Translation Differences--Christians of the True Faith, Right-Believing Christians, Orthodox Christians

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ConstantineTG said:
Is that what your translation says?
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As opposed to “orthodox Christians” (with the same intent and meaning), yes,

We’re not brave enough to say “orthodox Christians” 😃 - remember, we have a church divided.

FWIW - I was in a Ruthenian parish now served by a Ukrainian-trained priest. He said “orthodox Christians” out of habit when he first arrived - it caused quite a stir …
 
ByzCathCantor said:
As opposed to “orthodox Christians” (with the same intent and meaning), yes,

We’re not brave enough to say “orthodox Christians” 😃 - remember, we have a church divided.

FWIW - I was in a Ruthenian parish now served by a Ukrainian-trained priest. He said “orthodox Christians” out of habit when he first arrived - it caused quite a stir …
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But it is “Orthodox Christians”!

Yeah, we’ve only recently revereted to that, we’ve had “right believing Christians” and even “Catholic Christians” in the past. At the Patriarchial Divine Liturgy it was said once in English and I didn’t see the RC bishops flinch 😛
 
ByzCathCantor said:
They were likely too stunned by the majesty of the entire DL to notice 😃
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Well, brother, whenever I’m at vespers at an Orthodox church, I try not to flinch when they close out their service by asking to preserve Orthodox Christians, stamp out all heresy, schisms/schismatics, etc. I just pray as they do. Hopefully, if there’s reunion, it’s done in a way pleasing onto the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
 
ByzCathCantor said:
They were likely too stunned by the majesty of the entire DL to notice 😃
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Not to mention His Beatitude’s sweet sounding voice. I bet he could have chanted heresy (not that he will) and they’ll still say “Amen”. :D:thumbsup:
 
lssanjose said:
Well, brother, whenever I’m at vespers at an Orthodox church, I try not to flinch when they close out their service by asking to preserve Orthodox Christians, stamp out all heresy, schisms/schismatics, etc. I just pray as they do.
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I always feel comfortable among the Orthodox, and also pray as they do for honorable intentions.
lssanjose said:
Hopefully, if there’s reunion, it’s done in a way pleasing onto the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
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[SIGN]Amen![/SIGN]
 
The Melkites (at least the official Melkite translations) say “orthodox Faith” or “orthodox Christians.” It might capitalize the “O,” but I can’t remember off the top of my head. Regardless of whether or not the “O” is capitalized, “orthodox” hear is not meant to refer to the institutional Orthodox Church(es) (much the same way “catholic” in the Creed is not meant to refer to the institutional Catholic Church). Rather “orthodox” refers to right-believing Christians of the true Faith.
 
We use OCA service books so there the “you and all orthodox Christians” is naturally “you and all Orthodox Christians”.

I was just looking at the start of this Enthronment liturgy because of another thread. They are singing the troparion of the Holy Cross, and sing “Grant victory to your Church” in place of “Grant victory to the Orthodox Christians”

O Lord, save Thy people,
And bless Thine inheritance.
Grant victory to the Orthodox Christians
Over their adversaries
And by the power of Thy Cross
Preserve Thy habitation

After Fr. Loya visited our parish he did a program which focused on Churches without their own heirarchs, such as my Russian Church. (Light of the East May 24, 2011). At one point in the program he speaks about his visit to our parish and that during the DL we commemorate our own Latin Church bishop, and also the Melkite Patriarch Gregorios, and also the Orthodox patriarch as well. He commented that perhaps there was a benefit in not having our own heirarch as it afforded us this opportunity for such “ecumenical prayer”.
 
5Loaves said:
We use OCA service books so there the “you and all orthodox Christians” is naturally “you and all Orthodox Christians”.

I was just looking at the start of this Enthronment liturgy because of another thread. They are singing the troparion of the Holy Cross, and sing “Grant victory to your Church” in place of “Grant victory to the Orthodox Christians”

O Lord, save Thy people,
And bless Thine inheritance.
Grant victory to the Orthodox Christians
Over their adversaries
And by the power of Thy Cross
Preserve Thy habitation
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In fact, the translation currently used is:
Save Your people, O Lord, and bless your inheritance.
Grant victory to Your Church over evil, and protect your people by Your Cross.
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I didn’t remember them chanting such at the Enthronement, but they did indeed (just listened again - good catch!). This is an old translation of the Troparion, chanted to Obikhod Tone 1 (which I’m sure was familiar to you). It is considered “ecumenical” in nature, and often chanted at such celebrations, but I was surprised it was chanted then as the Enthronement took place during Pascha, which trumps all. Even the “Budi imja Hospodne” before the blessing of the four corners was surprising, given the season. That would normally be the processional hymn (or some variation thereof) outside of the Pascal season (as is quite evident in the UGCC, where they routinely used Bortniansky’s glorious setting).
 
The UGCC translation for the Tropar for the Exhalation of the Holy Cross is:

Save your people, O Lord
and bless Your inheritance
Grant victory to Your faithful people against enemies
and protect Your community by your Cross
 
5Loaves said:
They are singing the troparion of the Holy Cross, and sing “Grant victory to your Church” in place of “Grant victory to the Orthodox Christians”

O Lord, save Thy people,
And bless Thine inheritance.
Grant victory to the Orthodox Christians
Over their adversaries
And by the power of Thy Cross
Preserve Thy habitation
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The Greek version in use (pardon the transliteration):

*Soson Kyrie ton laon ke evloyison tin klironomian sou,
nikas tis Vasilefsi, kata varvaron dhoroumenos,
ke to son filaton, dhia tou Stavrou sou politevma
*

The middle passage is:
granting the Emperor victories over the barbarians.

I’ve read also that, earlier, the hymn had Bulgarians, then was changed to barbarians.

Some current English translations still refer to 'leaders" or “public authorities” instead of the adaptation to “people”, “church”, “faithful”, or “Orthodox”. Most use still use a personified “enemy” or “adversary”, but I don’t think any use “barbarian”.
The renderings of “politevma” are also highly varied.
 
Ukrainian Greko Catholic Right-belief Church

This is major problem with Dognal Antonin who has formed a kind of church in Lviv called Greko Catholic Right believing Church of the Under the mountain Fathers. Several monastery of Basilian woman have been excluded from Church even by Pope for being supportive of such priests. These priests believe that head of Greko Catholics Husar was a heretic for allowing prayers for Orthodox in Divine Liturgy of Greko Catholic Church. This is now a problem in city of Lviv. For Ukrainian speaking people here is some information:

risu.org.ua/ua/index/all_news/community/scandals/43416

or Russian

ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A3%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D0%B3%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%B8%D1%87%D0%B5%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D1%86%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B2%D1%8C
 
To use a pun, this discussion sounds like Greek to most Roman/Latin Rite Catholics. In other words we ( I at least ) don’t understand what’s going on here. :confused:
 
Linusthe2nd said:
To use a pun, this discussion sounds like Greek to most Roman/Latin Rite Catholics. In other words we ( I at least ) don’t understand what’s going on here. :confused:
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ROFL. Thank you for injecting some levity. You might consider yourself lucky 😉
 
Robertwilliam said:
When I got to the place where the Bishop was blessing with the candles, I quit watching because he didn’t cross them!!!:mad:
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Surely there are more important things to worry about than whether the bishop crosses the trikirion and dikirion while blessing the people.
 
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