I was trying to address the idea that God doesn’t make mistakes in the assignment of gender. Although I don’t blame God, an intersex person is the result of genetic mistakes in the assignment of gender. I don’t know enough to say whether trans-gendered people have structural disorders of the brain.

 

[GEddie]

They are certainly two different phenomena – no question. I was trying to address the idea that God doesn’t make mistakes in the assignment of gender. Although I don’t blame God, an intersex person is the result of genetic mistakes in the assignment of gender. I don’t know enough to say whether trans-gendered people have structural disorders of the brain.

God making mistakes is different from allowing an error-prone physical process (the assignment of DNA).

That the development of the new generation can be plagued with physical errors should be no surprise. Consider Siamese twins, birth defects, and all the misery caused by thalidomide.

There is no reason to expect sexuality alone to be free of such errors.

ICXC NIKA