Translating the Tridentine mass into english

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Jon_Mallory

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Just as EO Christians translate the liturgy of St. John Chrysostom into into other languages, why can’t the Tridentine mass also be translated into other languages? It seems like a happy compromise to me.
 
It certainly “could” be done.

All that would be required would be papal permission of one kind or another, followed by some method of approving the actual translated texts.

A minor change to the norms for Summorum Pontificum adding such a clause would be one example.

There is no reason why it cannot be done. It is simply that no pope has ever decided to do it.
 
Do you mean translate it into English or celebrate it in English?

As for the former, most older Missals had translations of the Mass into the vernacular. As far as I know, they weren’t officially endorsed translations but they served the purpose of helping the reader follow along.

As for celebrating the Mass in English, what would be the point? Most people who have an affection for the older form of the Mass also have an affection for the Latin. Personally, I would rather attend a well-said OF Mass in Latin than an EF Mass in English.

Who would this compromise seek to reach?
 
Just for curiosity…did anyone actualy made a faithfull translation, even if unauthorized? Any chanse of finding one online?
 
SilverAvenger said:
Just for curiosity…did anyone actualy made a faithfull translation, even if unauthorized? Any chanse of finding one online?
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There are plenty of published missals. They are widely available today either as used books or as reprints.

I think it’s fair to say that the translations were/are “faithful.”
 
Corki said:
Do you mean translate it into English or celebrate it in English?

As for the former, most older Missals had translations of the Mass into the vernacular. As far as I know, they weren’t officially endorsed translations but they served the purpose of helping the reader follow along.

As for celebrating the Mass in English, what would be the point? Most people who have an affection for the older form of the Mass also have an affection for the Latin. Personally, I would rather attend a well-said OF Mass in Latin than an EF Mass in English.

Who would this compromise seek to reach?
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Celebrate in english. Sorry, I was kind’ve rushed when I wrote the OP. I think the compromise would reach those who are dissatisfied with the EF because it is celebrated in a language they do not understand but otherwise have no objections to it.
 
Jon_Mallory said:
Celebrate in english. Sorry, I was kind’ve rushed when I wrote the OP. I think the compromise would reach those who are dissatisfied with the EF because it is celebrated in a language they do not understand but otherwise have no objections to it.
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So, I guess the question is – are there more Catholics that like the form of the EF but not Latin or more Catholics that like Latin?

There is official Church teaching that Bishops are responsible for making sure that the faithful know the basic Mass prayers of Mass in Latin. Right now, the only ones who do that with any regularity are those that support the EF Mass in Latin or the OF in Latin in their dioceses. How would they do that outside of a Latin Mass?
 
Corki said:
So, I guess the question is – are there more Catholics that like the form of the EF but not Latin or more Catholics that like Latin?

There is official Church teaching that Bishops are responsible for making sure that the faithful know the basic Mass prayers of Mass in Latin. Right now, the only ones who do that with any regularity are those that support the EF Mass in Latin or the OF in Latin in their dioceses. How would they do that outside of a Latin Mass?
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Canon 401.1
 
Our paris has, for the EF, pamphlet sized missal in Latin/English and Latin/Spanish. I thing they are from Una Voce, but would have to check. I have a hand missal that I got just a few years ago with Latin on one side of the open pages and English on the other. It’s not difficult to get one.
 
It’s worth noting that certain groups of Anglicans and Western Rite Orthodox celebrate English liturgies that are very close (though not 100% identical) translations of the Tridentine Mass. So it’s been already been done, just not with RCC permission.
 
And I have tet to find a satisfying answer! Also, many of the threads regarding the tridentine mass get closed because there’s always some hothead with an axe to grind who breaks forum rules by pitting the EF against the OF, which I don’t want to happen. Maybe this thread will break the cycle. Here’s to hoping.
 
Didn’t you ask the question before on another thread, which was not just closed but removed altogether? Who’s the one with the axe to grind again?

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Jon_Mallory said:
Just as EO Christians translate the liturgy of St. John Chrysostom into into other languages, why can’t the Tridentine mass also be translated into other languages? It seems like a happy compromise to me.
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The second instruction (Tres Abhinc Annos) of 1967 allowed the vernacular use of the Canon of the Mass. In 1967, ICEL produced an official English translation of the Roman Canon known today as Eucharistic Prayer I.

At that time the entire Mass was celebrated in English in some parishes.
 
Vico said:
The second instruction (Tres Abhinc Annos) of 1967 allowed the vernacular use of the Canon of the Mass. In 1967, ICEL produced an official English translation of the Roman Canon known today as Eucharistic Prayer I.

At that time the entire Mass was celebrated in English in some parishes.
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But the Mass had also been altered in many ways through the rubrical reforms of 1965, so would not fulfill the hopes of those who want the ceremony of the TLM (as known through its continued 1962 existence) celebrated in the vernacular.
 
Andreas_Hofer said:
But the Mass had also been altered in many ways through the rubrical reforms of 1965, so would not fulfill the hopes of those who want the ceremony of the TLM (as known through its continued 1962 existence) celebrated in the vernacular.
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You raise a good point. It’s true that they removed the Prayers at the Foot of the Altar and the Last Gospel and shortened the communion formula in 1965. And it’s also true that they would eliminate all the signs of crosses, bows, etc in 1967. However, they would also audibilize the entire Mass, something which I’m sure those wanting to celebrate in the vernacular would want as well. This alone goes against the integrity of the 1962 Missal, which consists of a lot more than the Latin texts.

If anything, they should follow the wishes of the Vatican II council and recent Popes and restore Latin in parts of the reformed liturgy. We have more than enough vernacular already causing cultural and translational wars.
 
Andreas_Hofer said:
But the Mass had also been altered in many ways through the rubrical reforms of 1965, so would not fulfill the hopes of those who want the ceremony of the TLM (as known through its continued 1962 existence) celebrated in the vernacular.
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I remember there were a lot of changes and transitioned from Latin to Latin and English and then English and communion changes also. I was an altar boy when we used the Roman Missal of 1920 through the changes made in 1967.
 
For the record Pope John Paul II in his 1984 Quattuor Abhinc Annos officially restored the older rite based on several conditions, one of which was
These celebrations must be according to the 1962 Missal and in Latin.
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And AFAIK, subsequent documents *Ecclesia Dei *and Summorum Pontificum did not change this.
 
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