Translation Differences--Christians of the True Faith, Right-Believing Christians, Orthodox Christians

[Aramis]

To use a pun, this discussion sounds like Greek to most Roman/Latin Rite Catholics. In other words we ( I at least ) don’t understand what’s going on here.

There’s a line in the byzantine liturgy where we pray “for all Orthodox Christians.” Several lines, actually… including one of the Ektenie (litanies) - our equivalent to the prayers of the faithful - and the dismissal.

various Byzantine Rite usages amongst the Byzantine Churches Sui Iuris have translated it differently:

“for all Orthodox Christians.”
“for all Christians of the True Faith.”
“for all Orthodox Christians of the True Faith.”

I’ve SEEN all of the above in various liturgical and paraliturgical texts.
And that’s just in Ruthenian sources from the last 40 years.

Add in some other byzantines…
“for all Right-Believing Christians.”

In the current Ruthenian “green book”…

in the Litany of fervent supplication:
Again we pray for the people here present who await your great and
abundant mercy, for those who show us mercy, and for all Christians
of the true faith.

Similar wording is used in the dismissal prayers, but the people’s book doesn’t include those.

 

[Linusthe2nd]

There’s a line in the byzantine liturgy where we pray “for all Orthodox Christians.” Several lines, actually… including one of the Ektenie (litanies) - our equivalent to the prayers of the faithful - and the dismissal.

various Byzantine Rite usages amongst the Byzantine Churches Sui Iuris have translated it differently:

“for all Orthodox Christians.”
“for all Christians of the True Faith.”
“for all Orthodox Christians of the True Faith.”

I’ve SEEN all of the above in various liturgical and paraliturgical texts.
And that’s just in Ruthenian sources from the last 40 years.

Add in some other byzantines…
“for all Right-Believing Christians.”

In the current Ruthenian “green book”…

in the Litany of fervent supplication:
Again we pray for the people here present who await your great and
abundant mercy, for those who show us mercy, and for all Christians
of the true faith.

Similar wording is used in the dismissal prayers, but the people’s book doesn’t include those.

Well, I still don’t know what’s going on. But it is all very interesting.

 

[Volodymyr]

Well, I still don’t know what’s going on. But it is all very interesting.

What is going is - Catholics not want to
pray for Orthodox in their greko catolic churches! Pray for anyone but not for Orthodox - so they make up all these other names so as not to say Orthodox! Even some of them think Mitroolit Husar is a heretic for allowing prayer for Orthodox!

 

[ByzCathCantor]

What is going is - Catholics not want to
pray for Orthodox in their greko catolic churches! Pray for anyone but not for Orthodox - so they make up all these other names so as not to say Orthodox! Even some of them think Mitroolit Husar is a heretic for allowing prayer for Orthodox!

That’s not really true, but there are still some who remember family that were victimized in the Old Country under communist rule, and blame the Orthodox in part for their fate.

It takes time to heal deep wounds - prayer certainly helps!

 

[Aramis]

What is going is - Catholics not want to
pray for Orthodox in their greko catolic churches! Pray for anyone but not for Orthodox - so they make up all these other names so as not to say Orthodox! Even some of them think Mitroolit Husar is a heretic for allowing prayer for Orthodox!

Some of our parishioners are Ukrainian Orthodox… (They generally receive only at Nativity and Pascha…)

Different paraliturgical services and special liturgies have different translations within one church sui iuris… And nobody really bats an eye at “for all Orthodox Christians” in the services where it still appears (tho’ that might simply be due to not having money to buy new printings… they penciled out Bohorodicen and Mother of God, then wrote in Theotokos, and crossed out the filioque).

 

[Robertwilliam]

Surely there are more important things to worry about than whether the bishop crosses the trikirion and dikirion while blessing the people.

Making the sign of the Cross with them IS part of the Blessing!! If he does not make the Sign of the Cross the Blessing is void

 

[Denho]

Making the sign of the Cross with them IS part of the Blessing!! If he does not make the Sign of the Cross the Blessing is void

I seriously doubt that. If the bishop has only one arm or has a broken wrist and is only able to use one hand would all of his blessings be “void” ?

Seriously now, that’s just silly.

 

[Cavaradossi]

Making the sign of the Cross with them IS part of the Blessing!! If he does not make the Sign of the Cross the Blessing is void

I read the complaint as being that the bishop didn’t cross the trikirion and dikirion with each other, which is really not essential to the gesture of blessing. Obviously, if he were not even making the sign of the cross with both of them individually, that would be problematic.

 

[Zekariya]

“O Lord, save thy people, and bless thine inheritance! Grant victory to to the Emperors over the barbarians [tois basileusi kata barbaron], and by virtue of thy Cross, preserve thy habitation.”

I prefer, “Grant victory to the Orthodox Christians over their adversaries,” myself.

The Melkite Prayer Book has, “Grant victory to our Country over its enemies”. I do not like this translation. It would be different if we had a Byzantine emperor (or an orthodox Catholic sovereign) defending the Faith. Currently, the USA’s enemies are the orthodox Catholics who are against the HHS Mandate.

 

[ComeHome2Rome]

Well, I still don’t know what’s going on. But it is all very interesting.

There is at least one part of the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom (& maybe St. Basil) used by Eastern/Byzantine Catholics (& Orthodox) for Mass that prays for “all Orthodox Christians”.

The discussion here is trying to determine if the translations used within the various Easter/Byzantine Catholic Churches are word for word translations or if the translations are varied so that it reads instead “all Christians of the True Faith”.

I hope my attempted explanation helps

 

[AnthonyJ]

I went to Divine Liturgy today at a Ukrainian Catholic parish. They used the translation “for all orthodox Christians”. Are the Ruthenians the only Byzantine Catholic Church that still uses “for all Christians of the true faith”?

 

[malphono]

I went to Divine Liturgy today at a Ukrainian Catholic parish. They used the translation “for all orthodox Christians”. Are the Ruthenians the only Byzantine Catholic Church that still uses “for all Christians of the true faith”?

Am I missing something here? AFAIK, the word “orthodox” means “true faith” so this would seem to be either a matter of alternate translation or a hair-splitting semantical difference.