Transgender teen who died of an apparent suicide: ‘Fix society. Please.’

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And intersexed people do not have a disease.
And if there is something beyond “mental” with transexualism… just because we do not see it now, does not mean we will not later.
Look at MS for example since you want to compare these people to dieases… for the longest time it was nothing but crazy mental people because health people and scientists did not see anything phyiscal… guess what now? Oh! It is actually a diease that is phyiscal that effects the covering of the nerves (myelin sheath) So much for sticking them in mental facilities… I belive that is how we are going to end up looking at conversion therapy years later. Just because we come across something we cannot understand or see does not mean we need to fear it or correct it. If anything, they to learn from it and study it. You can’t “fix” what you cannot understand or see.
And this is proves it, “As it is, it is something that is entirely self-reported - there are no truly objective standards of diagnosis.”
I don’t know about the history of MS, but basing on your account and the way MS is diagnosed and treated now, it just shows that the evolution of our knowledge on MS merely altered how we treat MS and not the decision on whether MS is normal or whether it needs to be treated or not. If like you said, MS was treated in psychiatric centers back then, now patients are given medications that target the immune system along with symptomatic treatment.

Maybe the same can be said for transgenderism. If scientists find a physical cause for the discrepancy between one’s belief and one’s physical reality that exists in transgenderism, then it only paves the way for physical treatments that could target those causes.

The bottomline here is that such a discrepancy exists and this constitutes a problem, hence the need for a treatment.
 
BTW, my comments may come as cold. I didn’t intend them to sound harsh or judgmental but they are purely theoretical. Let me just clarify that of course, along with the need to reconcile the mind-body dissonance in transgenderism, there should always be that sensitivity and compassion when dealing with transgenders.

I pray for healing, peace, and strength for individuals and families facing the challenges of this situation.
 
BTW, my comments may come as cold. I didn’t intend them to sound harsh or judgmental but they are purely theoretical. Let me just clarify that of course, along with the need to reconcile the mind-body dissonance in transgenderism, there should always be that sensitivity and compassion when dealing with transgenders.

I pray for healing, peace, and strength for individuals and families facing the challenges of this situation.
Amen!
 
I don’t know about the history of MS, but basing on your account and the way MS is diagnosed and treated now, it just shows that the evolution of our knowledge on MS merely altered how we treat MS and not the decision on whether MS is normal or whether it needs to be treated or not. If like you said, MS was treated in psychiatric centers back then, now patients are given medications that target the immune system along with symptomatic treatment.

Maybe the same can be said for transgenderism. If scientists find a physical cause for the discrepancy between one’s belief and one’s physical reality that exists in transgenderism, then it only paves the way for physical treatments that could target those causes.

The bottomline here is that such a discrepancy exists and this constitutes a problem, hence the need for a treatment.
Yes but proper and effective treatment or method that needs to be accessed comes from study and KNOWING what is really going on. We do not currently know, so instead of treating it with possibly harmful treatment (as it is), we should study more. Just like MS, no one studied it and they just assumed it was crazy people when they are not crazy at all or even mental (except after the nerves being damaged in severe cases). They drugged them and isolated them and they died…Had they studied for a while before treating something they did not understand AT ALL, effective treatment could have come much sooner and people would not have been killed and treated unethically. I can agree there is a problem, but I do not agree to treating it when we have No Idea.
-Many people commit suicide with conversion therapy, that is a clue that it is not helping anything. Way more negs than positives.
BTW, my comments may come as cold. I didn’t intend them to sound harsh or judgmental but they are purely theoretical. Let me just clarify that of course, along with the need to reconcile the mind-body dissonance in transgenderism, there should always be that sensitivity and compassion when dealing with transgenders.

I pray for healing, peace, and strength for individuals and families facing the challenges of this situation.
👍 I agree we have no idea what it is like to be in their shoes…
 
BTW, my comments may come as cold. I didn’t intend them to sound harsh or judgmental but they are purely theoretical. Let me just clarify that of course, along with the need to reconcile the mind-body dissonance in transgenderism, there should always be that sensitivity and compassion when dealing with transgenders.

I pray for healing, peace, and strength for individuals and families facing the challenges of this situation.
Amen.

That simple common sense and stating the obvious may come off as harsh and cold speaks more of the state of your society than it does the state of your heart.
 
I am skeptical about conversion therapy. However, I don’t see the need for government regulation.
 
I am skeptical about conversion therapy. However, I don’t see the need for government regulation.
Gov regluation is there because so many people are dying. That is why, dispite this information parents are still pushing it on their kids, ignoring the current signs of an unhealthy pysche (from the coversion therapy itself). This therapy claims it works when obivously it is not if most of its patients are commiting suicide.
  • And No, incase anyone comments, they are not commiting suicide because they are gay trans bi ect… if so, then other therapy and treatments would have the came result as this conversion therapy. Regular therapy to help them get through life while feeling they way they do actually helps them… and does not drive them to sucide.
 
Gov regluation is there because so many people are dying. That is why, dispite this information parents are still pushing it on their kids, ignoring the current signs of an unhealthy pysche (from the coversion therapy itself). This therapy claims it works when obivously it is not if most of its patients are commiting suicide.
What percentage of kids who undergo “conversion therapy” commit suicide and how does this compare with the percentage of kids who commit suicide for other reasons?
 
What percentage of kids who undergo “conversion therapy” commit suicide and how does this compare with the percentage of kids who commit suicide for other reasons?
People who have undergone conversion therapy have reported increased anxiety, depression, and in some cases, suicidal ideation. The devastating consequences of conversion therapy are why the Southern Poverty Law Center is dedicated to ending this practice and defending the rights of individuals harmed by it. splcenter.org/conversion-therapy

“serious methodological problems in this area of research, such that only a few studies met the minimal standards for evaluating whether psychological treatments, such as efforts to change sexual orientation, are effective”
However, claims by the Family Research Council, Charles Socarides, Joseph Nicolosi, and others of “successful” conversions through reparative therapy are filled with methodological ambiguities and questionable results (for reviews, see Haldeman, 1991, 1994; see also Haldeman’s 1999 review paper is available on the web in HTML and Adobe Acrobat (PDF) format). They are also ethically suspect. [Bibliographic references are on a different web page]
In many of these behavior-change techniques, “success” has been defined as suppression of homoerotic response or mere display of physiological ability to engage in heterosexual intercourse. Neither outcome is the same as adopting the complex set of attractions and feelings that constitute sexual orientation.
Many interventions aimed at changing sexual orientation have succeeded only in reducing or eliminating homosexual behavior rather than in creating or increasing heterosexual attractions. They have, in effect, deprived individuals of their capacity for sexual response to others. These “therapies” have often exposed their victims to electric shocks or nausea-producing drugs while showing them pictures of same-sex nudes (such techniques appear to be less common today than in the past).
Another problem in many published reports of “successful” conversion therapies is that the participants’ initial sexual orientation was never adequately assessed. Many bisexuals have been mislabeled as homosexuals with the consequence that the “successes” reported for the conversions actually have occurred among bisexuals who were highly motivated to adopt a heterosexual behavior pattern.
The extent to which people have actually changed their behavior – even within the confines of these inadequate operational definitions – often has not been systematically assessed. Instead, only self reports of patients or therapists’ subjective impressions have been available. More rigorous objective assessments (e.g., behavioral indicators over an extended period of time) have been lacking (Coleman, 1982; Haldeman, 1991, 1994; Martin, 1984).1
Some psychoanalysts claim to have conducted empirical research demonstrating that their “therapies” are able to change gay people into heterosexuals. Their studies have multiple flaws, including a lack of safeguards against bias and a lack of control groups. Rather than having patients evaluated by an independent third party who is unaware of which patients received the “reparative therapy,” these studies are simply compilations of self-reports from psychoanalysts who are attempting to change their patients’ sexual orientation (and who are highly motivated to report “success”).
And even if we accept these studies’ claim that change has occurred, they do not provide any evidence that such change resulted from a particular therapy. Individuals who changed might well have done so anyway, even without therapy.
The second APA paper, presented by Dr. Ariel Shidlo and Dr. Michael Schroeder, reported findings from a study of 202 homosexuals who were recruited through the Internet and direct mailings to groups advocating conversion therapy. Most of the participants (178, or 88%) reported that efforts to change their sexual orientation had failed. Only 6 (3%) achieved what the researchers considered a heterosexual shift. Drs. Shidlo and Schroeder also reported that many respondents were harmed by the attempt to change.
In summary, scientific data are lacking to show that behavior modification techniques effectively change individuals’ sexual orientations from homosexual to heterosexual. The relatively small number of attempts that have been adequately documented appear to have been largely unsuccessful.

Does this mean that no one ever changes his or her orientation from homosexual to heterosexual through the use of such techniques? Not necessarily. It is possible that some individuals who enter such therapies eventually make such a change, although there is no evidence for a cause-and-effect relationship. Those people might have changed their sexual orientation without the therapy.

However, so-called reparative therapy techniques – premised on the assumption that homosexuality is a form of psychopathology – appear to do much more harm than good. And even if conversion therapies were shown to be successful in more than a relative handful of cases, they would remain ethically questionable.

The mainstream view in psychology and psychiatry is that people who are troubled about their homosexual orientation have internalized society’s prejudice against homosexuality, and that the appropriate task of a therapist is to help them to overcome those prejudices and to lead a happy and satisfying life as a gay man or lesbian.
psychology.ucdavis.edu/faculty_sites/rainbow/html/facts_changing.html
 
IF IF IF the stats are published, I do not have access from them. The only sites I can view are medical ones that claim the negs outwiegh the positives… There are scholarly articles here but I cannot view them.
search.informit.com.au/documentSummary;dn=990505020;res=IELAPA

Studies of sexual orientation conversion therapies have focused on the efficacy, or lack thereof, of treatments designed to change sexual orientation. Recently, given the typically low success rate achieved in most conversion therapy studies, some researchers have examined the potential for such treatments to harm patients. It is the author’s impression, after twenty years’ clinical work with individuals who have undergone some form of conversion therapy, that these treatments can indeed be harmful. This article identifies the various problems commonly presented by patients following an unsuccessful therapeutic attempt to change sexual orientation. Such problems include poor self-esteem and depression, social withdrawal, and sexual dysfunction. Case material illustrates these concerns, and therapeutic approaches to address them are suggested. Directions for future study are identified. tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1300/J236v05n03_08#.VTVU-tcjulM

What motivates individuals to pursue conversion therapy and ex-gay groups? How do they perceive its harmfulness and helpfulness? In this study, 202 consumers of sexual orientation conversion interventions were interviewed to answer these questions. The results indicated that a majority failed to change sexual orientation, and many reported that they associated harm with conversion interventions. A minority reported feeling helped, although not necessarily with their original goal of changing sexual orientation. A developmental model that describes the various pathways of individuals who attempt to change their sexual orientation is presented. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2012 APA, all rights reserved)psycnet.apa.org/journals/pro/33/3/249/
 
religioustolerance.org/hom_exod1.htm

My last post because others can google these similar medical articles and read…

“There is no published scientific evidence supporting the efficacy of ‘reparative therapy’ as a treatment to change ones sexual orientation.” American Psychiatric Association fact sheet, 1994-SEP
bullet “…scientific evidence does not show that conversion therapy works.” American Psychological Association, 1994.
bullet “…[reparative therapy] " can provoke guilt and anxiety while having little or no potential for achieving changes in orientation.” American Academy of Pediatrics, 1993.
It is extremely important that therapists, gays, lesbians, parents, and the rest of the public gain an understanding of the effectiveness of conversion therapies. Tens or hundreds of thousands of gays and lesbians have experienced these form of counseling. There is considerable anecdotal evidence that all or essentially all gays and lesbians fail to achieve their goals during reparative therapy. Many become very depressed; some of these attempt or commit suicide.

Unfortunately, reparative therapy still remains experimental; there appears to be no reliable data on either its effectiveness or its dangers. No long-term studies have never been done.

REPARATIVE THERAPY:
STATEMENTS BY PROFESSIONAL ASSOCIATIONS AND THEIR LEADERS
religioustolerance.org/hom_expr.htm
 
religioustolerance.org/hom_exod1.htm

My last post because others can google these similar medical articles and read…

“There is no published scientific evidence supporting the efficacy of ‘reparative therapy’ as a treatment to change ones sexual orientation.” American Psychiatric Association fact sheet, 1994-SEP
bullet “…scientific evidence does not show that conversion therapy works.” American Psychological Association, 1994.
bullet “…[reparative therapy] " can provoke guilt and anxiety while having little or no potential for achieving changes in orientation.” American Academy of Pediatrics, 1993.
It is extremely important that therapists, gays, lesbians, parents, and the rest of the public gain an understanding of the effectiveness of conversion therapies. Tens or hundreds of thousands of gays and lesbians have experienced these form of counseling. There is considerable anecdotal evidence that all or essentially all gays and lesbians fail to achieve their goals during reparative therapy. Many become very depressed; some of these attempt or commit suicide.

Unfortunately, reparative therapy still remains experimental; there appears to be no reliable data on either its effectiveness or its dangers. No long-term studies have never been done.

REPARATIVE THERAPY:
STATEMENTS BY PROFESSIONAL ASSOCIATIONS AND THEIR LEADERS
religioustolerance.org/hom_expr.htm
So, in other words, nobody actually knows.
 
So, in other words, nobody actually knows.
Your right. I am assuming the way the articles are worded, psychologists put this together with their knowledge of how the psyche reacts to therapy that causes physical pain and harm with how conversion therapy is performed. Also I am also assuming they are taking the people who are traumizted from the therapy into consideration on the outcome of this therapy. Because of the self claim data of the people who conduct these conversian therapies that provide flaws such as lack of group control, and inconsistences, and the circumstances of Bi people, the data supporting conversian therapy is also unknown.

Two way street of unkown with it comes to % and stats.
I still stand with the prof on this though.
 
Bold: So normalize the fringe? HRC is a highly leftist organization focused purely on subverting traditional views. That’s like giving us a link from the SPLC saying the Catholic Church is an extremist group. So of course HRC will have studies saying that the main reason for the LGBT community committing suicide is because of the lack of acceptance, bigotry and hatred. It is an insidious & clever way of making such a minority becoming accepted into the mainstream; in fact, it was all about recognition and acceptance. Wikipedia is also leans left when it comes to the editing.

And one post from you in such a topic. How telling, “IzzyBeth.”
“How telling?” Are we 12? Just because I don’t agree with your views doesn’t mean you have to attack me personally. That does nothing and it is low.

What do you consider not a highly leftist organization besides religion if I may ask? And studies are studies and statistics are statistics. You cannot argue with numbers. If you want I’ll find other sources, there are plenty out there.
 
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