Transgender Related Question

[Sarcelle]

Thanks for everyone who posted. I think I have a clearer understanding of things…at least a little bit. I suppose I am, and a lot of others are, really just reacting a bit oddly to the norms set up by society. Perhaps there are two separate levels at play here. On one level is the gender that I am physically (female) and the other is the societal construct of what is feminine. And since I am not at odds with my physical gender, the fact that I am slightly off kilter with the current definition of femininity makes me feel only mildly out of tune, so to speak. But not so out of sorts that it would ever have me question my authentic gender.

I guess the real problem concerning whether or not someone feels their gender would have to occur within both levels simultaneously , physical and societal, in order for the person to perceive a problem or error. Does this sound about right?

The answer to your question is, it depends.

I don’t know how old you are,but when I was younger, I felt that way. I felt I had to conform to what society expected of me. A real woman was one who was a wife and a mommy. A real woman confined her interest to children, homemaking, and looking beautiful for her husband. She should not concern herself with other interests. Otherwise, there was something wrong with her.

As I got older, I cared less and less about conforming.

 

[Thorolfr]

You received some first-class, A-1, 99 and 44/100% pure, epic bad advice! I will pray for you.

I’ll pray for you, too Elizium

 

[marymary1975]

Thanks for everyone who posted. I think I have a clearer understanding of things…at least a little bit. I suppose I am, and a lot of others are, really just reacting a bit oddly to the norms set up by society. Perhaps there are two separate levels at play here. On one level is the gender that I am physically (female) and the other is the societal construct of what is feminine. And since I am not at odds with my physical gender, the fact that I am slightly off kilter with the current definition of femininity mmatch thefeel only mildly out of tune, so to speak. But not so out of sorts that it would ever have me question my authentic gender.

I guess the real problem concerning whether or not someone feels their gender would have to occur within both levels simultaneously , physical and societal, in order for the person to perceive a problem or error. Does this sound about right?

I just wantws to mention that the way you ate using the word gender, as well as as togetheratyles description of it, it is what is called the “gender theory”. It is a secular theory which is rejected by the church and Pope Francis himself has stated recently that the church is against gender theory. People don’t have gender, people have a sex. There is no “physical gender”. You have a sex. What happens in here is that some people due to either strict gender roles imposed on them or for some other reasons realize that their sex doesn’t match the societal eexpectations or they start hating their sex because it doesn’t comport with what they want to be.

I think what happens with you is that you have never questioned yourselves because you never developed self hatred against you or because no one imposed a specific role that you found impossible or traumatic to stick too.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

The Church also teaches against mutilating our bodies. If you have such “reliable” advise from professionals then why are you here asking advice? Maybe it’s so painful because you know it’s wrong!! God Bless, Memaw

Well, the Church has a history of mutilation for the Glory of God. The castrati were made euchucs for hundreds of years - men kept boys for the sake of their voices. It is said that Origen castrated himself.

And if you read the lives of the Saints, you’ll see how so many (mostly women) mutilated and starved themselves in their attempts of holiness.

I like Carolyn Walker Bynum, the medieval historian, and her book, Fragmentation and Redemption: Essays on Gender and the Human Body in Medieval Religion.

But truly, the medieval Church was filled with saints who not only mutilated the body, but did all sorts of horrendous things to curb the flesh. And all was done to be closer to Jesus. The Church loved it.

 

[Thorolfr]

Well, the Church has a history of mutilation for the Glory of God. The castrati were made euchucs for hundreds of years - men kept boys for the sake of their voices. It is said that Origen castrated himself.

And if you read the lives of the Saints, you’ll see how so many (mostly women) mutilated and starved themselves in their attempts of holiness.

I like Carolyn Walker Bynum, the medieval historian, and her book, Fragmentation and Redemption: Essays on Gender and the Human Body in Medieval Religion.

But truly, the medieval Church was filled with saints who not only mutilated the body, but did all sorts of horrendous things to curb the flesh. And all was done to be closer to Jesus. The Church loved it.

 

[Regina7]

Well, the Church has a history of mutilation for the Glory of God. The castrati were made euchucs for hundreds of years - men kept boys for the sake of their voices. It is said that Origen castrated himself.

And if you read the lives of the Saints, you’ll see how so many (mostly women) mutilated and starved themselves in their attempts of holiness.

I like Carolyn Walker Bynum, the medieval historian, and her book, Fragmentation and Redemption: Essays on Gender and the Human Body in Medieval Religion.

But truly, the medieval Church was filled with saints who not only mutilated the body, but did all sorts of horrendous things to curb the flesh. And all was done to be closer to Jesus. The Church loved it.

So you think trans people having surgery and altering their bodies is done out of their love for Jesus?

 

[ComplineSanFran]

So you think trans people having surgery and altering their bodies is done out of their love for Jesus?

I can’t begin to talk for people going through surgery. My point was that the Church has a long tradition of practicing body mutilation, including castration.

Spiritual self-harm is a puzzle to me. I know there are people today who use flagellation and other sadistic tools as a spiritual discipline. I don’t know what to say about it.

But the topic is not whips and chains. Transgendered people are doing their best right now, and our culture is trying to puzzle this one out too.

 

[Regina7]

I can’t begin to talk for people going through surgery. My point was that the Church has a long tradition of practicing body mutilation, including castration.

Spiritual self-harm is a puzzle to me. I know there are people today who use flagellation and other sadistic tools as a spiritual discipline. I don’t know what to say about it.

But the topic is not whips and chains. Transgendered people are doing their best right now, and our culture is trying to puzzle this one out too.

I agree that spiritual self-harm is a puzzle. But the big difference is that flagellation and such are meant to bring that person closer to God (however misguided it may be), while the trans mutilation is done for self. I have read A LOT of trans stories and I’ve never once heard a person wanting to change to get closer to Jesus.

Our culture’s motto seems to be “everything goes.” And you’re a bigot if you find a problem with it.

 

[xNoOnex]

At risk of sounding like a secular humanist…

It’s really easy to speak about what’s right and wrong on issues such as homosexuality and transgendered issues when you’re heterosexual and feel as if your body matches your mind and soul. It’s a lot harder when you’re not.

I’m not gay. I’m not transgendered. But I am asexual. It’s nothing that I can control as much as I tried. It’s not a problem with the plumbing, I just can’t see people like that. But I’m still human; I still desire love and companionship, even romance. But sex? No.

While I can’t entirely fathom what homosexuals and transgendered people are going through, I do imagine that it’s a heavy cross to carry. They want the same things that any other person wants. Love, happiness, peace. Things like that are universal and I sometimes feel that things like that are forgotten.

Personally, part of the reason why I’m lapsed is I can’t believe that a God of infinite mercy and love would make anything broken - and than expect them to deny their longing for the most basic human emotions. I feel if He did that, he would be a cruel god.

To the people brave enough to step forward as transgendered; God bless you and keep you in His grace. I’ll pray for you. You need His strength because you live in a world that rejects you.

 

[simpleas]

At risk of sounding like a secular humanist…

It’s really easy to speak about what’s right and wrong on issues such as homosexuality and transgendered issues when you’re heterosexual and feel as if your body matches your mind and soul. It’s a lot harder when you’re not.

I’m not gay. I’m not transgendered. But I am asexual. It’s nothing that I can control as much as I tried. It’s not a problem with the plumbing, I just can’t see people like that. But I’m still human; I still desire love and companionship, even romance. But sex? No.

While I can’t entirely fathom what homosexuals and transgendered people are going through, I do imagine that it’s a heavy cross to carry. They want the same things that any other person wants. Love, happiness, peace. Things like that are universal and I sometimes feel that things like that are forgotten.

Personally, part of the reason why I’m lapsed is I can’t believe that a God of infinite mercy and love would make anything broken - and than expect them to deny their longing for the most basic human emotions. I feel if He did that, he would be a cruel god.

To the people brave enough to step forward as transgendered; God bless you and keep you in His grace. I’ll pray for you. You need His strength because you live in a world that rejects you.

:clapping: Agree. It’s the " Don’t judge another until you have walked a mile in their shoes" But when it comes to our human sexuality it’s a no no.

To me, God would be the only being that would never reject, man on the other hand…

 

[Sunbreak]

I was not a girly girl and I really didn’t like society’s expectations of me when I was young. There were times I wished I was a boy, because they didn’t have to do the cooking and cleaning at get togethers and other such expectations. However, I knew I was female and that’s different from my niece who is transitioning to a nephew and insisted from the age of 2-1/2 that she was a boy. I don’t understand it but I know it’s different from just wanting to do boy things and wear boy clothes. The identity was different from a very young age.

 

[Regina7]

At risk of sounding like a secular humanist…

It’s really easy to speak about what’s right and wrong on issues such as homosexuality and transgendered issues when you’re heterosexual and feel as if your body matches your mind and soul. It’s a lot harder when you’re not.

I’m not gay. I’m not transgendered. But I am asexual. It’s nothing that I can control as much as I tried. It’s not a problem with the plumbing, I just can’t see people like that. But I’m still human; I still desire love and companionship, even romance. But sex? No.

While I can’t entirely fathom what homosexuals and transgendered people are going through, I do imagine that it’s a heavy cross to carry. They want the same things that any other person wants. Love, happiness, peace. Things like that are universal and I sometimes feel that things like that are forgotten.

Personally, part of the reason why I’m lapsed is I can’t believe that a God of infinite mercy and love would make anything broken - and than expect them to deny their longing for the most basic human emotions. I feel if He did that, he would be a cruel god.

To the people brave enough to step forward as transgendered; God bless you and keep you in His grace. I’ll pray for you. You need His strength because you live in a world that rejects you.

Put your argument to pediophiles. God made them broken. How can he expect them to deny their longing?

 

[xNoOnex]

Put your argument to pediophiles. God made them broken. How can he expect them to deny their longing?

The difference between pedophilia and homosexuality that that pedophiles is that pedophilia involves corrosion and the exploitation of minors, who legally and psychologically, have the inability to consent.

Second, this argument always tends to be conspiracy driven rather than have basis in reality. Canada has allowed same-sex marriage for a decade hand hasn’t become a haven for pedophiles and no one married their dog.

Mind you, I’m not entirely in favor of a same-sex relationship and think transitioning surgery is something that is likely to cause more harm that good… But at the same time, my heart goes out for them. They are people, who long for the same things that everyone else does, and if they are religious they deny them. It’s a cross that’s heavy to bare and they need our compassion, not our rejection.

 

[Regina7]

The difference between pedophilia and homosexuality that that pedophiles is that pedophilia involves corrosion and the exploitation of minors, who legally and psychologically, have the inability to consent.

Second, this argument always tends to be conspiracy driven rather than have basis in reality. Canada has allowed same-sex marriage for a decade hand hasn’t become a haven for pedophiles and no one married their dog.

Mind you, I’m not entirely in favor of a same-sex relationship and think transitioning surgery is something that is likely to cause more harm that good… But at the same time, my heart goes out for them. They are people, who long for the same things that everyone else does, and if they are religious they deny them. It’s a cross that’s heavy to bare and they need our compassion, not our rejection.

I’m not comparing pedofiles to homosexuals. I was responding to the argument that God wouldn’t make broken people and not want them to follow their longings. If this argument is valid, then it should apply to all versions of broken people.

 

[jilly4ski]

To the original topic, when I was a young girl (9-12), I wanted to be a boy. I knew I was a girl but wanted to be a boy. Not really because of societal expectations, but because I thought that being a girl and the physical attributes of womanhood would interfere with who I wanted to be. I was a tom boy, who enjoyed sports and athletic endeavors, I was near the top, I could beat anyone my age at arm wrestling, was one of the fastest runners, etc. I knew that puberty would change me and the boys, and I would no longer be able to compete with them. I dreaded it and was angry that I would experience it. Indeed, puberty came and I got an particular unlucky draw and got the most “womanly” body compared to the other females in my family (I have an hourgalss figure). But being in a relatively healthy family and having a relatively healthy and resilient mind, it was just one of those things that I had to accept that I had no power to change, covering myself with boys jeans and sports bras while I explored other things that made me, me. I continued to participate in women’s sports, music, academics, and life in the Church. I truly worked at becoming a rounded individual and didn’t focus much on my physical sex or indeed on sexuality at all. I carried some dissatisfaction with my body on some level, but came to fully love myself in my flawed body, after I met my husband. (I had to be convinced that a boy liked me, poor man, good thing he was persistent). It was his unconditional love for me, for who I am, in the body that I come in, that I think I completely learned to appreciate my body and being a woman.

On a lighter note, I think I have height dysphoria. I feel really short even though I am almost 5ft 6in (above average for a woman). But between my family (sister 5’8" and one brother being 6’1") who teased me about being short, my husband (6’5"), and living in the upper midwest I grew up thinking I was short. I doesn’t help that most of my height is in my torso, so my arm length and inseam are more suitable for a much shorter person. Imagine my shock going out east and daily having my perception of shortness challenged.

 

[HelenRose]

I’ve been wondering the same thing lately. I thought about making a thread, but, figured that everyone is sick of transgender/homosexuality threads. But, I too have been wondering how does anyone feel like the opposite sex?I have always just felt like me and I’m also not a very girly girl. And, I wonder, if one is physically one sex, how do they know that they feel like a member of the other sex inside if he or she has never had previous experience being the other sex? I don’t know what it feels like to be a man or have any idea what it feels like because I was never a man.

I live in Western Colorado where girls can ride horses, shovel manure, stack hay as well as any man. We have no trouble distinguishing the difference between men and women no matter what kind of work we do.

I am a woman and I do not go around purposely “feeling” like a woman. I have to much living to do than to sit around gazing at my navel and other parts of my body trying to “feel” what ever it is I am supposed to “feel”. I basically think people have to much time on their hands.

 

[xNoOnex]

I’m not comparing pedofiles to homosexuals. I was responding to the argument that God wouldn’t make broken people and not want them to follow their longings. If this argument is valid, then it should apply to all versions of broken people.

I still feel that it’s different and don’t believe that pedophiles legitimately feel sexually attracted to children, exclusively. To put it bluntly, for the vast majority of pedophiles, I believe its little different than bestiality. It’s a deviance, not a actual orientation.

For those that literally can’t help themselves, because of some form of mental illness, they should receive our compassion too. (Although most certainly not our acceptance of their desires; their actions can hurt others.)

 

[Regina7]

I still feel that it’s different and don’t believe that pedophiles legitimately feel sexually attracted to children, exclusively. To put it bluntly, for the vast majority of pedophiles, I believe its little different than bestiality. It’s a deviance, not a actual orientation.

For those that literally can’t help themselves, because of some form of mental illness, they should receive our compassion too. (Although most certainly not our acceptance of their desires; their actions can hurt others.)

Deviance, orientation- it’s all the same. Pedofiles, bestiality, addicts, homosexuals, murderers- they are all “broken.” Regardless of whether these people are born like this or not, they are broken, not the norm. Homosexuals represent like 3% of the population- not the norm. If homosexuals weren’t “broken,” then they would be able to reproduce, a main purpose of sex, but NONE of them can.

If you are staying away from the Church because of the argument that God doesn’t make broken people and not expect them to follow their longings, it doesn’t work.

I have addiction problems. When I was young (like 10) I was given medicine for migraines. They were opioids. At 10 years old, I started taking them even when I didn’t have a headache. I became addicted (my parents never should have let me have control of these meds but that’s besides the point). I had no addicts in my family. I didn’t even see my parents drink much alcohol and never to excess. I didn’t learn this behavior from anyone and nothing was going on in my life that would make me want to escape.

Like a homosexual orientation, my addiction issues is a cross. I’ve dealt with it since I was 10. I would argue that I was born with a tendency for addiction and I chose, like you said, to pursue my longings. Does God want this? He made me have an addictive personality, so doesn’t he want me to fulfill my longings? He doesn’t. He says that we have to pick up our cross and carry him, not get high or drunk and blindly stumble after.

 

[Jeannie52]

I have always thought that we are each born with the gender that our Creator intended for each of us to be for His Divine plan.

God Bless You

 

[Elizium23]

I have always thought that we are each born with the gender that our Creator intended for each of us to be for His Divine plan.

God Bless You

Sex. Not gender.