Transsexualism, why is it so dispised

[Elizabeth502]

I’m watching a grandmother slowly loose her once awesomely sharp mind though altzheimers, I watched a baby sister die right after birth, because she was brain stem only(supposedly). I watched a friend slowly die of Lou Gerhig’s disease. While I don’t minimize what your child is going through ,don’t minimize my situation either.

Pete is not minimizing your situation. He’s saying that all pain is subjective and relative. So far (on other threads) you have stated that your transsexualism is more painful than any other suffering of your own. And that’s all you can state. You do not know that if you had experienced a pain identical to Pete’s, you would still find transsexualism more painful than what he describes. It is not possible to imagine the degree of yet-to-be-experienced suffering, and therefore comparisons one to another person, or even one’s real suffering to one’s imagined suffering are also not possible.

Maybe if Peter were a transsexual, he would still find enduring his daughter’s situation more painful than transsexualism. He doesn’t know that. You don’t know that.

 

[aspawloski4th]

Pete is not minimizing your situation. He’s saying that all pain is subjective and relative. So far (on other threads) you have stated that your transsexualism is more painful than any other suffering of your own. And that’s all you can state. You do not know that if you had experienced a pain identical to Pete’s, you would still find transsexualism more painful than what he describes. It is not possible to imagine the degree of yet-to-be-experienced suffering, and therefore comparisons one to another person, or even one’s real suffering to one’s imagined suffering are also not possible.

Maybe if Peter were a transsexual, he would still find enduring his daughter’s situation more painful than transsexualism. He doesn’t know that. You don’t know that.

But I did mention something physical I have suffered. Kidneystones. Don’t get me going on those. One was so bad that I had to be operated on to remove it. It could of shut a kidney down if left alone. At that same time I had 6 other stones in me. So yess I know physical pain and suffering. It seems to be a general around here the attitude is if isn’t physical it isn’t suffering. Off all the types of forums out there a Catholic forum should have less emphais on the physical, but honestly speaking I see no less emphais on the physical here than anything seculer. Sham shame shame!

 

[aussie_jaz]

Pete is not minimizing your situation. He’s saying that all pain is subjective and relative. So far (on other threads) you have stated that your transsexualism is more painful than any other suffering of your own. And that’s all you can state. You do not know that if you had experienced a pain identical to Pete’s, you would still find transsexualism more painful than what he describes. It is not possible to imagine the degree of yet-to-be-experienced suffering, and therefore comparisons one to another person, or even one’s real suffering to one’s imagined suffering are also not possible.

Maybe if Peter were a transsexual, he would still find enduring his daughter’s situation more painful than transsexualism. He doesn’t know that. You don’t know that.

sorry but is quite clear to me he is saying the problems faced by him are worse because if he were saying all pain is subjective and relative he wouldnt be saying one could only talk about suffering when one has gone through what he has

 

[aspawloski4th]

sorry but is quite clear to me he is saying the problems faced by him are worse because if he were saying all pain is subjective and relative he wouldnt be saying one could only talk about suffering when one has gone through what he has

Exactly, and obviously.

 

[aussie_jaz]

as it has been so firmly agreed in numerous threads that nature does make mistakes why is it that so many seem to believe that anything concerning ones genetalia or other physical sex characteristics are immune to natures mistakes?

people can be born with every kind of physical disorder/deformity and recieve all the compassion and goodwill and have all the encouragement and hope that the treatment from the medical proffessionals will help them of their plight but as soon as that disorder/deformity has anything to do with ones sex all the compassion,goodwill,encouragement and hope goes out the window and the green light is given to minimise,humilliate,hate and any treatment to REALLY help the the person in question is wrong.

why do people think that that area of life is immune to natures mistakes?
and why do people think they have some right to show hatred and intolerance toward such people?
and why must people also feel it is ok to subject them to humiliation and harrassment?

i would like to know where such treatment of fellow human beings is taught by christ

 

[Elizabeth502]

Exactly, and obviously.

No. Not “obvious” at all. Why don’t you ask Pete? Maybe he means that suffering cannot be quantified. Maybe he means that when you love someone deeply and sacrificially, their pain is greater than any pain you can imagine yourself experiencing and have experienced. Maybe he’s saying something about the nature of self-forgetful love, which creates new capacities to suffer beyond our previously narrow worlds. Maybe he means that it would be difficult to imagine a suffering greater than what he describes, even if it might be equal.

 

[hyflyer64]

to hyflyer;

You elaborated more, but where is what I posted, in disagreement? The only part you added that I didn’t, was the Church allowing for extreme cases for surgery to be permitted, if it might ‘cure’ someone’s turmoil. Other than that, everything I posted is not in disagreement with this…

The Church’s stance is for one to not seek out surgery or hormones, unless it’s extreme.I didn’t expound as much as you, but where are we in disagreement? You actually point more to the fact that Church teaching is against transgender surgery. The Vatican’s stance is that surgery and hormone therapy doesn’t change the person’s gender. I thought my post pretty much illustrates what you posted here, and perhaps I should have posted my source. Looks like our sources share the same evidence.

Your post stated, and I quote; “The Catholic view on transsexualism, is that it is a psychological issue. That being said, the Catholic Church views surgeries and hormone treatments to augmenting one’s body to appear more like that of the opposite sex, as a sin.”

I have not seen anywhere, anything official, that states what you have. Show me where it is stated that it is a “SIN”. It does not. That is YOUR interpretation. Also, there is no statement re: “to not seek out surgery or hormones, unless it’s extreme”.
What do you think is considered extreem?? Would one contempleting cutting off their genitals or commiting suicide, be considered extreem?? I kind of think so.
Do you have any idea, whatsoever, what the document was based on? Who the person was that was consulted on this issue??
The CC was faced with a “pandora’s box” when this issue surfaced within the Church. They responded in the only manner they could, in order to maintain the status quo.
Heaven forbid that they agree with all the research that indicates that this is an intersexed issue occuring in the womb.

Excuse me but it is very late and I need to get some sleep. I will re-address this as soon as I can. In the meantime, please keep in mind that we have the same organization, or whatever, that covered up and perpetuated child molestation by priests. I was one of the lucky ones in that I never let myself be alone with a certain priest, after the first incedent.
Our hierchy is not at odds, with using self serving tactics.

 

[Elizabeth502]

But I did mention something physical I have suffered. Kidneystones.

Yes, you’ve mentioned it earlier on CAF, too. I think we get it now.

Don’t get me going on those. One was so bad that I had to be operated on to remove it. It could of shut a kidney down if left alone. At that same time I had 6 other stones in me. So yess I know physical pain and suffering.

***Kidney stones cannot be compared with the mental agony of enduring the disability or paralysis of one’s own child. ***

It seems to be a general around here the attitude is if isn’t physical it isn’t suffering.

***No. We’ve been through this discussion on another thread. Remember? (Or do you just wait and re-introduce this topic every several weeks so that you can criticize and minimize the opinions of brand new posters, or previously un-targeted posters?)

---

Off all the types of forums out there a Catholic forum should have less emphais on the physical, but honestly speaking I see no less emphais on the physical here than anything seculer. Sham shame shame!

***Actually, what’s clear to me now, after your several attempts to resurrect this topic as if it’s new, is that you seem to be trying to make CAF contributors feel guilty because their sufferings are in a different category than yours. Somehow that’s our fault, and we should switch places with you. And since we can’t, we should feel “ashamed” that our sufferings – which I assure you are no less agonizing – are nevertheless more universally understood. It is not charitable to continually try to make people ashamed for life circumstances out of their control. But beyond that, your attempts are futile. If you’re angry at the Roman Catholic Church because it may not have as developed a position on this as on other conditions, then you should direct your anger there, instead of perpetually venting at innocent posters. The vast majority of CAF posters have no influence on Church policy & moral theology. There’s no “shame” involved.

I think the most constructive position is that it sounds to me that you would profit from some professional help, which would allow you to own your own anger over your situation and to stop projecting – which in the end is never a satisfying exercise. It would also allow you to internalize a positive self-concept that is not dependent on others for its power – not on CAF members, not on the RCC as an organization, etc. I say this because this is the universally applicable journey of psychotherapy: one is released from forever blaming others for one’s unhappiness (parents, a rotten childhood, an institution such as a church or the gov’t, one’s employer, etc.) People who complete such a journey in psychotherapy find it very liberating, which in turn also frees one to develop a closer relationship with Christ. The healthier we are, the greater our potential for spiritual health as well. But it is not effective to seek such mental/emotional health on a messageboard. Board contributors are not responsible for your personal happiness, nor – importantly – can they take credit for it! It is yours uniquely to discover, create, and benefit from.***

 

[Elizabeth502]

I just want to mention that I’m not trying to be dismissive of the OP. It’s just that the approach and the subject and the targets have not changed since previous threads on this topic. I think you do not realize (JMO) that you are looking for something that we cannot give you. It doesn’t matter what anyone thinks of your personal struggles. Even if they “despise” you, I cannot think of a better season during which to unite your sufferings with the One who willingly became despised by others so that you and I could become free in Him – the ultimate freedom, the ultimate truth.

And several times repliers on this & similar threads have mentioned mental suffering. By no means have the replies been limited to physical suffering. That would include the remarks of Pete29.

 

[RedGecko]

No. Not “obvious” at all. Why don’t you ask Pete? Maybe he means that suffering cannot be quantified. Maybe he means that when you love someone deeply and sacrificially, their pain is greater than any pain you can imagine yourself experiencing and have experienced. Maybe he’s saying something about the nature of self-forgetful love, which creates new capacities to suffer beyond our previously narrow worlds.

Yes, I don’t doubt that at all. But could you remind us what that has to do with this topic?

 

[whatevergirl]

Your post stated, and I quote; “The Catholic view on transsexualism, is that it is a psychological issue. That being said, the Catholic Church views surgeries and hormone treatments to augmenting one’s body to appear more like that of the opposite sex, as a sin.”

I have not seen anywhere, anything official, that states what you have. Show me where it is stated that it is a “SIN”. It does not. That is YOUR interpretation. Also, there is no statement re: “to not seek out surgery or hormones, unless it’s extreme”.
What do you think is considered extreem?? Would one contempleting cutting off their genitals or commiting suicide, be considered extreem?? I kind of think so.
Do you have any idea, whatsoever, what the document was based on? Who the person was that was consulted on this issue??
The CC was faced with a “pandora’s box” when this issue surfaced within the Church. They responded in the only manner they could, in order to maintain the status quo.
Heaven forbid that they agree with all the research that indicates that this is an intersexed issue occuring in the womb.

Excuse me but it is very late and I need to get some sleep. I will re-address this as soon as I can. In the meantime, please keep in mind that we have the same organization, or whatever, that covered up and perpetuated child molestation by priests. I was one of the lucky ones in that I never let myself be alone with a certain priest, after the first incedent.
Our hierchy is not at odds, with using self serving tactics.

Not sure what the child molestation cases have to do with this topic.

I think you are of the opinion that I am somehow not compassionate towards people who are suffering with this affliction. Let me say again, that I am. You seem to want to twist my words to mean perhaps your opinion of Catholics, an opinion that The Church lacks compassion, which I think that is your interpretation. If you want to be insulted where no insults were said to you, and if you want to twist my words to mean something I never posted, we probably don’t have more to say to one another, on this subject. I pointed out that we are not in disagreement, and yet…you seem to think we are…so…not sure what else to add.

I hold those are who are suffering with this, in my prayers, close to my heart. Take care.

 

[hyflyer64]

Not sure what the child molestation cases have to do with this topic.

I think you are of the opinion that I am somehow not compassionate towards people who are suffering with this affliction. Let me say again, that I am. You seem to want to twist my words to mean perhaps your opinion of Catholics, an opinion that The Church lacks compassion, which I think that is your interpretation. If you want to be insulted where no insults were said to you, and if you want to twist my words to mean something I never posted, we probably don’t have more to say to one another, on this subject. I pointed out that we are not in disagreement, and yet…you seem to think we are…so…not sure what else to add.

I hold those are who are suffering with this, in my prayers, close to my heart. Take care.

Now where do I say that YOU personally are not compasionate.
What I was addressing was your statement that taking hormones and having SRS was a sin and I asked where you found that stated!? I ask that again! ??
As for “If you want to be insulted where no insults were said to you” Hun, I don’t hold back, I would tell you if I thought that you were insulting me.
I do not twist words. I don’t have the tallent or the time to waste, playing that kind of game.
I attempt to present facts and always state when I’m putting forth an opinion. Please point out where I "twisted your words to mean something you never posted!!??
Now if you’re equating yourself with “The Church”, then that is another matter and I would be very interested in what authority you have there.

I"m really OK with my faith. Do I have a problem with those that run it?? YES I do. Through the ages “The Church” has shown a complete lack of compassion, in certain issues ie: priests and child molestation, in order to maintain the status quo and it’s doing again. If this is not true, then please tell me why they would send out a document, on the subject of transexuality, IN SECRET!!??

Rachel

 

[hyflyer64]

The Catholic view on transsexualism, is that it is a psychological issue. That being said, the Catholic Church views surgeries and hormone treatments to augmenting one’s body to appear more like that of the opposite sex, as a sin. That isn’t lacking compassion though. The Church has compassion for those who suffer, no matter what the suffering is…but, She teaches that it would be ‘best’ for a person who is struggling with such an affliction, to pray, to ask God for strength in dealing with the difficulties that they are feeling…etc…It’s in the changing of one’s body, that the Church finds sinful. Surgery and hormone treatments only fulfill half the story for a person struggling to make sense of their genetic gender. Having body parts removed/added, hormone therapy to bring about a beard, say for a woman, etc…will only provide an outward appearance of a different gender, but the struggle will still remain deeply rooted within a transexual’s opinions of self. The Church doesn’t cast out rules to hurt us, but rather, in Her infinite wisdom, wants to help us. I know that there are many Christians who have no tolerance for homosexuals, transsexuals, etc…but, that isn’t what the Catholic Church teaches, to have no tolerance. Rather, She teaches that we should have compassion and love for all human beings. But, if we think that the Church should tolerate mutilation of body, to achieve a ‘greater good,’ whatever that greater good might be to the person, that is where we might disagree.

Just because we can do something (take hormone treatments to change our appearance) doesn’t mean we should. I don’t pretend to ever know the difficulties someone with such an issue is going through, but I think that one might create MORE confusion in his/her life, by undergoing expensive surgeries, only to feel that all they have done is create an illusion of who they are to the outside world. (and possibly for themselves)

So, that perhaps is where you might think that the Church lacks compassion, because She sees a person’s attempts to change one’s self towards who they think they should have born as, as immoral.

In a nutshell, the affliction itself isn’t immoral, the struggle, the problems a transsexual person feels is not immoral, of course…but if they change their body to appear to be something other than how they were born, that is wrong, in the Church’s eyes.

I’ve reread this post and have to admit that I failed to address a couple other points you made. I tend to have tunnel vision when I see the word “sin”. The reason being that people, in general, seem to rally round that word when it comes to condemning a subject.

“She teaches that it would be ‘best’ for a person who is struggling with such an affliction, to pray, to ask God for strength in dealing with the difficulties that they are feeling…etc…It’s in the changing of one’s body, that the Church finds sinful.”
You have no idea how much we pray!! We pray to be “normal”, to be accepted by our loved ones. We pray to survive and we pray that GOD take us, so that we don’t continue to cause our loved ones more pain. WE PRAY.

“Surgery and hormone treatments only fulfill half the story for a person struggling to make sense of their genetic gender. Having body parts removed/added, hormone therapy to bring about a beard, say for a woman, etc…will only provide an outward appearance of a different gender, but the struggle will still remain deeply rooted within a transexual’s opinions of self.”
OMG, do I see shades of McHugh here??
A transexual’s struggles are not rooted in ones opinions of self. In our hearts, we know who we are and what we are and it is not congruant with the image that the world sees.
THAT is the source of our struggle. Once the transition is complete, the vast majority of us are at peace. Otherwise, how do you account for the fact that TS teens to age 20, have upwards to a 50% suicide attempt rate ( success in the high teen % ) to a Post-Op rate that is below the national average.

“but I think that one might create MORE confusion in his/her life, by undergoing expensive surgeries, only to feel that all they have done is create an illusion of who they are to the outside world. (and possibly for themselves)”
In reading your post, I’m starting to get the impression that you are connected to The Church in some official capacity!? Is that right??
At any rate, you have no idea. Please do not label this as a personnal attack but it appears to me that you are expressing an opinion put forth by someone else. Like something that you read. Again, very, very McHugh.
I know that I can speak for the TS comunity in general when I say that “all they have done is create an illusion of who they are to the outside world.” when we attempt to live the life that society is expecting.
The majority of us spend a large part of our lives, trying to conform and APPEAR NORMAL. Our lives are a sham. An illusion of who we are to the outside world.
I assure you, when I walk out the door and face the outside world, the world finally sees the “true” me. The world finally sees who I really am.

I would really like to know why The Church continues to hold to the idea that SRS etc. makes little difference in our “stuggle” when in fact it is proven to be the most efective remedy??

 

[whatevergirl]

hyflyer…wow, we are so not on the same page here. lol
I grabbed much of my post earlier, from a Catholic source. I must find it, I don’t have time right now, but (while I’m not familiar with McHugh) I was in part taking some things I had read from a Catholic site, and posting it here.

No, I don’t work for The Church–I think that you have a little disdain, maybe that’s warranted, maybe not…but, in order for us to dialogue, let me preface with, I will never know what you go through. How could I? I have struggles too that you have no clue about either.*** I don’t get angry though at people who don’t fully understand or appreciate my sufferings in this life, that is where you could use some change***. Don’t be so quick to jump that because I’m Catholic, I think that surgery is sinful, etc…or that I don’t care, understand or whatever. Don’t be quick to pass judgement on people who are trying to learn. It isn’t my fault that you are struggling with this, and the fact that I’m trying to better understand, should help you to see that I’m not here to denounce your thoughts, feelings, etc on this. I think that it’s important to not help people understand, instead of becoming defensive at first glance. Just saying what I see here.

For the record, I know what your struggles are, but since I don’t personally go through them, the best I can do is listen and try to understand…and pray for you. I am not sure why we’re off to such an odd start here…lol I know that my posts weren’t intended to offend, and I apologize if I did that, however. Forgive me. I was just trying to have a dialogue, and share what I know, as limited as it is, on your affliction.

Nice chatting…

 

[Elizabeth502]

Yes, I don’t doubt that at all. But could you remind us what that has to do with this topic?

I’m not the one that needs to do the reminding, apparently. At least one person challenged Pete regarding the degree of his suffering (vs. that of a transsexual). I was responding to that. Check the earlier posts.

 

[RedGecko]

I’m not the one that needs to do the reminding, apparently. At least one person challenged Pete regarding the degree of his suffering (vs. that of a transsexual). I was responding to that.

Oh, okay. I’m sorry for putting you on the spot. I had lost track of the conversation.

 

[xyneshia]

1. Counseling in a way to attempt to cure this condition often leads to worse depression than when left alone and that person more likely to attempt suicide,

2…This type of group that thinks this way is hellbent on making those live as their sexual identity and the heck with brain gender. What I’m looking for is why!!!

1. What makes one so uncomfortable around transsexuals?

Howdy, I numbered these parts of your OP so that I could answer them in a way that would make sense. I am a little sleep deprived so please forgive me, if this is full of spelling or other errors

1. I know that this was not a question but I would like to address it. It seems that perhaps medical science/ mental health care is not giving this condition the attention that it obviously deserves. If one type of treatment is likely to worsen depression and make a patient suicidal, it seems it may be most appropriate to scrap current practices and start anew. if a person who is physically male believes themself to be female, medical science needs to treat this like anything else and help a patient find a way to cope and hopefully cure. Yes I do realize that not everything has a cure. Certainly we could discuss (hopefully not argue about) potential cures or treatments but that is not really the intention of the thread, if I understand correctly.
2. Why do some people think that a transgendered person should learn to live as their physical gender and not their brain gender? I think that is what this question means…Written info can sometimes give the appearance of an emotion that is not intended or felt, so I wanna just say up front that everything I say is with all possible Christian charity and that i do not intend to say anything in a way that may be hurtful to anyone. Life is not easy, it can be downright hard to bear…good people suffer, it is just the way of things in our fallen world.

Ideally therapists or doctors could find a way to “reprogram” the brain to fit the body. I know that every attempt to do this has failed so far. Something I learned is that it is not uncommon for sexual orientation to change when a person undergoes GRS so obviously the two are related. If they weren’t, changing one would not affect the other right? THAT is the reprogramming of the brain, in a way that most people dont think is possble. And it is a reprogamming of some part of the brain that obviously pertains to gender…so have we found out how to change brain gender yet? No. Do I think we may learn how to? yes, I do. Even though we have not found it yet does not mean that doctors should be changing around peoples genitals with surgery. it seems to me that a mental problem needs to be treated as one, I just cannot rationalize removing a healthy, nonambigous penis and replacing it with a peice of small intenstine to treat a brain disorder. Seems to me that medicine is giving these people a really terrible alternative soley because we have not yet figured out how to treat this mental condition as a mental condition. Seems like a lot of doctors shove GRS down their patients throats as the only option just so that they can ignore the greater issue. at this time GRS may be the most appropriate treatment in some cases but it really is a poor one and I think medicine can really do better…

I could go on and on but would like to take this time to address the third paragraph and dont have a lot of time right now.

1. I would like to say that I do not feel at all uncomfortable around transexuals. never have, never will. I dont hold tg against a person any more than I would acne. I know a couple and they are good people. I can speculate why some people may feel uncomfortable around tg people. But I’m not gonna because I am afraid that someone may run with it in a way I dont want them to. I have no desire to help someone else be degrading to tg people.

 

[Zoe_Brain]

Do you equate transsexualism with, say, spina bifida?

Exactly! Yes I do. But perhaps an even more accurate analogy is phocomelia.

Phocomelia occurs naturally, but it’s most well known from the Thalidomide tragedy, where some 15,000 infants were left with various degrees of deformity. Not all infants exposed to it were deformed, but many had the common genetic sequence that made them more susceptible to the effects than others. Remember though that it happens naturally too.

Compare to the effects of the drug DES - diethylstilbestrol

From: Prenatal exposure to diethylstilbestrol(DES) in males and gender-related disorders:results from a 5-year study by S.Kerlin

More than 150 network members (out of 500) with “confirmed” or “strongly suspected” prenatal DES exposure identified as either “transsexual, pre- or post-operative,” (90 members), “transgender” (48 members), “gender dysphoric” (17 members), or “intersex” (3 members).
…
In this study, more than 150 individuals with confirmed or suspected prenatal DES exposure reported moderate to severe feelings of gender dysphoria across the lifespan. For most, these feelings had apparently been present since early childhood. The prevalence of a significant number of self-identified male-to-female transsexuals and transgendered individuals as well as some individuals who identify as intersex, androgynous, gay or bisexual males has inspired fresh investigation of historic theories about a possible biological/endocrine basis for psychosexual development in humans, including sexual orientation, core gender identity, and sexual identity (Benjamin, 1973; Cohen-Kettenis and Gooren, 1999; Diamond, 1965, 1996; Michel et al, 2001; Swaab, 2004).

The rate of Transsexuality is the general populace is about 1 in 3000. The rate amongst infants exposed to DES is about 1 in 5 - the same kind of ratio we find with Thalidomide.

 

[Zoe_Brain]

Before we go much further, I would advise everyone to look at the thread on the Catholic Forums, to find out from a Canon Lawyer what the Church’s position actually is.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=299539

Basically, as long as the condition is purely psychological, with no biological basis, surgery is only permissible in the most extreme cases, and has nothing to do with the essential gender, which remains as it was at birth.

If there is a biological component, then the Church has no position other than to have the individual’s conscience be their guide.

And on that note… the American Psychiatric Association is conducting a seminar at its annual meeting in May. Seminar 10 is The Neurobiological Evidence for Transgenderism with presentations on Brain Gender Identity by Sidney W. Ecker, M.D. and Transsexuality as an Intersex Condition by Milton Diamond, Ph.D.

Dr Ecker kindly sent me his bibliography of papers. It’s 8 pages long, over 300 of them.

Here’s a small subset of them, chosen because these ones are all available online.
**
Male-to-female transsexuals show sex-atypical hypothalamus activation when smelling odorous steroids**. by Berglund et al Cerebral Cortex 2008 18(8):1900-1908;

…the data implicate that transsexuality may be associated with sex-atypical physiological responses in specific hypothalamic circuits, possibly as a consequence of a variant neuronal differentiation.

**
Male–to–female transsexuals have female neuron numbers in a limbic nucleus**. Kruiver et al J Clin Endocrinol Metab (2000) 85:2034–2041

The present findings of somatostatin neuronal sex differences in the BSTc and its sex reversal in the transsexual brain clearly support the paradigm that in transsexuals sexual differentiation of the brain and genitals may go into opposite directions and point to a neurobiological basis of gender identity disorder.

**
Sexual differentiation of the human brain: relevance for gender identity, transsexualism and sexual orientation**. Swaab Gynecol Endocrinol (2004) 19:301–312.

Solid evidence for the importance of postnatal social factors is lacking. In the human brain, structural differences have been described that seem to be related to gender identity and sexual orientation.

A sex difference in the human brain and its relation to transsexuality. by Zhou et al Nature (1995) 378:68–70.

Our study is the first to show a female brain structure in genetically male transsexuals and supports the hypothesis that gender identity develops as a result of an interaction between the developing brain and sex hormones

A sex difference in the hypothalamic uncinate nucleus: relationship to gender identity. by Garcia-Falgueras et al Brain. 2008 Dec;131(Pt 12):3132-46.

We propose that the sex reversal of the INAH3 in transsexual people is at least partly a marker of an early atypical sexual differentiation of the brain and that the changes in INAH3 and the BSTc may belong to a complex network that may structurally and functionally be related to gender identity.

fMRT zur Diagnose bei Transsexualität geprüft Ärzte Zeitung, 30.05.2006

So würden bei Männern das limbische System und dort vor allem Regionen im Hypothalamus, in den Mandelkernen und im Inselkortex wesentlich stärker aktiviert. “Diese Vorbefunde konnten wir beim Vergleich der heterosexuellen Männer und Frauen unserer Kohorte bestätigen”, sagte Gizewski.

Bei den transsexuellen Männern gab es diese spezifisch männliche Aktivierung des limbischen Systems nicht. Die mit der fMRT erzeugten Bilder entsprachen vielmehr exakt denen der weiblichen Probanden.

Die Radiologen können also das, was die transsexuellen Männer angeben - daß sie sich nämlich "wie im falschen Körper" fühlen - anhand der Aktivierung des Gehirns auf erotische Stimuli bestätigen. Es gibt offenbar ein biologisches Korrelat des subjektiven Befunds.

Translation:

In men, the limbic system and upper regions of the hypothalamus, the amygdalae and the insular cortex were activated substantially more strongly. “We confirmed this finding in the comparison between the heterosexual men and women of our Cohort”, said Gizewski.

This specifically male activation of the limbic system was not found in the transsexual sample. Under fMRT, the pictures corresponded rather accurately to those of the female sample.

Radiologists can now confirm what transsexuals report - that they feel "trapped in the wrong body" - on the basis of the activation of the brain when presented with erotic stimuli. There is obviously a biological correlation with the subjective feelings.

As regards certain genetic sequences making transsexuality more likely when there’s an atypical hormonal environment in the womb, there’s these:

Androgen Receptor Repeat Length Polymorphism Associated with Male-to-Female Transsexualism by Hare at al Biological Psychiatry Volume 65, Issue 1, Pages 93-96 (1 January 2009)

A polymorphism of the CYP17 gene related to sex steroid metabolism is associated with female-to-male but not male-to-female transsexualism by Bentz et al Fertility and Sterility , Volume 90 , Issue 1 , Pages 56 - 59

It would be unfair to judge a Vatican definition from the year 2000, based on evidence only available at that date, too harshly. It is not useful though, as it does not apply to the vast majority of people usually regarded as “transsexual”, and may in fact apply to nobody.

 

[Zoe_Brain]

And it is a reprogamming of some part of the brain that obviously pertains to gender…so have we found out how to change brain gender yet? No. Do I think we may learn how to? yes, I do. Even though we have not found it yet does not mean that doctors should be changing around peoples genitals with surgery. it seems to me that a mental problem needs to be treated as one

We may learn how to re-construct that part of the brain. The trouble is, the differences are at the cellular level. We’d have to have technology that would do surgery on individual cells, and then grow new numbers of cells of different types to populate the structures properly… it’s almost certainly easier to just grow a new one. So much is set by the 12th week of gestation that is irreversible!

I just cannot rationalize removing a healthy, nonambigous penis and replacing it with a peice of small intenstine to treat a brain disorder

One could just as easily say that the brain is healthy, it’s the rest of the body that’s disordered because it doesn’t match. (And parenthetically, most surgery doesn’t involve bowel resection except if the initial surgery fails)

Seems to me that medicine is giving these people a really terrible alternative soley because we have not yet figured out how to treat this mental condition as a mental condition.

That was the original justification for this surgery, yes. Back in 1965, everyone was convinced that it had to be a mental disease. After a while though, and as patients kept on dying no matter what treatment for “mental illness” they were given, medics finally and regretfully decided that mutilation was needed just to save their lives.

Except the people didn’t act mutilated afterwards. They appeared extraordinarily sane, and very happy, 98% of the time. Exactly as if the problem wasn’t psychological in origin after all.

Here’s what one specialist giving expert testimony in a court of law said:

Q. Dr. Cole, does the fact that a condition is listed in the DSM
mean that it necessarily has a purely mental or
psychological cause?
A. Absolutely not. It’s listed in the DSM because it
has to do with the mind, with the brain, with
emotional suffering. I mean, you also have learning
disabilities in there.
You have, you know, people who have sexual
problems, a man with erection problems, a woman
with orgasm problems, that’s listed in the DSM, but
it has nothing to do with somebody being unstable.
Q. So the fact that gender identity disorder is listed in
the DSM, does that tell us anything one way or the
other about whether the condition has a
physiological or biological cause?
A. No, it doesn’t. It’s very controversial even within
the Benjamin Association to have it listed in the
DSM. There are many people who argue it should
be moved over to a medical kind of diagnosis as
opposed to a psychiatric diagnosis.

I might add that distress over religious issues is also in the DSM.

Religious or Spiritual Problem is a new diagnostic category (Code V62.89) in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual-Fourth Edition (APA, 1994). While the acceptance of this new category was based on a proposal documenting the extensive literature on the frequent occurrence of religious and spiritual issues in clinical practice, the impetus for the proposal came from transpersonal clinicians whose initial focus was on spiritual emergencies–forms of distress associated with spiritual practices and experiences.

I would not argue that religious belief is a mental illness, and certainly not in favour of brain surgery to “cure” it.