Translations versus Interpretations of The Our Father

[Michael16]

That’s cool, Oddbird. From my experience, the gut reaction of many Protestants to anything Catholic is “ eew. “

 

[Michael16]

Again, thank you Tis. In my experience, one shouldn’t overthink things. Too much deep thinking on a subject can lead one to some unusual conclusions unless anchored to something solid or in submission to expert guidance. In Church matters, the expert guidance is the parish priest at the local level and the Magisterium at the Church wide level.

I trust and defer to those with expert knowledge, training and experience; as well as God given authority.

 

[Wm777]

Michael’s a new Catholic and has a lot of faith so he doesn’t feel a need to look under his hood for small things like this (it’s a small thing to him, not to the OP) and isn’t aware that there are people who will be looking under the hood every day.

Part of being Catholic is learning that other Catholics get focused on the darndest things, things that never would have occurred to you yourself in a million years.

That’s a good point.

I have a close friend who is a convert. After he was initially baptized, he carried over a strong sense of fundamentalism from his Protestant days, and it was difficult to try to help him understand the non-literal, but figurative and spiritual side to Catholicism. Part of it is just his personality, as he is a very left-brained thinker anyway; but you could tell he was new to Catholicism.

I’m not saying that is what Michael is like, or even that it is in any way wrong… one determinant of spiritual “wholeness” or integrity (I use quotes because I am not sure if it is the right word) is simple maturity which naturally comes with time, experience, discernment, commitment, etc…

I’m a cradle Catholic of 50 years… The fundamentalist friend I mentioned could bring forward some awesome challenges to things I just took for granted growing up, but then I still had decades of experience in the Catholic community he didn’t…

Whatever a soul’s situation - we’re not really here to judge… The idea is to remain open to the Spirit and grow with it… wherever we’re at and in whatever we may be addressing…

 

[Wm777]

Again, thank you Tis. In my experience, one shouldn’t overthink things. Too much deep thinking on a subject can lead one to some unusual conclusions unless anchored to something solid or in submission to expert guidance. In Church matters, the expert guidance is the parish priest at the local level and the Magisterium at the Church wide level.

So you’ve been having a go at me pretty good, but here’s something relevant to contemplate in parting.

What’s in between?

You’ve got a polemic understanding, right now, which is why you’re taking issue with my question.

You’re looking at the extremes of the local parish and the Vatican, which - in secular terms - is kind of like looking at the city’s town hall and comparing it to the White House. But you skipped the Vicariates, Diocese, Archdiocese and National Conferences of every country across the entire globe; that’s not to mention the Provinces, as well as the various private ministries, missions and apostolates that are Catholic, but external and independent entities to the church proper.

I trust and defer to those with expert knowledge, training and experience; as well as God given authority.

If I may respectfully offer a word of sincere and heartfelt advice here… and, please, take it as intended, as it is a bit of an admonishment, but it’s intended to protect a confrontation or disappointment…

As one engages with the folks in the middle of the road, like I mentioned above… You’re probably not going to find as much agreement as you might think, even amongst the Priests and Clergy…

What you’re most likely to find is a lot of confused, tired, hurt, broken souls who’s integrity comes from belief in One God… Your Brothers and Sisters here often return to church when confronting life and death issues… Suppose a Father’s Daughter was caught in an unexpected pregnancy; or a relative has cancer; a person who’s spouse has cheated on them, but wants to continue the marriage; an employee, who needs work, stole money; a young couple looking to get married, and trying to figure out the right thing to do; a victim of crime trying to recover enough to trust in others; or any other situation you might find in the prayer forum here…

When people engage at these levels - it is where our faith finds the greatest relevance and meaning, and it is often the source of some of the most deep and profound thought you will ever have to confront…

more

 

[Wm777]

And - while it is good to listen to the advice of others in the Church - ultimately, you’re going to have to carry the cross yourself… You’ll find many people disagree in the church on the same subject; and many struggle deeply with different issues throughout their lives hoping beyond all hope to find redemption before God…

Right now, you are new and you are enjoying the consolations of our Faith, so more power to you… but - it is important to remember - consolations are often followed by desolations, which is normal in spiritual growth… In those moments, when the dark night of the soul comes upon you, remember the virtues you are learning now… perhaps from the sufferings of people, like Ignatius… or Immaculee… or me, right here and now!

What I am saying may sound stark, but there’s sufficient grace in it… and, when you are challenged to forgive others, so that you too might be forgiven… You’ll understand why I am contemplating the fifth petition so closely, and see that I have been here thinking of you and cheering you on all along…

God’s Blessings to you and your’s!
Totus Tuus!

 

[Bithynian]

As one engages with the folks in the middle of the road, like I mentioned above… You’re probably not going to find as much agreement as you might think, even amongst the Priests and Clergy…

As someone who was baptized into Christianity in young adulthood and then was later received into the Catholic Church later, I can confirm this to be very true of my own experience.

@Wm777’s use of the expression ‘polemic understanding’ is very accurate, and I remember (in a way, fondly) the self-assurance that first came with both baptism and then confirmation into the Catholic Church. I sometimes see it as the initial flaring of the Holy Spirit’s fire in new believers, just as on Pentecost when it descended upon the Apostles who were so deeply inspired that they started speaking nonsensically in tongues (and who thus interpreted by some as drunk).

But the flame of faith matures with time. In fact, an early Christian text on catechesis (variously titled Apostolic Tradition or Egyptian Church Order) wrote that the catechumen stage was three years in duration. Regardless, @Wm777 is correct that new believers must recognise that their zeal for the faith must be balanced with humility and understanding.

As a point of reflection St Peter wrote in 1 Pet 5:5 “In the same way, you who are younger must the accept the authority of those who are older. And all of you must clothe yourself with humility in your dealings with one another, for ‘God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble’”.

 

[Taxx]

Well I just put up new do not trepress signs on my 40 acre yard. Because last week a truck was driving aroun st night. It made me uncomfortable and I got my guns out to protect .