Transitional Fossils and the Theory of Evolution in relation to Genesis Accounts

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PickyPicky said:
We have, however, I hope, moved away from the metaphysical argument.
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No, we have not. I expect atheists and others who ignore the first principles of Western philosophy and Catholic teaching to move away but not those who have the faith. So far, only the former have responded to the argument.
 
rossum said:
The experience of astronomers studying stars that show both carbon and oxygen are being made today inside stars.
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What life do you know of that exists inside stars or in the sun?

I’ll ignore any further deflecting or condescending posts that do not address the argument. I expect eventually you’ll remind everyone that you’re a Buddhist and that the principle of contradiction does not apply to you.
 
o_mlly said:
I’ll ignore any further deflecting or condescending posts that do not address the argument
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This thread has been going on for a long time, and I am old. I can remember rebuttals from you, and what we’re no doubt highly pertinent questions, but I don’t actually remember “the argument”. Unless it is that inanimate matter cannot, by its very nature, give rise to animate matter — would that be it?
 
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PickyPicky said:
I don’t actually remember “the argument”.
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Search the thread for “318” to see the first post. Here’s the last response before the “carbon in rocks” deflection.
o_mlly said:
Putting aside what is more speculation than science on the beginning of the universe, the point being made is that whatever you claim as the direct work of God’s hand must have the potential to explain all that exists in the universe. Secondary causes cannot “produce and give being to that which [they] had in no way possessed it …”. Neither rocks nor “fields of energy” can explain the diversity of life we observe.
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o_mlly said:
What life do you know of that exists inside stars or in the sun?
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No life. Near the end of the life of a star with sufficient mass, the core comes under such massive pressure that helium atoms inside it begin to fuse into carbon in a process known as the Triple Alpha process.

If all carbon comes from living things, how do you explain the carbon dioxide in the atmosphere of Venus?
 
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“Buzzard3 said:
Techno2000 said:
But, yet God didn’t have to wait Billions and Billions and Billions of years to create the fish and bread, and the water into wine. 🤔
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Our resurrection is going to be a slow ol’ affair - we’ll have to wait billions of years for our glorified bodies to evolve from a bug!

Wait … would the bug have be glorified too? Can you evolve a glorified human body from a non-glorified bug?
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Yeah… plus you going to have to factor in all those reincarnated bodies too. 🤔
 
o_mlly said:
What life do you know of that exists inside stars or in the sun?
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Any omnipresent living deities are present inside stars.
I’ll ignore any further deflecting or condescending posts that do not address the argument.
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Biological processes do not form carbon or any other element. Carbon and the other elements are formed by non-biological processes.
I expect eventually you’ll remind everyone that you’re a Buddhist and that the principle of contradiction does not apply to you.
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Is a chessboard black or white?
 
Unfortunately 318 just gives me some of Freddy’s musings, splendid though they no doubt were.

As to the stuff about potential, sure … unless God kept butting in and adding stuff, the whole of everything that became our universe must have had the potential to produce what now exists (because indeed it did). Reducing that to “rocks [and] … energy” hardly describes adequately the amazing nature of those first few moments.
 
Capta(name removed by moderator)rudeman said:
If all carbon comes from living things, how do you explain the carbon dioxide in the atmosphere of Venus?
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I did not claim that all carbon comes from living things.

We have no evidence of carbon popping into existence in the habitable areas of earth and no evidence of life on Venus.

Please address the core argument: whatever one claims as existing with God as its first cause must have in potential to be the a secondary cause for all the diversity of life on the planet (save man). If whatever one claims is inanimate then offer the experience, not speculation, that that inanimate creature demonstrates such potential.
 
Capta(name removed by moderator)rudeman said:
I don’t believe in abiogenesis, and have never said I have.
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If not then God must be the first cause of microbial life. And God must be the first cause of plant life. And God must be the first cause of animal life. If you claim not so then demonstrate from experience, not speculation, that the microbes possess the potential to grow, metabolize, reproduce, locomote, evolve sentience, etc.
 
“Sentience, etc.” is a pretty large step up from the others, which are inherent to all living things. As for evolving traits like those, I’d like to point out that sentience is not unique to humans, and that speciation of microbes is well documented.
 
o_mlly said:
If not then God must be the first cause of microbial life. And God must be the first cause of plant life. And God must be the first cause of animal life.
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I’m afraid I’m going to ask you to demonstrate that “from experience, not speculation”.
 
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