Translating Protestant to Catholic

[jmcrae]

Reminds me of the time these two bright things accosted me on my way to work, to ask, “Are you walking with the Lord?”
Before I could even start to frame a response, the words just tumbled out of my mouth: “Not really. It’s usually the other way around - Our Lord’s the one who’s walking by my side!”
I quickly left them, with an “ummm” expression on their faces!

That reminds me of a comment made by one of my RCIA Inquirers - he’d seen a bumper sticker in the parking lot that read “God is my co-pilot.” He remarked, “That guy is sitting in the wrong seat!”

 

[dcastlen50]

.

What happens when a person is saved. They become a new creature in Christ ,old things are passed away and all things become as new. God places His nature in the person that is saved or born again. His Spirit comes to dwell with them. They will not want to live as they once did. They will have a new love for God and will call Him Father. They will enjoy the things that God has instead of the pleasures of sin. A persons desires change, they find themselves set free from their sins. They experiance a peace that cannot be understood. They realise that all is alright between God and them and He has taken their sins away. It is a change that takes place that only God can do. Most can point to the day that this happened to them. This is not an end but only the beginning. This is where it starts. It dosent mean a person will never sin but sin has no more dominion over him. It also means this is where the true relationship with God the Father through Jesus Christ the Son begins.

I could describe the time when God did this for me if it would help you understand what is ment by being saved or born again. I will never forget it and I have never been the same since.

                                                     hope

I agree with you that we are a new person when we accept Christ as our savior, as the bible says. I also believe we are a new person when God allows us to be baptized; thank God for infant baptism, as the bible says (Eph 1-10). I know, from your response, that you agree with my first premise. Often I hear from my old protestant friends, that “althought we have been saved, we are still ‘just as reteched as we were before, but we are covered in His blood. Christ covers up for us, but we are still just as bad sinners.’” If I understand my Catechism and Bible, we are changed - a new person - and we have a greater propensity to do good, follow the commandments, love; albeit, without the sacraments our free will can be an instrument that opens the door to allowing us to be sinners. We are changed but we are still infected with concupicens (spelling). This state is the reason why the sacraments, especially The Eucharist - Mass, is so very important. It grieves me that so many protestants not only do not have them but condemn them!

Since I have found the church (I was a Baptist) I have never been closer to God my Father. I absolutely love it and my Mother Mary.

God bless you. Your writing appears to be from a man in love with Jesus and a good heart.

 

[bryant]

Why is it that we need to separate ourselves even more that we are by our own prostelyzing statements. Jesus is savior of all of us. How we come to love Him and accept Him is personal wether being Catholic or Protestant. It is all about relationship to God…not relatinoship to any church or denomination. I was born and raised Catholic but have great relationships with may non Catholics. His best answer has to be honest from his heart. If he cannot give a date just say overtime I came to Love what Jesus did and am truly grateful he saved me from damnation. Keep the doctrine out of it.

 

[fxcc]

I believe this whole **preoccupation **with “being saved” (and when/how), points to a deep malady - a lack of proper appreciation of the essence of God, and what He seeks of man. I would even suggest that such a question (by itself, and perhaps unwittingly) skews/hijacks/undermines the whole central point of Christianity. And yet it’s the first question a Protestant usually hits a Catholic with!

Did Christ come to earth merely to “save” us? Or did He come principally to restore our filial relationship with our Father, shattered by the sin of our first parents? Does a jealous God seek merely to be “received as personal Lord and Savior” (via a Sinner’s Prayer or otherwise) or does the One who “loved us first” crave **much **more - to be intimately adored as “my God, my all”? Was Christ’s mission simply to free us from the bonds of sin and the prospect of hell or did He dwell among us to teach us (very specifically) how to love - even to death on a Cross? The really relevant question therefore (to my mind anyway), isn’t “Are you saved”, or even less, “When were you saved?” but “Do you love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul and with all your strength? And, in practical demonstration of this, do you truly love your neighbor as yourself?”

How could such a profound question ever be asked on some application form (to join a mere dance group, to boot)? And if it were, how many of us could truthfully answer yes? Further, if the answer is indeed yes, would it really matter when the loving began? In any case it’d virtually always be a case of “Late have I loved Thee, Thou who hast loved me from all eternity”.

From this point of view, without the Eucharist in a Christian’s life - the most intimate union a Christian can have with a loving, self-emptying God, this side of heaven - all these other (seemingly paramount) questions about our faith lives and our salvation are quite so rhetorical, wouldn’t you say? Must be a reason Catholics never ask questions like that!

O my God, I am heartily sorry for having offended Thee, and I detest all my sins, because I dread the loss of heaven, and the pains of hell (from which I seek to be saved); but most of all because they offend Thee, my God, Who are all good and deserving of all my love.

 

[fxcc]

Originally Posted by Bryant

Keep the doctrine out of it.

Hey, I didn’t know one could be a Christian without authentic, infallible and unchanging doctrine? What should guide our beliefs and our faith sharing? Personal understanding and private revelations of the most profound Mysteries of God? Was I supposed to figure out the existence of the Holy Trinity or Christ’s real presence in the Eucharist by myself? I know about those things because the Church which Christ founded and commissioned to teach and preach, obeyed His orders and taught me. And to those **doctrines **I gave my humble assent of faith!

 

[EvelynEVF]

Fxcc, you sound like a Franciscan

When asked if you are saved, I would personally avoid saying “I hope so!” because it sounds like you think it’s a long shot and you don’t really know. My spiritual director once answered it, “I’m counting on it!” back when I was an evangelical, and I found that much more satisfying.

 

[ChattBear]

Hopefully I can help shed some light. I am a protestant minister and have come to this site to gain wisdom and learn about my friends in the Catholic faith. Also having a friend that became a priest has helped in some of my understanding. It is always amazing how much misunderstanding exists on both sides and it saddens me. The more I read the more I find the common ground that we are all followers of God the Father and Jesus His precious Son.
I wish my protestant ministers would put greater thought into the signup sheets and other information that is open to all the public. The question that was asked was truly an evangelical one but I can see how it would cause confusion and speculation. From the churches I have served in (Baptist, Methodist, Pres, and non-denom) it has never been meant to be a question to screen out Catholics or any other. Also if “no” was put down we would have never excluded as well. It is a question for the purpose to evangelize and not necessarily always to recruit (even though each church can be different in that approach)… What I am referring to as evangelize is to make sure the person has a relationship with God.
So to answer your question in a way where you can fill out their application. I would put down the date of Confirmation. If I understand Confirmation correctly (and Methodist also have a confirmation class) it is a time of training so that the individual has the knowledge needed to grow in their walk with God and understand the church. (that is keeping it basic.)
I would also point out that I would agree with some of those who are concerned about him being influenced by the group he will be with. That is going to be true with religion, politics, clicks in school, etc. We must train our children in what they believe so that when they are with different faiths or even some of like faith, they will be able to stay true to what they believe.
Hope this helps and again, I’m not on here to be against but to understand.
May the love of Christ be upon you all.

 

[fxcc]

Fxcc, you sound like a Franciscan

I was baptised Francis (after St Francis Xavier) but I love the other bloke too!

One of my Franciscan priest mentors told me the other day that when St Francis first met the Pope, the Pontiff, wanting to test his obedience &/or dismiss him, suggested he go and roll around in pig poo. Guess what Francis and his scruffy bunch of followers did?

Apparently, the stench when they re-entered the Vatican was sufficient for the good Pontiff to grant them what they sought, with great alacrity!

 

[bryant]

fxcc. I was not responding to your posting but to the postings from earlier responses. I do believe we need doctrine but we are to come together as brothers in Christ out of love and find the common ground that unites us as Christians. These are found in the Nicene Creed. Most denominations and evangelicals hold these basic beliefs. The Grace of God is upon all. Sinner and saved alike. How we respond to His Grace is what establishes our Love with the Father and Jesus. Thus begins the relationship of wanting to know more about our loving God. I am just saying that we cannot be narrow minded in our approach to our Protestant Bretheran.

 

[jmcrae]

EvelynEVF;6164454:

Fxcc, you sound like a Franciscan

I was baptised Francis (after St Francis Xavier) but I love the other bloke too!

One of my Franciscan priest mentors told me the other day that when St Francis first met the Pope, the Pontiff, wanting to test his obedience &/or dismiss him, suggested he go and roll around in pig poo. Guess what Francis and his scruffy bunch of followers did?

Apparently, the stench when they re-entered the Vatican was sufficient for the good Pontiff to grant them what they sought, with great alacrity!

Well, hey - he knew that St. Francis would obey him no matter what he commanded - he knew it was safe to trust him with the ministry.

 

[dcastlen50]

Why is it that we need to separate ourselves even more that we are by our own prostelyzing statements. Jesus is savior of all of us. How we come to love Him and accept Him is personal wether being Catholic or Protestant. It is all about relationship to God…not relatinoship to any church or denomination. I was born and raised Catholic but have great relationships with may non Catholics. His best answer has to be honest from his heart. If he cannot give a date just say overtime I came to Love what Jesus did and am truly grateful he saved me from damnation. Keep the doctrine out of it.

That is C.S. Lewis’ conversion; over a long time, there was no “moment.”

 

[dcastlen50]

I believe this whole **preoccupation **with “being saved” (and when/how), points to a deep malady - a lack of proper appreciation of the essence of God, and what He seeks of man. I would even suggest that such a question (by itself, and perhaps unwittingly) skews/hijacks/undermines the whole central point of Christianity. And yet it’s the first question a Protestant usually hits a Catholic with!

Did Christ come to earth merely to “save” us? Or did He come principally to restore our filial relationship with our Father, shattered by the sin of our first parents? Does a jealous God seek merely to be “received as personal Lord and Savior” (via a Sinner’s Prayer or otherwise) or does the One who “loved us first” crave **much **more - to be intimately adored as “my God, my all”? Was Christ’s mission simply to free us from the bonds of sin and the prospect of hell or did He dwell among us to teach us (very specifically) how to love - even to death on a Cross? The really relevant question therefore (to my mind anyway), isn’t “Are you saved”, or even less, “When were you saved?” but “Do you love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul and with all your strength? And, in practical demonstration of this, do you truly love your neighbor as yourself?”

How could such a profound question ever be asked on some application form (to join a mere dance group, to boot)? And if it were, how many of us could truthfully answer yes? Further, if the answer is indeed yes, would it really matter when the loving began? In any case it’d virtually always be a case of “Late have I loved Thee, Thou who hast loved me from all eternity”.

From this point of view, without the Eucharist in a Christian’s life - the most intimate union a Christian can have with a loving, self-emptying God, this side of heaven - all these other (seemingly paramount) questions about our faith lives and our salvation are quite so rhetorical, wouldn’t you say? Must be a reason Catholics never ask questions like that!

O my God, I am heartily sorry for having offended Thee, and I detest all my sins, because I dread the loss of heaven, and the pains of hell (from which I seek to be saved); but most of all because they offend Thee, my God, Who are all good and deserving of all my love.

A perfect answer. Dominus vobiscum

 

[fxcc]

Hopefully I can help shed some light. I am a protestant minister and have come to this site to gain wisdom and learn about my friends in the Catholic faith. Also having a friend that became a priest has helped in some of my understanding. It is always amazing how much misunderstanding exists on both sides and it saddens me. The more I read the more I find the common ground that we are all followers of God the Father and Jesus His precious Son.
I wish my protestant ministers would put greater thought into the signup sheets and other information that is open to all the public. The question that was asked was truly an evangelical one but I can see how it would cause confusion and speculation. From the churches I have served in (Baptist, Methodist, Pres, and non-denom) it has never been meant to be a question to screen out Catholics or any other. Also if “no” was put down we would have never excluded as well. It is a question for the purpose to evangelize and not necessarily always to recruit (even though each church can be different in that approach)… What I am referring to as evangelize is to make sure the person has a relationship with God.
So to answer your question in a way where you can fill out their application. I would put down the date of Confirmation. If I understand Confirmation correctly (and Methodist also have a confirmation class) it is a time of training so that the individual has the knowledge needed to grow in their walk with God and understand the church. (that is keeping it basic.)
I would also point out that I would agree with some of those who are concerned about him being influenced by the group he will be with. That is going to be true with religion, politics, clicks in school, etc. We must train our children in what they believe so that when they are with different faiths or even some of like faith, they will be able to stay true to what they believe.
Hope this helps and again, I’m not on here to be against but to understand.
May the love of Christ be upon you all.

How does that help? Indeed, what does a mere claim of a relationship with God actually say about anyone? Some of the worst politicians, despots, criminals and mass murderers of history would claim to have a relationship (even a special one) with God. Even now we’re witnessing self-professed ‘Christians’ (including church going Catholics) actively pushing the culture of death in the world! They’d all say they’d been “saved” or similar.

This whole business of “relationship with God” and notions of salvation are so open ended at times, even if emotionally authentic. It wouldn’t be, if all Christians accepted the one/fullness of truth (as Christ desires) and consequently, followed one set of absolute moral guidelines. Available at a Catholic church near to you! Or under “Catechism of the Catholic Church” in Google!

 

[Monte1945]

There are two totally different concepts of sharing in the "salvation’ of God through
the shed blood of Jesus from the Catholic and the non catholic point of view.

And it is quite different in attempting to explain the two different “meanings” of
the different schools of though and from the same scriptures…

It is always the problem of reading a sentence and understanding what was
written and then to know what was actually “meant” from that which was written.

From the same scriptures there is two different understandings of how one
is “saved” by God.

Both views agree that people are saved by the gift of Faith in that Jesus
was/is the Son of God and that we are sinners and with a repentent
prayer we can have our sins forgiven by God and be “saved”

The different ways which catholics and non-catholics understand this is
from this different views:

One of the main diffficulties of understanding our Faith is from the state of the “nature” of mankind from the sin in the garden of Eden.

Catholic doctrine states that the human nature of man had an infusion
of the divine nature when Adam and Eve were created and then when Adam and Eve turned from living out their lives from that infused nature God removed that divine part of man’s nature… and the key here is that he left that nature “intact”
His human nature was not affected or damanged by the sin of Adam and Eve and they were capable of loving in the right way but from their human nature alone they didn’t.

The non-catholic doctrine states that when Adam and Eve turned to the tree of
knowledge between good and evil it damaged their natures to the effect that
they could never be completely good… And the only way they could be saved
from hell and punishment, they had to have “mercy” through the shed blood
of Jesus. And when they professed that they were in sin and asked in the name of Jesus
for forgiveness… The death and resurrection of Jesus “covers” all of their sin from
that “moment” on.

This doctrine falls under the doctrine title of:

“The Total Depravity of man”

The catholic doctrine states that if one is baptised in the water… that divine nature
which was taken from Adam and Eve comes 'again" to their soul and lives in there… and through that Grace one can do good things. And it is through his new nature that he “can” go with the flow of God. As a catholic receives the Grace of God daily… he grows into the works of God through his new nature which is being infused again with the Holy Spirit which actually changes his nature and his relationship with God and now is on a know as you need to know for your relationship with God as He might want from you… to your good works and this is a life long process.
There fore a catholic does not have one moment in time when he is right with God
He/She has been growing in this Process from the day his baptism… which for many craddle catholics that is within the first month or so of their birth…

The catholic doesn’t have that adult moment when he saids… I am a sinner and calls
upon the lord to give him the Grace of Forgiveness… but he does have parents
and God parents who make a vow on his/her Baptism day that they will expose that child to the love of God and enroll that child into catechism as his age warrents it.
Somewhere in that process that child was to be confronted with the fact of his faith
and that he is to develop his/her relationship with God.

God judges the parents and god parents on the behavior of the child prior to his/her
confirmation date. which is the date the child is responsable for his/her own decisions
in life. Most catholics go through this and never know of a moment when they didn’t have their faith and then a day when they did… like the non catholics have…

The catholic church witnesses to the child all of it’s life and slowly guides it into
the grace of God through the Sacraments…

Not as the non catholic who has experienced a one moment of his normally adult life when he confessed that he was a sinner and needed God’s grace of “forgiveness” for his sins… and thus he has a date where he can say… “I got saved on oct. 5th 1999 at six pm.”

It is a total different meaning to each. I don’t know how anyone would answer that
question directly. But I think this is some insight as to why it could be difficult for one to answer that as a catholic to a non catholic…

I think that each side is doing the same thing but doing it from different means…

 

[ChattBear]

How does that help? Indeed, what does a mere claim of a relationship with God actually say about anyone? Some of the worst politicians, despots, criminals and mass murderers of history would claim to have a relationship (even a special one) with God. Even now we’re witnessing self-professed ‘Christians’ (including church going Catholics) actively pushing the culture of death in the world! They’d all say they’d been “saved” or similar.

This whole business of “relationship with God” and notions of salvation are so open ended at times, even if emotionally authentic. It wouldn’t be, if all Christians accepted the one/fullness of truth (as Christ desires) and consequently, followed one set of absolute moral guidelines. Available at a Catholic church near to you! Or under “Catechism of the Catholic Church” in Google!

Been reading the website for a year now. This was my first and last post. The help I was giving was the filling out of a form that had not been thought through carefully by the dance team and to hopefully give a true picture of it’s meaning and not a form to screen or exclude.
I’m sorry if I unintentionally offended you.
God’s grace to you.

 

[aspirant]

This was my first and last post.

I hope not.

 

[fxcc]

Been reading the website for a year now. This was my first and last post. The help I was giving was the filling out of a form that had not been thought through carefully by the dance team and to hopefully give a true picture of it’s meaning and not a form to screen or exclude.
I’m sorry if I unintentionally offended you.
God’s grace to you.

Hey, absolutely no offence taken or intended! Truly! For reconciliation and unity (in line with Our Lord’s express High Priestly prayer), few things are as important to separated Christians as better understanding of each other’s viewpoints and, importantly, the rationale behind them! So please do keep posting! We still have much to understand about each other. And this is surely the best facilitating forum for that on the net.

God bless you.

 

[JustaServant]

Been reading the website for a year now. This was my first and last post.

Then I would have chosen a different username.

I think it would be advantageous for you to continue posting. Despite a few tongue-in-cheek posts, our Protestants on this forum enrich the conversation.

 

[voltape]

Wait, wait, wait!! you say they only perform. But then, why do they ask such a protestant slanted question? My suspicion is that they’ll start with some as innocent as performing and then they undercoverly or just openly start infiltrating protestant beliefs. And your son would be among them. My advice: keep the boy away. There are magnificent performing activities within the Roman Catholic Church to resort to

 

[voltape]

Dear David:
Wait, wait, wait!! you say they only perform. But then, why do they ask such a protestant slanted question? My suspicion is that they’ll start with some as innocent as performing and then they undercoverly or just openly start infiltrating protestant beliefs. And your son would be among them. My advice: keep the boy away. There are magnificent performing activities within the Roman Catholic Church to resort to