Transgender People

[kozlosap]

God making mistakes is different from allowing an error-prone physical process (the assignment of DNA).

That the development of the new generation can be plagued with physical errors should be no surprise. Consider Siamese twins, birth defects, and all the misery caused by thalidomide.

There is no reason to expect sexuality alone to be free of such errors.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Ph0enix]

So, I am 100% straight but I was thinking about people who are transgender. My heart really breaks for them because they have such a huge cross to bear. But, I was thinking about how one might go about being a saint and being transgender. I know without a doubt God wants every single person on this earth to be with him in heaven as though they were the only person that ever existed. But, I realize it is REALLY hard for trans people to live as faithful Catholics in our society. They have a longing to change their outside to match what they feel on the inside.

I have basically concluded that for a trans person to be a faithful catholic they would have to offer their sexuality to God and live for Christ a lone. Is it correct to assume that God ALLOWED (not made) them to be transgender because he wanted to narrow the options out there and lead the person to a life of chastity? I am struggling with thinking about this because I don’t want to judge trans people but I can’t deny the church’s teaching on marriage and the family either.

Also, is it okay to call trans people by their preferred pronouns (i.e. “He” “She”)?

As a person with GID and who is transgender it doesn’t affect my faith in a negative way, It is just sorta there, it is very discouraging knowing that (in most cases) im not allowed to transition but that is the cards I was dealt. And yes you are correct on the longing to become who we really are

They only need to be single if they got SRS from what i know

That is good, Wish more people knew not to judge

And yes it is ok to use their preferred pronouns(it can help them with their depression too)

Hope I could help with you, and God bless

 

[Sarcelle]

As a person with GID and who is transgender it doesn’t affect my faith in a negative way, It is just sorta there, it is very discouraging knowing that (in most cases) im not allowed to transition but that is the cards I was dealt. And yes you are correct on the longing to become who we really are

They only need to be single if they got SRS from what i know

That is good, Wish more people knew not to judge

And yes it is ok to use their preferred pronouns(it can help them with their depression too)

Hope I could help with you, and God bless

I know one person who is transitioning from female to male. I use the male pronoun when referring to said person.

 

[Ph0enix]

That’s nice of you

 

[styrgwillidar]

So, I am 100% straight but I was thinking about people who are transgender. My heart really breaks for them because they have such a huge cross to bear. But, I was thinking about how one might go about being a saint and being transgender. I know without a doubt God wants every single person on this earth to be with him in heaven as though they were the only person that ever existed. But, I realize it is REALLY hard for trans people to live as faithful Catholics in our society. They have a longing to change their outside to match what they feel on the inside.

I have basically concluded that for a trans person to be a faithful catholic they would have to offer their sexuality to God and live for Christ a lone. Is it correct to assume that God ALLOWED (not made) them to be transgender because he wanted to narrow the options out there and lead the person to a life of chastity? I am struggling with thinking about this because I don’t want to judge trans people but I can’t deny the church’s teaching on marriage and the family either.

Also, is it okay to call trans people by their preferred pronouns (i.e. “He” “She”)?

Well, as Murray pointed out-- we should encourage them to get psychological treatment/assistance. Johns Hopkins concluded that since sex reassignment surgery didn’t improve outcomes for the patient, it essentially was doing major surgery for no benefit. We should also point out to them that the suicide rate for transgendered who’ve had reassignment surgery is 20 times higher.

“A 2011 study at the Karolinska Institute in Sweden produced the most illuminating results yet regarding the transgendered, evidence that should give advocates pause. The long-term study—up to 30 years—followed 324 people who had sex-reassignment surgery. The study revealed that beginning about 10 years after having the surgery, the transgendered began to experience increasing mental difficulties. Most shockingly, their suicide mortality rose almost 20-fold above the comparable nontransgender population.”

Perhaps assisting them in dealing with reality of who they are would be better than assisting them in attempting to avoid reality.

From the article:

“At the heart of the problem is confusion over the nature of the transgendered. “Sex change” is biologically impossible. People who undergo sex-reassignment surgery do not change from men to women or vice versa. Rather, they become feminized men or masculinized women. Claiming that this is civil-rights matter and encouraging surgical intervention is in reality to collaborate with and promote a mental disorder.”

Dr. McHugh, former psychiatrist in chief at Johns Hopkins Hospital

 

[edwest2]

This is an interesting point you bring up. I was recently reading an article about MMA fighters and there was a match between a trans woman (born male) and the opponent who was female. There was concern over the strength of the trans individual. It was basically the same as a man beating up a woman. The woman opponent was badly hurt and had several broken bones as a result. I know that this particular situation is unique to the MMA world. There is also the issue of the trans student wanting to gain access to the girls bathroom/ locker room at one high school. I have compassion for these people but at the same time, I am saddened when they can’t see past their own cross. I know they have so much to struggle with but it almost seams like the LGBT community wants to place that burden on those who uphold traditional values. There must be a way to meet each other in the middle on these types of issues. I just wish the culture wars would stop. It divides so many people.

The “culture war” was not started by Catholics. The formerly private LGBT people decided it was time to get rid of privacy and force society to accept gay marriage or to use the restroom of their choice, to think transgenderism is not a problem, and certainly not a psychological one, and to force others to regard certain behaviors as normative and just stop talking about it and accept it.

Force does not go over very well. Either one understands what gay marriage is, why little kids are being exposed to gay marriage and behavior are OK in story books in public schools then the divide which has been created by LGBT activists will remain.

And another thing. If I had an irrational fear of homosexual persons, I could never go to the mall or a store. What if that person is gay or that one? That fantasy word - homophobia - needs to be exposed for what it is. No one can tell if another person is gay just by looking at them.

Ed

 

[njlisa]

God making mistakes is different from allowing an error-prone physical process (the assignment of DNA).

That the development of the new generation can be plagued with physical errors should be no surprise. Consider Siamese twins, birth defects, and all the misery caused by thalidomide.

There is no reason to expect sexuality alone to be free of such errors.

ICXC NIKA

Thanks for that clarification.

 

[Ph0enix]

Well, as Murray pointed out-- we should encourage them to get psychological treatment/assistance. Johns Hopkins concluded that since sex reassignment surgery didn’t improve outcomes for the patient, it essentially was doing major surgery for no benefit. We should also point out to them that the suicide rate for transgendered who’ve had reassignment surgery is 20 times higher.

“A 2011 study at the Karolinska Institute in Sweden produced the most illuminating results yet regarding the transgendered, evidence that should give advocates pause. The long-term study—up to 30 years—followed 324 people who had sex-reassignment surgery. The study revealed that beginning about 10 years after having the surgery, the transgendered began to experience increasing mental difficulties. Most shockingly, their suicide mortality rose almost 20-fold above the comparable nontransgender population.”

Perhaps assisting them in dealing with reality of who they are would be better than assisting them in attempting to avoid reality.

From the article:

“At the heart of the problem is confusion over the nature of the transgendered. “Sex change” is biologically impossible. People who undergo sex-reassignment surgery do not change from men to women or vice versa. Rather, they become feminized men or masculinized women. Claiming that this is civil-rights matter and encouraging surgical intervention is in reality to collaborate with and promote a mental disorder.”

Dr. McHugh, former psychiatrist in chief at Johns Hopkins Hospital

e 20℅ higher after SRS is a straw man. SRS helps trans people(I know someone nwho got it and they were happy after)

And I dont trust john Hopkins on lgbt, he is very rude to lgbt

 

[Kateri92]

I view the church as a huge family. So, when I see Catholics advocating for LGBT rights, it confuses me since a majority of Catholics would be kind and loving towards anyone in a bad situation. When I think of SRS, it troubles me because I simultaneously think of psalm 23 “the Lord is my Shepard, there is nothing I shall want”. I believe God has given us everything we need to be saints, including our crosses. I just wish everyone would know about the compassion and mercy found in the church which is the bride of Christ. Just some thoughts.

 

[DAML72]

So, I am 100% straight but I was thinking about people who are transgender. My heart really breaks for them because they have such a huge cross to bear. But, I was thinking about how one might go about being a saint and being transgender. I know without a doubt God wants every single person on this earth to be with him in heaven as though they were the only person that ever existed. But, I realize it is REALLY hard for trans people to live as faithful Catholics in our society. They have a longing to change their outside to match what they feel on the inside.

I have basically concluded that for a trans person to be a faithful catholic they would have to offer their sexuality to God and live for Christ a lone. Is it correct to assume that God ALLOWED (not made) them to be transgender because he wanted to narrow the options out there and lead the person to a life of chastity? I am struggling with thinking about this because I don’t want to judge trans people but I can’t deny the church’s teaching on marriage and the family either.

Also, is it okay to call trans people by their preferred pronouns (i.e. “He” “She”)?

I think you are confusing gender identity with sexuality. These issues are not cut and dry. So as to avoid getting detailed in my explanation, I will refer you to the case of Bruce Jenner, who, though he feels he is a woman, is still attracted to women.

Remember, those who are gay or trans are not the only ones called to chastity - we all are called to a life of chastity.

I don’t think that you need to judge people. The church teaches that we are to love everyone - we can embrace its teaching and still love others.

As to your final question, I don’t know. Generally, unless you have followed someone through his or her transition, you probably wouldn’t know if a post-operative transgendered person was previously the opposite sex.

As far as the final question - I don’t know.

 

[1990Domer]

I do not wish to be argumentative, but mistakes do occur. A dear friend recently told me he was intersex. For those of you who are not aware of this condition, an intersex person is born with both male and female parts. (I don’t want to get overly specific.) Recently, he had had a radical hysterectomy in order to relieve some bothersome problems. He is much happier that he is able to live as a male, and he lives a chaste life.

There has to be room for compassion for intersex people. Chromosomal and genetic errors do occur. And it is difficult for these people to live comfortably.

He is a dear friend, and I have no problem calling him “he.”

​

I think the RCC recognizes this as a real, but rare, medical condition and a genetic error. I think most people are talking of the Bruce Jenner scenario.

 

[1990Domer]

Am I mistaken in thinking that being transgender, and intersex are two different phenomena? One is mental the other is physical. I wonder if this is were disagreement derives from.

Yes, they are two different conditions.

 

[1990Domer]

Believe it or not, some languages don’t even have gendered pronouns, so there is no “he” and “she”. Both genders use the same pronoun.

Can you name some mainstream languages? Or are these more tribal languages?

 

[Thorolfr]

Can you name some mainstream languages? Or are these more tribal languages?

Are Native American or “tribal” languages not real languages? But there are others:

Persian, Turkish, Japanese, Armenian, Finno-Ugric languages (Finnish, Hungarian, Estonian)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_neutrality_in_genderless_languages

 

[The_Murray]

Can you name some mainstream languages? Or are these more tribal languages?

I actually think Sweden was attempting to get rid of gender singular words. Crazy right? They can just attempt to change the language like that.

washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/04/01/sweden-is-about-to-add-a-gender-neutral-pronoun-to-its-official-dictionary/

No more “boys and girls.”

Just “hen.”

 

[1990Domer]

e 20℅ higher after SRS is a straw man. SRS helps trans people(I know someone nwho got it and they were happy after)

And I dont trust john Hopkins on lgbt, he is very rude to lgbt

1. You ignored the Sweedish study results
2. your personal sample size of n=1 is not statistically significant.

 

[1990Domer]

Are Native American or “tribal” languages not real languages? But there are others:

Persian, Japanese, Armenian, Finno-Ugric languages (Finnish, Hungarian, Estonian)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_neutrality_in_genderless_languages

Ok, if I grant you that (no, I have not done my research), does that justify people mutilating their bodies? Hardly.

 

[1990Domer]

I actually think Sweden was attempting to get rid of gender singular words. Crazy right? They can just attempt to change the language like that.

washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/04/01/sweden-is-about-to-add-a-gender-neutral-pronoun-to-its-official-dictionary/

No more “boys and girls.”

Just “hen.”

Goodness, how we have fallen as a society.

 

[The_Murray]

e 20℅ higher after SRS is a straw man. SRS helps trans people(I know someone nwho got it and they were happy after)

And I dont trust john Hopkins on lgbt, he is very rude to lgbt

A straw man fallacy is an " informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent’s argument, while actually refuting an argument which was not advanced by that opponent."

If anything, what he posted would be erroneous information, not a logical fallacy. I haven’t seen the studies regarding either but i’m inclined to believe the higher suicide rate.

John Hopkins University is not “rude” to lgbt; in fact they were the first to offer SRS! They also did the most SRS of any recognized institution. I’d say they are well within their warrants to make defining statements regarding transgender SRS.

It is also quite irrelevant wether you knew some who turned out happier. If we are basing our opinions off statistics and psychological analysis of a target group; exemptions are just that, a rarity. If JHU was still performing such surgery and only 1/10 improved psychologically (no idea as to the actual number), at what point does the harm to the 9 override the joy (i’d call temporary delusion) of the 1?

 

[Ph0enix]

huffingtonpost.com/brynn-tannehill/myths-about-transition-regrets_b_6160626.html

Surgical regret is actually very uncommon. Virtually every modern study puts it below 4 percent, and most estimate it to be between 1 and 2 percent (Cohen-Kettenis & Pfafflin 2003, Kuiper & Cohen-Kettenis 1998, Pfafflin & Junge 1998, Smith 2005, Dhejne 2014). In some other recent longitudinal studies, none of the subjects expressed regret over medically transitioning (Krege et al. 2001, De Cuypere et al. 2006).

1. But what about the people who had regrets?

Any surgery comes with a risk of regret. It just happens that the risk of regret for GCS is actually much lower than for many other surgeries. Indeed, the regret rate for GCS compares favorably with gastric banding.

When asked about regrets, only 2 percent of respondents in a survey of transgender people in the UK had major regrets regarding the physical changes they had made, compared with 65 percent of non-transgender people in the UK who have had plastic surgery.

Risk factors for negative outcomes often mentioned in studies are lack of support from the patient’s family, poor social support, late-life transitions, severe psychopathology, unfavorable physical appearance, and poor surgical result (Cohen-Kettenis 2003, Lawrence 2003, Landen 1998, Smith 2005). Lawrence (2003) concluded that results of surgery may be more important for global outcome than preoperative factors. As techniques have been perfected, the risk of long-term complications has fallen to less than 1 percent in male-to-female patients (Perovic 2000, Jarolím 2009, Wu 2009). This follows the pattern of regret rates falling as well.

People who regret physically transitioning are outliers, not the norm.

so yes SOME do regret it and its sad that they do but there still are happy people after it.

and yes some times the operation doesnt go well(leading to regret) but so do all surgeries

also my mistake for saying that about john hopkins, I thought we were talking about the “right wing news” guy, not the hospital one, My mistake