Transitional Fossils and the Theory of Evolution in relation to Genesis Accounts

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The basic assumptions made in radiometric dating are:
  • Every radioactive element will decay at a constant rate. The rate at which each element decays is its half-life [ (def) ](javascript:define('Half-life: ', ‘The amount of time that it takes for 50% of a given number of radioactive atoms to dcay.’,‘275’,‘225’,‘def’))
  • The rate of decay is specific to a particular radioactive element (see list of half lifes of various radioactive elements).
  • When the substance containing a radioactive parent was first formed, there was not daughter element present. It is assumed that the daughter is derived solely from the decay of the radioactive parent. If daughter atoms were present that were not the result of the decay process the calculated date would be unreliable.
  • From the time when the substance containing radioactive elements first came into existence until the time that the material was analyzed and dated, the system had been closed; in other words there had been in infusion or removal of either parent or daughter atoms.
  • All daughter atoms contained within the radioactive substance were created by the radioactive decay of the corresponding parent atom. This is a repeat of the previous assumption that the system is a closed system.
Taking these in order:
  1. This is not an assumption. We can measure decay rates in the past by observing radioactive decays in distant astronomical objects, particularly supernovae. This is a measurement, not an assumption.
  2. This is not an assumption. Decay rates can be measured here on earth. Again a measurement not an assumption.
  3. This can be eliminated in many cases. For example, pillow lavas cannot be K-Ar dated because of this problem, instead some other method might be used. In other cases the Isochron method can be used, which effectively measures the original amount of daughter product in the sample.
  4. Again, not an assumption. This can be determined geologically. If one contaminant is present, then so will others. Any measured contaminant, such as water, can render the specific sample unsuitable for dating.
  5. As you say, closure of the system was ensured at step 4.
These are not “assumptions”. They are either known experimental measurements or are known problems which are eliminated by careful selection of both methods and samples. As I said above, K-Ar dating should not be used on pillow lavas because it gives incorrect results. It gives correct results on sub-aerial lavas.

ETA: Your link appears not to work after multiple tries.
 
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Potassium-Argon dating of the 1980 Mount St. Helen lava flows showed ages of between 350K and 2.8 million years. The ages are inconsistent. Lava from a 1954 eruption in New Zealand yield ages up to 3.5 Ma (million years) due to excess argon. The method gives inconsistent results. Olivine mineral in basalt is particularly susceptible to storing excess argon. Hawaiian lavas flows from 1800-1801 have yielded ages from 2.6 Ma to 2960 Ma. Again, the results from K-Ar dating of rocks of known age have been highly inconsistent and consistently over-stated.

The assumptions that igneous rocks “start the clock” with a fixed proportion of isotopes and remain as a “closed system” are not valid.
 
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The age of Earth is not determined using Earth’s rocks. It’s measured using asteroids, which are true closed systems. This has already been explained many times in this thread.
 
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s/did/didn’t I suspect there.
Yes, sorry; I meant to say “God did not have a beginning.”
I was not talking about God, which is theology. I was talking about the Intelligent Designer, proposed by ID which is, supposedly, science, not theology. Or are you telling us that you agree with the Kitzmiller verdict and that ID is not science and hence should not be taught in science classes?
Depends on one’s definition of science - theology used to be referred to as “the queen of the sciences”. In the nineteenth century, it was not unusual for a scientist to offer Divine Creation as a valid explanation for the Cambrian explosion, for example - that is not accepted as “science” today, although the Divine remains the best explanation.

Personally, I would like to see evidence for ID taught in Catholic schools; I would also like the flaws in Darwinist folklore taught .
We show all signs of being the result of an evolutionary process that tried this and tried that and if it worked well enough then it would be left as it was.
Please provide an example of a “sign” that we are the result of “an evolutionary process that tried this and tried that”.
But we are very crude models to begin with. That is, not designed very well at all … We can’t see as well as other creatures. We can’t run as fast. We aren’t as strong. We don’t live as long. We can’t swim as well. We can’t fly unaided. We can’t jump as high. We aren’t as dextrous. Our sense of smell is almost useless. We can’t sense direction.
So let’s extend your logic and see if it makes sense:
If a Porsche 911 can’t fly to the moon and back, that means it’s “crude“ and “not designed very well at all”.
If the Large Hadron Collider can’t bake a cake, that means it’s “crude” and “not designed very well at all”.

Sorry - your logic fails.
Very true. We know, in fact, that chimps did not mutate into human beings.
Hang on a sec … didn’t I see a chimp mutating into a human on an episode of Star Trek?
 
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The interpretations which the person I responded to holds. It’s not “scientism” to follow evidence and observation, and I’m appalled that you would even say such a thing to a fellow Catholic.
In post 1318, you said, “Genesis’ creation account is, however, proven false by the multitude of observations that prove it does not match up with observation” - nothing there about someone’s “interpretation” of scripture. I’m appalled that a Catholic would claim that science has proven Sacred Scripture to be false.
I’m almost amazed that you, who belongs to the pseudoscientific cult of intelligent design of organisms, claims that evolution is actually the cult.
You don’t believe God is an “intelligent designer of organisms”? If so, how did the first alleged organism come into existence? Are you saying humans, for example, are not the result of intelligent design?

What is the “pseudoscientific cult of intelligent design”? What do they believe?
What about Coronacollina acula? It’s over 500 million years old, placing it firmly in the precambrian. It has a distinct skeleton.
A “distinct skeleton”? That’s a stretch – there is nothing “distinct” about the diversity of scientific opinion and ambiguity surrounding the needle-like “spicules” of organisms like Coronacollina acula. See The Myth of Precambrian Sponges | Evolution News
. . . .
 
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Is every gap filled neatly? No.
LOL … that’s the understatement of the century! Has the massive gap between preCambrian and Cambrian biota, for example, been filled? No, not even close.

There are problematic gaps everywhere in the fossil record, but since the nineteenth century Darwinists have been ignoring them and deluding themselves that the fossil record supports their theory, all the while selling this mendacious myth to a gullible masses (including 99% of science graduates) … but they can’t fool all the people all the time.
Do we have a good idea, based on the information we have, as to what happened? Yes.
More delusion - the fossil record exposes your “good idea” as an embarrassing insult to science and truth – the Cambrian explosion flat-out contradicts Darwinism’s theory of universal common descent. UCD is a pseudo-scientific fantasy that should be abandoned.
Is it likely that new information will change some, or even a lot, of the details? Yes. Is it likely that the entire theory will have to be scrapped based on new evidence? No.
Universal common ancestry will remain the best scientific explanation for the origin of species – which just goes to show how wrong the “best scientific theory” can be … although UCD serves nicely as a comforting bedtime story for atheists and will be exploited by the Evil One to deceive people into believing life on earth didn’t need a Creator.
For the nth time, this is basic fundamental stuff. Not just for evolution specifically, but for how science is done by those who do it every day.
Science? Darwinism claims that the history of life on earth is the result of a process of mutations and natural selection – this theory cannot be tested, so it doesn’t even qualify as science.
 
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In post 1318, you said, “Genesis’ creation account is, however, proven false by the multitude of observations that prove it does not match up with observation” - nothing there about someone’s “interpretation” of scripture. I’m appalled that a Catholic would claim that science has proven Sacred Scripture to be false.
That’s not even close to what I said. You’re not misrepresenting my statements, you’re just lying now. I’m done talking to you.
 
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Who’s lying now?
You. Scripture =/= a literal account of Genesis, which is what I said was refuted by scientific evidence.

Telling that you’ve just resorted to lies now that you’ve run out of actual points to make. Don’t expect any more responses.
 
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Potassium-Argon dating of the 1980 Mount St. Helen lava flows showed ages of between 350K and 2.8 million years.
So, you believe a paper which its own authors, all Young Earth Creationists, think gives false dates? Do you want to know why they got those dates? Read this piece which explains how that paper got its biased results.
Lava from a 1954 eruption in New Zealand yield ages up to 3.5 Ma (million years) due to excess argon. The method gives inconsistent results. Olivine mineral in basalt is particularly susceptible to storing excess argon. Hawaiian lavas flows from 1800-1801 have yielded ages from 2.6 Ma to 2960 Ma.
Ask yourself why that lava from 1954 was being dated. The date was already well known: 1954. What question were the scientists asking? In 1954, radiometric dating was in its infancy. The question they were asking was not: “how old are these rocks?” – the answer to that was already known. The question they were asking was: “does K-Ar dating work on these pillow lavas of known date?” The answer was that it did not work because too much of the earlier Argon was trapped.
The assumptions that igneous rocks “start the clock” with a fixed proportion of isotopes and remain as a “closed system” are not valid.
Not an assumption. That New Zealand study was precisely to test Argon retention in various lavas of known date. Similar studies have been dome in Hawaii, again where the dates are known independently. Subsequent to those studies no assumptions are needed. The amount of Argon retention in various rock types is already known. Where too much Argon is retained, then a different non-Argon method is used if possible.
 
But both you and I know, this can only happen with the help of intelligent design.
Considering the total process, including mining and smelting metal, forming and machining it, building the required circuitry, etc., what I see is a manufacturing process. This is very different than a natural process. And nowhere will you find any post where I denied that God started it, but also you will not find one where I asserted that God individually created or built anything except souls. Like most analogies, it is not perfect, but it does serve to illustrate the point. We have only been at this for an eyeblink relative to the amount of time that evolution has been working, whether you believe that God set it up or not.
 
So many errors that you continue to assert despite repeated debunking.
although UCD serves nicely as a comforting bedtime story for atheists and will be exploited by the Evil One
Stop with the insults. I challenge you to find any statement of mine anywhere that shows that I am currently atheist. From another venue that I frequented many years ago: Provide Proof or Retract.

When and if you are ready to discuss this rationally rather than sticking your fingers in your ears and chanting, or spouting nothing but ridicule and warmed-over long debunked claims with no actual content, feel free to reply.
 
The age of Earth is not determined using Earth’s rocks. It’s measured using asteroids, which are true closed systems. This has already been explained many times in this thread.
Assumption: The earth is the same age as the asteroid.

Assumption: There were zero radioactive decay elements present when the rock was new.

Assumption: The radioactive decay rate is known accurately.

Assumption: The radioactive decay rate is constant.

Assumption: The asteroid is truly a closed system.
 
So, you believe a paper which its own authors, all Young Earth Creationists, think gives false dates? Do you want to know why they got those dates? Read this piece which explains how that paper got its biased results.
If the sample was known to be young and it was, it could still be submitted to the lab for K-Ar dating. If K-Ar dating only works on older samples, why was the age not measured as 0? If, as the article claims, Dr. Austin should have purified his sample more, to prevent an old age, how do we know that conventional K-Ar dating of other rocks is sufficiently purified to prevent artificially old ages?
 
Scripture =/= a literal account of Genesis, which is what I said was refuted by scientific evidence.
… except that is not what you said. Here is what you said:
Genesis is not proven true by the existence of God. Genesis’ creation account is, however, proven false by the multitude of observations that prove it does not match up with observation.
Where do you say “a literal account of Genesis”? I can’t see it. Perhaps I need glasses.

If you didn’t write what you meant, but something else, whose fault is that?
 
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Predictable. When they have no argument or facts, evo’s lurch for the Atheists’ Playbook . I think this is Rule #3, " You’re just evil".
That’s pretty close to the mark. I’ve spent many an hour on atheist sites and the first accusation they usually hurl at you is, “You’re a moron” … followed a bit later by, “You’re a liar” … followed a bit later by, “You’re evil.”
 
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Stop with the insults. I challenge you to find any statement of mine anywhere that shows that I am currently atheist. From another venue that I frequented many years ago: Provide Proof or Retract.
Insults?

I challenge you to find any statement of mine that shows I said you are “currently atheist”. Provide Proof or Retract.
 
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Assumption: The earth is the same age as the asteroid.
Why wouldn’t it be? Give a model that explains their separate formation and evidence in support of it.
Assumption: There were zero radioactive decay elements present when the rock was new.
If all asteroids give about the same age, no matter where they formed in the solar system, then it’s a safe bet that, especially considering the lack of identifiable decay product anywhere else, they give accurate readings.
Assumption: The radioactive decay rate is known accurately.
Uhhh, not an assumption. That’s testable and verifiable.
Assumption: The radioactive decay rate is constant.
Saying this shows exactly how scientifically illiterate you are. Constant half lives are the basis of many verified scientific theories and themselves have been measured and confirmed to death.
Assumption: The asteroid is truly a closed system.
🤦‍♀️

Yes, isotopes not occurring in the space in the solar system regularly enters the cores of solid rocks.

It’s frustrating how little regard for scientific research you have, but at least I have an excuse to end the conversation if it becomes too dull.
 
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When you make a blanket statement like “…bedtime story for atheists and will be exploited by the Evil One” while replying directly to me, am I supposed to believe that you actually weren’t addressing any of that to me? I would say nice try, but it really wasn’t very good at all. Your turn.
 
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