Transgendered people?

[irishpatrick]

irishpatrick, I didn’t mean to be argumentative and I apologize for sounding that way. You’re asking the correct question, but I disagree with your conclusion. Yes, trans women could hypothetically have had a lack of testosterone, for whatever reason, in the developing brain. That’s a smart insight and my own experience lead me to that premise. However your conclusion - that trans women are primarily men - places the sex organs as more important than the brain and mind. I disagree with that view. The most important determinant of gender is the most important organ in the body - the brain. The mind, not what’s between our legs, tells us which gender we are. At least that’s my view as a woman with some unwelcome male body parts.

Of course, I agree that the mind overrides the body. I am coming from a different pov–sort of like what came first, the chicken or the egg. It seems to me that in the scenario I spoke of the fetus was gentically “chosen” to be male, yet something got in the way of testosterone properly flooding certain parts of the brain. If that is correct, than the person was meant to be male, not female. Of course, in the end, from the point of view of the MTF person, the view remains the same.

 

[Viviphilia]

I always felt like I was a cow trapped in a human’s body. Brb surgery.

I always felt like I was a rich person trapped in a poor person’s life. Brb surgery.

It’s disappointing to see such mocking where charity and compassion are needed. One of the major reasons why trans women feel the need for surgery is because of that sort of mocking.

 

[Viviphilia]

Anxiety is what Xanax and wine are for.

Oh, that’s so sad to hear. I know an individual who abuses drugs in order to deal with his gender-sex related anxiety and I wish there were more I could do to help him. I’ve had bad behavior in the past as a way to deal with the anxiety caused by my gender dissonance. Transitioning has helped me immensely, both in reducing my anxiety and helping me to be a better person in general.

What are your distinctly female attributes?

I don’t know, most everything? I’m lucky that I’ve always looked girly. When I first started transitioning, I was terrified that I wouldn’t “pass,” which was silly of me. I think the majority of trans women have a similar concern pre-transition and most end up much happier than before, even if they are not beauty queens. Once the beard is lasered off and the breasts start to grow, even masculine facial features are not enough to prevent “passing” for most trans women. At least that’s my opinion, but I make an effort to be charitable. There is an unfortunate lack of charity in our society regarding gender, but I believe the situation is improving rapidly. I think that lack of charity is a major reason why some people use cosmetic surgery to help them “pass.”

 

[Viviphilia]

I always felt like I was a cow trapped in a human’s body. Brb surgery.

I always felt like I was a rich person trapped in a poor person’s life. Brb surgery.

It’s disappointing to see such mocking where charity and compassion are needed. One of the major reasons why women feel the need for cosmetic surgery is because of that sort of insensitive attitude.

 

[Viviphilia]

It seems to me ‘gender’ is defined entirely by social constructs. Sexual attraction is said to be unrelated to one’s sex. So with sex organs and attraction removed from ‘gender’ what other than social constructs can be used to identify this?

Gendered behavior appears to have some foundation in biology. A popular example is that women are more inclined to work with children and men are more inclined to work with tools. This could have been caused by the gendered roles Humans filled during our evolution. Social roles themselves appear to have some basis in biology as they were built upon our instinctive behavior. Of course not every woman fits into every aspect of the feminine role which appears in society and not every man fits into every aspect of the masculine role in society. Some do not fit into their assigned role at all. Obviously there is a lot of debate about this topic and I admit I am no expert.

Regarding a desert island the interesting question for me is if a child were raised on an island in complete isolation how would they ever know they were of the wrong ‘gender’? If they had never experienced the existence of another person then they’d have no knowledge of differences. They could and would only think that they are as they should be. That is was convinces me that there is no such think as being of the wrong gender.

Perhaps such a child would display some gendered behavior, but have no sense of gender. I guess gender might be based upon both our instincts and where we think we belong in society. Perhaps gender requires social reinforcement? I’m not sure.

 

[Viviphilia]

Of course, I agree that the mind overrides the body. I am coming from a different pov–sort of like what came first, the chicken or the egg. It seems to me that in the scenario I spoke of the fetus was gentically “chosen” to be male, yet something got in the way of testosterone properly flooding certain parts of the brain. If that is correct, than the person was meant to be male, not female. Of course, in the end, from the point of view of the MTF person, the view remains the same.

Individuals with complete androgen insensitivity syndrome have the 46,XY genotype, but have typical female phenotype in that they appear to be fully female including being born with a vagina. Who is to say what they were “chosen” to be? They probably believe they were “meant” to women and I wouldn’t presume to try and take that away from them based on some chromosome test.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

Oh, that’s so sad to hear. I know an individual who abuses drugs in order to deal with his gender-sex related anxiety and I wish there were more I could do to help him. I’ve had bad behavior in the past as a way to deal with the anxiety caused by my gender dissonance. Transitioning has helped me immensely, both in reducing my anxiety and helping me to be a better person in general.

I don’t know, most everything? I’m lucky that I’ve always looked girly. When I first started transitioning, I was terrified that I wouldn’t “pass,” which was silly of me. I think the majority of trans women have a similar concern pre-transition and most end up much happier than before, even if they are not beauty queens. Once the beard is lasered off and the breasts start to grow, even masculine facial features are not enough to prevent “passing” for most trans women. At least that’s my opinion, but I make an effort to be charitable. There is an unfortunate lack of charity in our society regarding gender, but I believe the situation is improving rapidly. I think that lack of charity is a major reason why some people use cosmetic surgery to help them “pass.”

How is that sad? Drinking moderate amounts is actually rather good for you according to both modern science and the Bible (mentions the medicinal properties 191 times). Xanax is prescribed for anxiety, if one is anxious about surgery Xanax can help make it rather easy to deal with, people are doped up for surgery anyways so taking an anti-anxiety medicine isn’t exactly that surprising.

The Joan of Arc wasn’t exactly the most feminine woman considering she led armies into battle and wore plate armour, but this did not change the fact that she was a woman. Some guys like wearing heels, just because it isn’t perceived as masculine today doesn’t mean it’s wrong, once upon a time heels were very fashionable for men. Some guys like fashion, anyone ever heard of Hermès, Louis Vuitton or Yves Saint Laurent? I guess my point is even if a man has “feminine qualities” doesn’t make him not a man, those qualities might previously been perfectly acceptable in males.

Individuals with complete androgen insensitivity syndrome have the 46,XY genotype, but have typical female phenotype in that they appear to be fully female including being born with a vagina. Who is to say what they were “chosen” to be? They probably believe they were “meant” to women and I wouldn’t presume to try and take that away from them based on some chromosome test.

Let them be women, there is nothing to be gained from them trying to imitate male behaviour or undergoing surgery to become masculine. As they can’t become men they should just stick with being women.

 

[aragonjohn1]

you call them what they prefer to be called, like any other person. The folks i’ve come into contact with also legally changed their names to harmonize with their new gender characteristics, introduce themselves by that name, and are socially known by it.

Regardless of what they’ve done with their bodies, they are still creatures of the lord, and retain the same inherent dignity any other human being does.

shalom : )

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

Vivian, here is an interesting study

Sex Dimorphism of the Brain in Male-to-Female Transsexuals

Abstract

Gender dysphoria is suggested to be a consequence of sex atypical cerebral differentiation. We tested this hypothesis in a magnetic resonance study of voxel-based morphometry and structural volumetry in 48 heterosexual men (HeM) and women (HeW) and 24 gynephillic male to female transsexuals (MtF-TR). Specific interest was paid to gray matter (GM) and white matter (WM) fraction, hemispheric asymmetry, and volumes of the hippocampus, thalamus, caudate, and putamen. Like HeM, MtF-TR displayed larger GM volumes than HeW in the cerebellum and lingual gyrus and smaller GM and WM volumes in the precentral gyrus. Both male groups had smaller hippocampal volumes than HeW. As in HeM, but not HeW, the right cerebral hemisphere and thalamus volume was in MtF-TR lager than the left. None of these measures differed between HeM and MtF-TR. MtF-TR displayed also singular features and differed from both control groups by having reduced thalamus and putamen volumes and elevated GM volumes in the right insular and inferior frontal cortex and an area covering the right angular gyrus.The present data do not support the notion that brains of MtF-TR are feminized. The observed changes in MtF-TR bring attention to the networks inferred in processing of body perception.

cercor.oxfordjournals.org/content/21/11/2525.short