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stoplooklisten
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Freddy, you’re imagining things. Blood flows through four coordinated chambers with valves between them. Happy New Year to you too.
Transitional Fossils and the Theory of Evolution in relation to Genesis Accounts
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rossum
Guest
I suggest that you have a look in a biology textbook at insects’ hearts. They are lacking a number of the parts that are present in mammalian hearts, such as our own.
Despite what some on the ID side claim, it is possible for irreducibly complex systems to evolve. One route to an IC system is:
- start with a simple working system.
- add a useful, but not essential part.
- make the new part essential.
Earlier I gave the example of a Nautilus’ eye, which lacks both lens and cornea. The Nautilus eye works without those parts, but adding those parts can improve the eye. Once those parts become essential, as in mammals, then the eye is an IC system which has evolved.
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rossum
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SLL, you are ignoring things. There are working hearts with less than four chambers, all the way down to jellyfish which have a ‘heart’ with no chambers; they don’t have hearts at all.
Hearts have got more complex by the process I outlined above: add a new helpful piece and then make that new piece essential.
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stoplooklisten
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The process requires a designer. Add…and then…Sequences require a sequence designer.
I am grateful for the opportunity that Catholic Answers Forum has given us to communicate together.
Rossum, I do appreciate your knowledge of biology and what you’ve taught me and how you’ve motivated me to stretch.
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mcq72
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Yes agree. but my context my point totally was exactly that…He is the patch of all patches. He makes things new again, the restorer etc. The reconciler the saver. My other point and this where he differs from Microsoft developers, designers, is that He is not surprised by anything. He knows in advance of the glitches that arise, of viruses that develop even. That was my point. There are no design flaws per say.Its strange to us but like I said, it would as if Microsoft developed windows 11 AND every single patch and update ever at the same time, putting the latter on the shelf for perfect use at the right time…and telling us to trust the product from the very begining, saying, " Don’t worry, I got this".
The other difference is that He makes things originally good, with no flaws( unlike Windows11, and 10, 8 7 etc). What He does do is allow us freedom to enter the control panel if we, ( and other created beings) so desire and tinker, where we usually screw things up.
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mcq72
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Wrong, how so on the Capone thing? I agree they had evidence on tax fraud, and not enough on murder, rackateering, conspiracy, extortion etc. Hence my sarcasm that he then must not have done those things, because after all, one is innocent till proven guilty in a court of law. Big difference between being guilty and being able to prove it. I mean DA’s had dead bodies and strange business dealings and money exchanges all over the place, but apparently not enough witnesses ( that lived or would live, or weren’t bought off etc) so Capone was clean?
Besides, how can you further investigate when the " cops" stand down? Do you know how many local or state or federal agents ( FBI) actually invetigated anything party members and lawyers dug up? Do you know almost 70% of court cases never even considered the evidence and thru cases out on technicalities, like the Supreme court.
Like they told Nixon in 1960, “they cheated fair and square”. Or " A stolen election/ vote in Cooke County stays stolen".
Do you know how many samplings/ audits were allowed/ denied to be taken by court order of said counting machines, or how many signatures were allowed to be audited by independent parties, or even could be audited, or whether chain of custody was compromised anywhere?
But agree no evidence of "“widespread” fraud, just like Capone did not kill millions of people, (but not even a few? ).It only takes less than 1% of votes to be fraudulent to swing this election.
We are not an exceptional moral people.( graced yes). We are not innately better than said third world countries that cheat at elections. We have the ability to be very politically slanted, prejudicial to the truth. Come on man, we are not above cheating.
We have tampered in other countries elections (with good intentions) why not our own (after all, as some insinuate, we stopped a Hitler this year).
Hatred goes a long way. Some hated Lincoln, some hated two Kennedys and a King…why not this, stealing an election, banking on no consequences from authorities cause they are in on the hatred and good intentions. Totally possible. Plenty of smoking guns, and we are a flawed people.
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rossum
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Requires? No. It may have a designer, but a designer is not required. Evolution runs a massively parallel experiment adding bits, removing bits, modifying bits. There are seven billion parallel experiments going on in Homo sapiens and a lot more parallel experiments going on in insects. All those experiments do occasionally throw up a positive result.
Ditto. I have enjoyed our interactions.
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buffalo
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In case I don’t get a chance, so long fellow posters. It has been a good ride and I appreciate all of our discussions. I learned much from you guys…
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Freddy
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Buff, we’ve crossed swords more times than I could count. But you’ve presented your views well and with honesty. And with a certain integrity. At this point I should apologise if my light hearted responses (bordering too often on sarcasm) haven’t been up to forum standards.
All the best to you and your family for Xmas and in this time of covid - stay safe.
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stoplooklisten
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Riff on Petroleum (Oil and Gas) Deposits
Although conventional geology has had good success in finding commercial oil and gas deposits, there is still much unknown about these deposits. For example, is the source of these deposits marine or terrestrial in nature. How much of the source material was living matter vs hydrocarbon compounds? What was the nature of the transformation of hydrocarbon source material into oil and gas? What is the relationship between coal deposits and oil and gas deposits? How did oil and gas migrate from the source materials into traps and pools? Neither the origin nor migration of oil and gas deposits is well understood.
Note: Oil and water don’t mix and displacement of oil by water seems to be a factor in the upward migration of some oil deposits.
What does fit the observations is that most petroleum was generated from vast amounts of organic remains of plants and possibly animals which were buried in sedimentary rocks. Petroleum in the source rocks was chemically altered as it migrated. Petroleum is a complex mixture of organic compounds, primarily chains of different lengths of hydrocarbons. One complex chemical widely found in crude oils although in trace amounts is porphyrin. Porphyrins are organic molecules very similar to both chlorophyll in plants and hemoglobin in animal blood. Porphyrins are readily destroyed by oxidizing conditions (and by heat). Porphyrins in crude oils are evidence of petroleum source rocks having been deposited under reducing conditions. Those reducing conditions could be a low oxygen atmosphere (unlikely) or rapid deposition of sediments (as in a global flood. Note: This option is a priori unacceptable to conventional science).
Adapted from: Earth’s Castrophic Past: Geology, Creation and the Flood by Andrew Snelling, Master Books, 2009
Although conventional geology has had good success in finding commercial oil and gas deposits, there is still much unknown about these deposits. For example, is the source of these deposits marine or terrestrial in nature. How much of the source material was living matter vs hydrocarbon compounds? What was the nature of the transformation of hydrocarbon source material into oil and gas? What is the relationship between coal deposits and oil and gas deposits? How did oil and gas migrate from the source materials into traps and pools? Neither the origin nor migration of oil and gas deposits is well understood.
Note: Oil and water don’t mix and displacement of oil by water seems to be a factor in the upward migration of some oil deposits.
What does fit the observations is that most petroleum was generated from vast amounts of organic remains of plants and possibly animals which were buried in sedimentary rocks. Petroleum in the source rocks was chemically altered as it migrated. Petroleum is a complex mixture of organic compounds, primarily chains of different lengths of hydrocarbons. One complex chemical widely found in crude oils although in trace amounts is porphyrin. Porphyrins are organic molecules very similar to both chlorophyll in plants and hemoglobin in animal blood. Porphyrins are readily destroyed by oxidizing conditions (and by heat). Porphyrins in crude oils are evidence of petroleum source rocks having been deposited under reducing conditions. Those reducing conditions could be a low oxygen atmosphere (unlikely) or rapid deposition of sediments (as in a global flood. Note: This option is a priori unacceptable to conventional science).
Adapted from: Earth’s Castrophic Past: Geology, Creation and the Flood by Andrew Snelling, Master Books, 2009
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buffalo
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Any thought of where folks are migrating to?
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stoplooklisten
Guest
I’ve done some lurking and a small amount of posting (under a different name) here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Creation/
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Freddy
Guest
Anywhere where there’s no talk about evolution!
Tis-bear seems to have something organised which people are joining. I think you can pm her about it. I rejoined Australian Atheist and I’m begining to regret it already. I think it will be difficult to find another forum that had this much variety. I’m going to miss it. And you, you big lug…
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Freddy
Guest
Mmm. Definitely won’t see me there my friend.
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stoplooklisten
Guest
Freddy, now, you really are imagining things.
It reads like the God that you invented is your imaginary friend.
You have the freedom to make your own choices but I choose to be a disciple of Jesus Christ, the Way, the Truth, the Source of Life.
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stoplooklisten
Guest
OK. I’m wondering why. Is it the particular sub-forum or Reddit itself? On the larger social media platforms, I know that it’s quite possible that they are harvesting your data and selling it to others. Thanks.stoplooklisten:
Mmm. Definitely won’t see me there my friend.
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Freddy
Guest
The clue is in the name.Freddy:
OK. I’m wondering why.stoplooklisten:
Mmm. Definitely won’t see me there my friend.
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buffalo
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I haven’t a clue. Maybe just retire.
I wonder what it costs to rub this forum… How could we continue its legacy…
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stoplooklisten
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Article: Intelligent Life Really Can’t Exist Anywhere Else
Source Link:
Source Link: Link: https://www.popularmechanics.com/sc...t-life-exist-elsewhere/?utm_source=reddit.com
Source link: https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/10.1089/ast.2019.2149
Summary:
Note: The article cited above is written from the point of view of evolutionary assumptions but it helps to point out how remarkable and unlikely it is that life exists on earth.
Source Link:
Source Link: Link: https://www.popularmechanics.com/sc...t-life-exist-elsewhere/?utm_source=reddit.com
Source link: https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/10.1089/ast.2019.2149
Summary:
- Cosmic statisticians say the likelihood of life evolving on Earth is even less than we thought.
- Analysis suggests individual steps in evolution were more likely to take longer than Earth’s existence .
- The scientists say this research is designed give future researchers a foundation.
Note: The article cited above is written from the point of view of evolutionary assumptions but it helps to point out how remarkable and unlikely it is that life exists on earth.
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stoplooklisten
Guest
stoplooklisten:
Freddy:
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