Transsexualism, why is it so dispised

[pete_29]

This is my last post on this subject. I don’t like bringing up my daughters condition because it’s our Cross to bear and I don’t want to burden anyone else with our problems, but I must ask this. Did transsexualism keep any of you from running and playing with your friends? Do you soil and wet your pants because you have no bladder and bowel control? Can you get in and out of bed by yourself, or in and out of the bathtub by yourself?

Forgive me for not realizing that your Cross is the worst anyone has ever had to bear.

 

[aspawloski4th]

This is my last post on this subject. I don’t like bringing up my daughters condition because it’s our Cross to bear and I don’t want to burden anyone else with our problems, but I must ask this. Did transsexualism keep any of you from running and playing with your friends? Do you soil and wet your pants because you have no bladder and bowel control? Can you get in and out of bed by yourself, or in and out of the bathtub by yourself?

Forgive me for not realizing that your Cross is the worst anyone has ever had to bear.

You’d be surprised the answer to the first question in my case would be YES! I’m not going to get into the whose cross is the hardest to bare game, that you seem to want to get in to. If you really want to know what my hardest cross to bear is, and I very rarely ever talk about it except at maybe a funeral. It’s the baby sister who passedaway 2 hours after birth and not having ever seen her! But I truely can’t do anything whatso ever about. My transsexual issue, those somethings can be done to address that. If there is ever a cure for your daughter’s condition, I hope she gets it imediately, and yes I hope they do cure that someday. Having been in special ed most of my childhood, Iv’e seen many types of special needs children, both in physical and non physical needs I do know what special needs children are about. I happen to have a friend from that tire who is autistic, that in of itself presents some unique challenges. Instead of making it a whoes suffering is the worst contest , lets cure what we can , and deal with what we can’t cure to the best of our abilities

 

[aussie_jaz]

i thought this thread was about why transex people are so despised …not who suffers more than others or why/how transex people are transex.those are things that have been talked about on other threads but the issue of why this treatment of despising one who is afflicted with this condition is new.how about stopping the diverting away from the issue and start answering the why

 

[Elizabeth502]

i thought this thread was about why transex people are so despised …not who suffers more than others or why/how transex people are transex.those are things that have been talked about on other threads but the issue of why this treatment of despising one who is afflicted with this condition is new.how about stopping the diverting away from the issue and start answering the why

Because of the obvious fact that the question assumes culpability, exactly like, “When will you stop beating your wife?” (Or, “How Long Have You been Beating Your Wife?”)

Therefore, those who do not despise must first defend the fact that they do not. And their defenses inevitably invoke arguments from the other side as to how we supposedly don’t appreciate How Much You Suffer – which supposedly in itself is a form of “despising.”

 

[RobbyS]

Hi

Although many non-Catholics might fall into the the “know-it-all” category, I wonder if the the weight and authority of the Catholic Church might incline Catholics to pass judgment before they they have investigated transgender issues. By that I mean, because the Catholic Church hasn’t okayed transsexual matters, perhaps they assume it is forbidden?

Could it be because their actions seem insane?

 

[AndyF]

aspawloski4th:

I think there is a valid concern. Most feel that what has become after a careful medical analysis a proper operation for correction of a defect in gender, has now become a tool in the hands of individuals who have resigned themselves to this sinful false identity transference. They have come this far in submission to identify with homosexuality, that surely what else is there remaining but the final gesture in this exercise of obedience to the lord of this world than to desecrate the temple of God, the human body. I speak of those to whom this applies, and they are not a minority.

So I think I am not too far wrong in saying it is the fact that a medical procedure has the potential to be used on the wrong people that is the concern.

It is heart wrenching to learn of a child who’s gender does not match his physical makeup, and we are encouraged by the results of these operations and follow up treatments and the success stories are many. However, we are just has horrified and saddened by others who embark on destruction to satiate a desire to identify with a sin, albeit a very cunning and subtle sin, and they are in need of our prayers to assist in their discernment which is wanting.

Andy

 

[Zoe_Brain]

I must ask this. Did transsexualism keep any of you from running and playing with your friends? Do you soil and wet your pants because you have no bladder and bowel control? Can you get in and out of bed by yourself, or in and out of the bathtub by yourself?

In answer to your questions -

1. No, it didn’t. Nor did it stop these “friends” from stubbing cigarettes out on my body, nor fracturing my skull with a crowbar. Nor urinating and spitting on me for hours at a time, when I couldn’t escape. I avoided these :“friends” whenever I could.
2. Out of fear as to what was about to be done to me, yes, sometimes.
3. No problems there. But 1 in 3 children in this situation attempt suicide. Some complete the act. 1 in 2 self-harm.

I won’t go into whose cross is worse to bear - I can’t even judge as to whether it’s the parent or the child with spina bifida who has it the worse.

The comparison, as far as it’s accurate, is that both situations “just happen sometimes”. Both situations are often blamed on the parents by the ignorant - not taking enough folic acid in one case, having a “weak father and overbearing mother” in the other. Both situations are not “lifestyle choices”. Both situations are very difficult to deal with.

I’d rather have my child transsexual than with spina bifida. But I’d rather have my child with spina bifida than tays-sachs for that matter. Fortunately he has none of those, merely a minor Intersex condition that required genital reconstruction.

Tell me, do the “Concerned Women of America” rail against Spina Bifida as a threat to society? Are people with SB routinely murdered for having that condition? Have various religious authorities stated that SB is a mark of Satan, and the people with it should be exterminated? Are there threads on the Catholic Forum saying “Spina Bifida, why is it so despised?”

The comparison is not exact from that point of view. From a medical causation viewpoint though, yes, they’re pretty similar, as they involve developmental anomalies in similar areas. SB later in gestation than TS though.

It was that that was meant - not something that has obviously hurt you and caused you distress. That was not my intent, for it’s parents like you that least deserve to be hurt.

 

[Zoe_Brain]

I speak of those to whom this applies, and they are not a minority.

Every TS person whose brain has been autopsied has shown the same pattern. No exceptions.

The trouble is, that not many have been autopsied. And that the samples were chosen because they were “obviously TS”, excluding borderline cases. So I can’t say that you’re definitely wrong, merely that what little evidence we have doesn’t make your supposition likely.

That such people exist is probably true. The evidence suggests that. That they are “not a minority” though is another matter, unless you include those who never seek medical treatment and do not fit the diagnostic criteria for GID, People who are not “transsexual”.

I’d be interested in the evidence you have in support of your statement.

For example, the work done by CAMH and NW University has recently been shown to be based on a faulty control group. They compared the blood flow in TS women with neo-vaginas with the blood-flow in the control group - non-TS women with the natural variety. The correct control group would be non-TS women with neo-vaginas, due to reconstruction after radiotherapy or surgery due to cancer. An elementary and obvious mistake.

Every experiment involving women with neo-vaginas, TS or not, has shown the same blood-flow patterns, one different from the natural variety, as you would expect from the results of plastic surgery. That has invalidated all the conclusions they’ve drawn based on objective biological measurements.

 

[aussie_jaz]

Because of the obvious fact that the question assumes culpability, exactly like, “When will you stop beating your wife?” (Or, “How Long Have You been Beating Your Wife?”)

Therefore, those who do not despise must first defend the fact that they do not. And their defenses inevitably invoke arguments from the other side as to how we supposedly don’t appreciate How Much You Suffer – which supposedly in itself is a form of “despising.”

it is a question aimed at those commiting the action … despising … is it that hard for you to look at your own actions/behaviours and give an explanation on those actions/behaviours and not divert it back towards those topics discussed on other forums about our side of the condition?
why do YOU show hatred and intolerance in YOUR actions.
can you please remind me what the 2nd of the two greatest commandments jesus spoke of were? i thought it was LOVE your neighbour as yourself.to my understanding love is the opposite to despise.
now can you please answer why YOU despise transex PEOPLE ?

 

[Elizabeth502]

it is a question aimed at those commiting the action … despising … is it that hard for you to look at your own actions/behaviours and give an explanation on those actions/behaviours and not divert it back towards those topics discussed on other forums about our side of the condition?
why do YOU show hatred and intolerance in YOUR actions.
can you please remind me what the 2nd of the two greatest commandments jesus spoke of were? i thought it was LOVE your neighbour as yourself.to my understanding love is the opposite to despise.
now can you please answer why YOU despise transex PEOPLE ?

I’ve shown no hatred. In fact, had you bothered to read my posts on these and other (similar) threads you would have read often compassion, sometimes frustration, sometimes disagreement, but never hatred.

This forum forbids the insulting of posters and the replacement of issues with the criticism of persons.

 

[aussie_jaz]

I’ve shown no hatred. In fact, had you bothered to read my posts on these and other (similar) threads you would have read often compassion, sometimes frustration, sometimes disagreement, but never hatred.

This forum forbids the insulting of posters and the replacement of issues with the criticism of persons.

ok fair enough you havent shown hatred yourself . you have ,though, shown intolerance and defended other people who have shown hatred…to me that is just as bad.

 

[Elizabeth502]

ok fair enough you havent shown hatred yourself . you have ,though, shown intolerance and defended other people who have shown hatred…to me that is just as bad.

I have shown no intolerance, nor defended any hatred. In fact, again had you bothered to read carefully my replies, you would see that I indicate that what the OP and like-minded friends seek, may not be adequately and most tolerantly addressed on this particular messageboard, but in other locales. It is difficult for anyone to get sufficient, effective acceptance on any messageboard, let alone for someone with a relatively rare and certainly non-traiditional identity on a traditionally oriented and largely conservative forum.

I have also mentioned more than once that the only Love that matters has been offered and spilled for transsexuls and non-transsexuals, and it is a love available to all of us if we believe and approach it. That’s not “intolerance” or “hatred.”

I understand the angst of needing and wanting acceptance. I just disagree that opening a thread on a messageboard, accusing anonymous others of “despising” them, is the way either to get accepted, or to inform. Support groups in flesh and blood at least allow a person to be known as a more whole human being and to be more fully understood. And would you walk into a live support group and immediately accuse people of “despising” you, “hating” you, and being “intolerant” – people you didn’t even know and whose hearts you cannot read?

I think the answer to that question is obvious.

 

[AndyF]

Zoe Brain:

Thanks for the information.

My first and last statement implies my openness to decisions made on a closely monitored scientific bases. Whatever the consensus that is arrived at by the medical profession I concur with, this in keeping with scripture, provided the cases aren’t ones where they are dealing with a request for a behavioural cosmetic. I would say that an ideal group of professionals has decision makers should include those of clergy and the psychiatric community.

I think I was saying that there is a valid concern for abuse. It is common knowledge that a good portion of these operations are now being done on a “can pay” bases. None of this is hidden and the tabloids and headlines make a field day of them.

I have seen on the media many interviews with these people who are clearly unhappy with the effect, not the result of the operations. They remain locked into their altered physical state. Here satan reveals the ruse he played for so long on them.

But I was unclear on how the influential process summates to this one wrong decision. The mature individuals who have considered this are likely to be at the final will weakened stages of accepting the identity transference, and is the culmination of compound sin traceable to that one decision of seemingly innocent experimentation decades ago. At this point he feels there seems to be no hope but to make that leap from the gender they emulate once and for all and have the opportunity to switch from role playing. (Of course the real remedy is kept from them as much as possible).

Again I stress this is for the case in which it applies. There very well could be a senior generation where they were candidates for the medical solution but the science was experimental or socially taboo at that time and they now find themselves ready for the change. Here we could be talking about the same thing. A number of legitimate scenerios fit.

A close study of every case needs to be made beforehand.

Andy

 

[aspawloski4th]

I have shown no intolerance, nor defended any hatred. In fact, again had you bothered to read carefully my replies, you would see that I indicate that what the OP and like-minded friends seek, may not be adequately and most tolerantly addressed on this particular messageboard, but in other locales. It is difficult for anyone to get sufficient, effective acceptance on any messageboard, let alone for someone with a relatively rare and certainly non-traiditional identity on a traditionally oriented and largely conservative forum.

I have also mentioned more than once that the only Love that matters has been offered and spilled for transsexuls and non-transsexuals, and it is a love available to all of us if we believe and approach it. That’s not “intolerance” or “hatred.”

I understand the angst of needing and wanting acceptance. I just disagree that opening a thread on a messageboard, accusing anonymous others of “despising” them, is the way either to get accepted, or to inform. Support groups in flesh and blood at least allow a person to be known as a more whole human being and to be more fully understood. And would you walk into a live support group and immediately accuse people of “despising” you, “hating” you, and being “intolerant” – people you didn’t even know and whose hearts you cannot read?

I think the answer to that question is obvious.

FYI I do belong to a support group, albeit it is an hours drive away. When my transition goes further and I look more and more female Im getting a feel for what I am oing to have to deal with from other Catholic when I do things like attend Mass. While most comments and questions have been of a benign nature at the church I belong to. I have also gotten a few not so nice comments on my hair. Yes it is being grown out andis shaped in a bob/pageboy like cut. This makes it much easier to do my hair feminine when I go out as my “real” self.

 

[hyflyer64]

Zoe Brain:

Thanks for the information.

My first and last statement implies my openness to decisions made on a closely monitored scientific bases. Whatever the consensus that is arrived at by the medical profession I concur with, this in keeping with scripture, provided the cases aren’t ones where they are dealing with a request for a behavioural cosmetic. I would say that an ideal group of professionals has decision makers should include those of clergy and the psychiatric community.

I think I was saying that there is a valid concern for abuse. It is common knowledge that a good portion of these operations are now being done on a “can pay” bases. None of this is hidden and the tabloids and headlines make a field day of them.

I have seen on the media many interviews with these people who are clearly unhappy with the effect, not the result of the operations. They remain locked into their altered physical state. Here satan reveals the ruse he played for so long on them.

But I was unclear on how the influential process summates to this one wrong decision. The mature individuals who have considered this are likely to be at the final will weakened stages of accepting the identity transference, and is the culmination of compound sin traceable to that one decision of seemingly innocent experimentation decades ago. At this point he feels there seems to be no hope but to make that leap from the gender they emulate once and for all and have the opportunity to switch from role playing. (Of course the real remedy is kept from them as much as possible).

Again I stress this is for the case in which it applies. There very well could be a senior generation where they were candidates for the medical solution but the science was experimental or socially taboo at that time and they now find themselves ready for the change. Here we could be talking about the same thing. A number of legitimate scenerios fit.

A close study of every case needs to be made beforehand.

Andy

Andy,
If there is money to be made, be assured that there is someone out there that is more than willing to cut corners and circumvent established rules and procedures. And, are there those that are willing and able to take advantage of that??? Heavens yes!!! We have people in the sex industry, that are willing to do just about anything… Need I say more.
However, the majority of ethical doctors, who perform SRS, follow the standards of care established for treating TS people and they do a heck of a good job. Are there some that slip through and get surgery when they probably shouldn’t have?? Of course> The system is no perfect. You’re dealing with people and people are not perfect, consequently you wind up with an imperfect system.
The Church is presently looking at screening candidates for the priesthood To eliminate those that may…??? Are we still going to wind up with a priest that likes little boys??? I have no doubt that we will. Unfortunately!!

The difference is that the TS person is doing unto oneself. The other is doing unto another.

I had my surgery done in Thailand. It is comon practice for sexworkers to have what amounts to only a penectomy and orchiectomy. No neo-vagina. Now to most western Christians, this is like really, totally sinfull!! But… is it really… for that person They are not Christian. They do not have the same moral code that we have. Is not a sin, doing something that you know is sinful?? In this country, a lot of people view public nudity as a sin, however, in many other countries it’s not a big deal and is not sinful.

I will assure you that close studies are made of each case. And hun, stop watching Jerry Springer. I think it’s a SIN for anyone to participate in and even watch that show. It’s absolutely un-Christian and panders to the lowest common denominator.

Also, reading the last part of your post makes me think that you may have read or are in some way familiar with the writings of J.Michael Bailey and/or Ray Blanchard.

 

[aussie_jaz]

I have shown no intolerance, nor defended any hatred. In fact, again had you bothered to read carefully my replies, you would see that I indicate that what the OP and like-minded friends seek, may not be adequately and most tolerantly addressed on this particular messageboard, but in other locales. It is difficult for anyone to get sufficient, effective acceptance on any messageboard, let alone for someone with a relatively rare and certainly non-traiditional identity on a traditionally oriented and largely conservative forum.

I have also mentioned more than once that the only Love that matters has been offered and spilled for transsexuls and non-transsexuals, and it is a love available to all of us if we believe and approach it. That’s not “intolerance” or “hatred.”

I understand the angst of needing and wanting acceptance. I just disagree that opening a thread on a messageboard, accusing anonymous others of “despising” them, is the way either to get accepted, or to inform. Support groups in flesh and blood at least allow a person to be known as a more whole human being and to be more fully understood. And would you walk into a live support group and immediately accuse people of “despising” you, “hating” you, and being “intolerant” – people you didn’t even know and whose hearts you cannot read?

I think the answer to that question is obvious.

im not here for personal acceptance.i have that in my life.i just believe that the way this whole issue is treated by the majority of christians is very unchristian and any change in anybodys view or treatment of the condition and understanding of it in a positive way is a step forward.it is time for the barriers of intolerance and hatred to begin to be broken so christianity doesnt lose any more souls because of those misguided barriers.
having said that why shouldnt somebody open a thread on this issue here? if people on this site can learn about the realities and can have their ways changed to a more christian way of treating the issue…it might be a small step but it is still a step in the right way

 

[AndyF]

Andy,
If there is money to be made, be assured that there is someone out there that is more than willing to cut corners and circumvent established rules …You’re dealing with people and people are not perfect, consequently you wind up with an imperfect system.

agree.

The Church is presently looking at screening candidates for the priesthood To eliminate those that may…??? . Are we still going to wind up with a priest that likes little boys??? I have no doubt that we will. Unfortunately!!

Sorry, I don’t understand your point and the connection between TS and pedophilia.

The difference is that the TS person is doing unto oneself.

From a religious perspective, the body is God’s temple on earth. We are to respect
it for this reason, so it is possible to sin with one’s own body. We can say then consciously there are legitimate and illegitimate sex changes. Masturbation is another
but always intrinsically evil. I’m not pressing a particular point but just voicing the Church’s stance.

I would assume that one who has a decision like this to make would have considered if all other options which God provides has been taken. For instance the Blessed Mother is known to cause some miraculous effects for those who show her devotion. If nothing else, a lessening of the effects is noted and signs like these are her way of indicating to the victim that the cause is of evil origin, not physical or psychological, with no need for drastic measures. The message becomes clear, “your on the right track.”.

It is comon practice for sexworkers to have what amounts to only a penectomy and orchiectomy.

Not familiar with this occupation. However, my college provides for courses of a less painful and ahemm… demanding nature.

Is not a sin, doing something that you know is sinful??

All definitions of what is sinful comes from God. And usually he doesn’t distinguish between peoples who can and can’t sin. Defining which people can be excused from sin is something man has taken upon himself without God’s permission. It would seem man will try any futile thing to get out of responsibility.

In this country, a lot of people view public nudity as a sin, however, in many other countries it’s not a big deal and is not sinful.

What we consider sinful won’t make a hoot of difference at judgement day.

And hun, stop watching Jerry Springer. I think it’s a SIN for anyone to participate in and even watch that show. It’s absolutely un-Christian and panders to the lowest common denominator.

Agree. He’s gone to sensationalism and sleaze from a very interesting show. A bad decision in my book.

Also, reading the last part of your post makes me think that you may have read…

Nope, totally my take.

Andy

 

[pathia]

I think the question of the OP is why does the world do what it does to folks like us.

I’ve been kicked out of multiple homeless shelters, YES catholic run ones even, because they didn’t want me using either bathroom or shower/changing room

I’ve been assaulted, I’ve had someone try to rape me, the police didn’t care, they did nothing, absolutely nothing. They laughed at me, they scorned me, threatened to arrest me for prostitution.

I have over twenty friends that committed suicide in their younger years, not a one had even managed to get past college age.

I have SIX that have been murdered for their ‘lifestyle’. The police only bothered to even investigate 1 or 2 of them. The one that was caught, got something like 5years for manslaughter by using a ‘panic’ defense despite the fact the person was open about their transsexuality.

These are not normal things to have in one lifetime, let alone someone who is only just turning 29. They’re simply not. It’s simply reprehensible. No one cares, no one really cares. Sure, they will flock in and gasp at how horrible it is, how awful it must be, but then nothing happens. Nothing changes.

Nothing ever changes. I have been absent from these forums because I am preparing to leave the United States. I simply can’t take it anymore, this country is completely inhospitable to me. I am going to have to flee as a refuge, almost quite literally. That is how bad it is for those of us with this ‘cross’ in this country.

 

[hyflyer64]

agree.
Hi Andy,

Sorry, I don’t understand your point and the connection between TS and pedophilia.

My connection was with man made systems, not TS and pedophilia. There is a system of guidelines for the treatment of TS individuals but it can be circumvented as would be the case with The Church implementing a screening process for priesthood candidates.
From a religious perspective, the body is God’s temple on earth. We are to respect
it for this reason, so it is possible to sin with one’s own body. We can say then consciously there are legitimate and illegitimate sex changes. Masturbation is another
but always intrinsically evil. I’m not pressing a particular point but just voicing the Church’s stance.

I would assume that one who has a decision like this to make would have considered if all other options which God provides has been taken. For instance the Blessed Mother is known to cause some miraculous effects for those who show her devotion. If nothing else, a lessening of the effects is noted and signs like these are her way of indicating to the victim that the cause is of evil origin, not physical or psychological, with no need for drastic measures. The message becomes clear, “your on the right track.”.

Well … a lot of us have prayed … maybe not enough??? Please let me know if you find someone that has and has been able to circumvent this with prayer. With a lot of similar things, some people are affected more than others and some can live a somewhat decent life without having to resort to SRS. Those who have extreem TS … well, we have a choice and fortunately most of us choose to live.
Not familiar with this occupation. However, my college provides for courses of a less painful and ahemm… demanding nature.

All definitions of what is sinful comes from God. And usually he doesn’t distinguish between peoples who can and can’t sin. Defining which people can be excused from sin is something man has taken upon himself without God’s permission. It would seem man will try any futile thing to get out of responsibility.

Oh hun, you are so mistaken here. Please do some homework. It was sinful to eat meat on Fridays when was younger. Do you know why??? Because the Italian fisherman needed a bigger market. That was the bottom line. F(*&&^^& money!! I could go on and on.
Along these lines, it’s SINFULL for a woman to get breast augmentation!? To get liposuction!? Plastic surgery!? Facial dermabration!?
A lot of things that were once considered sinful are no longer so. A sin is committed when you belive that a certain act is sinful and you still commit that act. A lot of so called sins are really in the mind of man! Through our thought process we make them so.
Some people believe that the paintings on the ceiling of the Sisteen Chapel ( sp?) are sinful. Do you?? Some people viewing them would find them very erotic.
Is killing someone in the name of GOD not a sin?? Apparently they did not think so in the Ols Testament and also in the new. The Crusades were in the name of GOD and thousands of inocent souls were murdered… The Church was in support.
Think on it.
What is sin and what isn’t.
What we consider sinful won’t make a hoot of difference at judgement day.

See above.

Agree. He’s gone to sensationalism and sleaze from a very interesting show. A bad decision in my book.

Nope, totally my take.

Andy

 

[RedGecko]

I have been absent from these forums because I am preparing to leave the United States. I simply can’t take it anymore, this country is completely inhospitable to me. I am going to have to flee as a refuge, almost quite literally. That is how bad it is for those of us with this ‘cross’ in this country.

Pathia, I am so sorry that you, and your friends, have been so badly mistreated. Christians should have helped you, rather than oppress or ignore you.

But where are you going? What country or countries have enlightened attitudes which we might emulate?