Transsexualism, why is it so dispised

[aussie_jaz]

After reading more, both in these posts and elsewhere, I’m beginning to think that TG being associated with homoactivism is NOT a good thing.

Homoactivists want to undermine and reorder society; saying “accept us and our perversions or else!”. Intersexed and transgendered folks seem to want and need something entirely different.

I think that there needs to be some serious education in this area; to split the association of TG away from sexual and social deviance, if possible. We are all sinners! and yet, I think the fear and non-acceptance that you have experienced at various parishes and church communities is a result of folks mistakenly associating your condition with the scandal of living in openly and defiantly in sin. You’re no different than the rest of us sinners, but what you are is visible and so folks can jump to conclusions.

I don’t know if what I’ve written makes any sense here, but I really feel that there would be a different attitude if folks knew more.

and TS should also be recognised as a seperate situation to TG.

 

[magdelaine]

and TS should also be recognised as a seperate situation to TG.

Ah poo… Would you mind explaining to me what the difference is again?

 

[aussie_jaz]

Ah poo… Would you mind explaining to me what the difference is again?

are you suggesting that those who crossdress for reasons including employment,sexual gratification and other reasons and where their true identity is the same as their physical sex and have no need nor want to change their appearance for that reason (excepting those that change for reason of sex employment)as the same as the TS community where the medical treatment is sought for addressing the need to correct the mistake of nature and change the physical appearance to match the true gender identity.
it is quite a difference and the confusion based on the current blurred view of the two does cause a lot of unnecessary problems out of that ignorance

 

[aspawloski4th]

are you suggesting that those who crossdress for reasons including employment,sexual gratification and other reasons and where their true identity is the same as their physical sex and have no need nor want to change their appearance for that reason (excepting those that change for reason of sex employment)as the same as the TS community where the medical treatment is sought for addressing the need to correct the mistake of nature and change the physical appearance to match the true gender identity.
it is quite a difference and the confusion based on the current blurred view of the two does cause a lot of unnecessary problems out of that ignorance

Some ignorant people think the reason for tranhsitioning is to attract men because one is gay. I’m so sick and tired of that I could nearly throwup. People that insist on that with me get told to read up on transsexualism. When they don’t do as I sugest and persist with that idiea , I tell them to talk to the hand. Becuase with that type of mind set what you are saying is going in one ear and out the other.

 

[Zoe_Brain]

After reading more, both in these posts and elsewhere, I’m beginning to think that TG being associated with homoactivism is NOT a good thing.

Maybe not, but we don’t get a say in it, do we?

Those who are pro-Gay but anti-Trans accuse us of “riding on their coat-tails”, of being parasites, not gay at all. Or alternately, of being insane for not merely accepting that we’re actually Gay, just fooling ourselves. Both consider us Traitors to the cause too, because we don’t try to break down the Gender binary, but go to incredible lengths to affirm it. they prefer not to think about the Intersexed.

Those who are anti-Gay and anti-Trans accuse us of being “ultra-homosexual”. The worst of the worst, seriously undermining the Gender binary (and this God’s natural Order) by our very existence. They prefer not to believe that the Intersexed even exist, or believe that they shouldn’t, if they do.

Neither party wishes to acknowledge that a third of us are gay, whichever way you look at it. If you think a transwoman is actually a mutilated man, then if she says she’s lesbian (as 1/3 do) she must be straight, not gay. She’s only gay if she says she’s straight.That would disprove the whole “Transsexuals are actually gay” meme, so both gays and their opponents have to ignore it.

Those who see transwomen as woman are confronted with the fact than 1/3 are lesbian, so are inextricably part of “GLB” - Gay/Lesbian/Bisexual.

And the other third may or may not be Gay, Straight, Bi, or Asexual, but they’re celibate, which contradicts the whole thesis that it’s all about sex, something everyone but transsexuals agree on. So this has to be ignored too - or they’d have to confront the fact that what transsexuals have been saying about themselves is actually true.

Once upon a time, 50 years ago, there used to be another group. Anti-Gay and pro-Trans. As early as 1955, Illinois allowed the change of Birth Certificates, with full marriage rights in the acquired gender. It was only in 1976 that the first legal challenges to this situation were mounted, coinciding with the Gay movement for acceptance, and as a backlash to it. Now this faction is effectively extinct. I know of no politico-religious group that is both Anti-Gay and pro-Trans - with one exception. The Iranian regime, where transsexuality is accepted, but being gay is a capital offence. They force gays to get mutilated or die, effectively surgically creating transsexuals in the process while curing those who were transsexual in the first place. As long as they’re straight. Lesbian transsexual women have to continue to pretend they’re male.

New Hampshire just passed a vote overwhelmingly in favour of gay marriage. They’ve had employment protection for gays for over 10 years now. But on the same day, they voted even more overwhelmingly against extending any protection to transsexuals.

That would tend to undermine what was said here:

I think that there needs to be some serious education in this area; to split the association of TG away from sexual and social deviance, if possible. We are all sinners! and yet, I think the fear and non-acceptance that you have experienced at various parishes and church communities is a result of folks mistakenly associating your condition with the scandal of living in openly and defiantly in sin.

Some, yes. But as the New Hampshire vote showed, many can be quite accepting of Gays, even of Gay Marriage, yet consider us unworthy of equal human rights.

So the reason why Transsexual people are associated with Gays is simple: it’s only the pro-Gay, pro-Trans movements that aren’t against us. The Evil “GLBT Activists”. They are our only chance of retaining the human rights we have, let alone getting new ones. Our situation there is actually worse than it was 50 years ago. Illinois recently “tightened up” its policy, so only surgery performed in the USA “counted”. As 90% have to go overseas as they can’t afford either the poor results of the second- or third-rate US surgery, and its far higher cost (NOT covered by insurance… and remember 50% of us live below the poverty line…) this effectively overturned the 1955 legislation. There’s a court case about this at this very moment, with all religious groups vying to see who can be the most outspoken in supporting the withdrawal of this right.

One of the most vehement opponents of Trans rights is the Thomas More legal centre. They routinely “bear false witness” I’m afraid, as they see Trans as being ultra-homosexuals, and consider no enormity unjustified if it will see the perverts cast down.

In Hamtramck, Michigan, they even entered an Unholy Alliance with fundamentalist Muslim Imams just to accomplish their aim. Catholic Priests and Imams, united in eucumenical hatred of the UnGodly. They won that battle too, causing the repeal of legislation that was saving some lives.

 

[magdelaine]

are you suggesting that those who crossdress for reasons including employment,sexual gratification and other reasons and where their true identity is the same as their physical sex and have no need nor want to change their appearance for that reason (excepting those that change for reason of sex employment)as the same as the TS community where the medical treatment is sought for addressing the need to correct the mistake of nature and change the physical appearance to match the true gender identity.
it is quite a difference and the confusion based on the current blurred view of the two does cause a lot of unnecessary problems out of that ignorance

I’m sorry, I wasn’t being sarcastic. I don’t understand the difference…although a 30 sec. google search could probably clear it up.

 

[Elizabeth502]

Elizabeth,I would think that you and others who post on CAF regularly, have no problem expressing your views with others in your parish. This is where “social justice” comes in. If “you” ( as apposed to “us” ) are expressing “your opinions” and not facts, then “you” are creating an injustice.
Have you ever played the game where a group of people gather and one person wispers a statement to another and that person to another and on and on and then you compare the original to what the last person states?? Usually the statement is totally distorted
Start with ‘it should be condemned’ and it ends up ‘it is condemned and they are all going straight to hell.’
Now take an issue where the majority of people have an opinion based on “tabloids” and sensationalized headlines and tv programs. “You” add your opinion and they see it as reinforcing what they read or saw.

“Social justice”, and Christ’s message of love from the Father, requires you to set the record straight. To point out that there are “extreme cases” and that we are full members, in good standing, in The Church.
If “you” are in a position where people do look to “you” for some level of guidance, I would think that “your” opinion should be kept to youselves.!?

Gosh, I hope this makes sense!?

Rachel

No. You frankly make absolutely no sense to me. You merely seem to reinforce my impression that you are accusing me of something insidious I have not done and have no intention of doing, and/or are suggesting that I and/or others become responsible for disseminating personal opinions of your own. This is linked to a point I earlier made, about the attempt to make others responsible. If it’s about social suffering, I’m not responsible, as I’ve never disseminated such prejudice. If it’s about personal suffering, I’m not God. If it’s about social or political advocacy, the best advocates are the members of that group.

My life is already consumed with advocacies of other just causes, at least as hearbreaking.

 

[magdelaine]

That would tend to undermine what was said here:Some, yes. But as the New Hampshire vote showed, many can be quite accepting of Gays, even of Gay Marriage, yet consider us unworthy of equal human rights.

This is my point. The only way that this can happen is because of a fundamental misunderstanding of the condition/plight.

Interesting about the Thomas Moore society. I will have to research that further; I have had high esteem of their work in the past.

 

[magdelaine]

I haven’t been able to find the Thomas More references, so if you have some advice on where to look, I would appreciate it.

Ok, so…what I’ve been thinking…is that I don’t think about my gender. What I look like. Instead, my gender is intrinsically linked to my uterus, my experience with pregnancy. So I can’t help but think that this person is incredibly confused.

This person is not a good example for TS; how can you want to look like a man and yet still BE a woman in the most important way that matters?

 

[Zoe_Brain]

This person is not a good example for TS; how can you want to look like a man and yet still BE a woman in the most important way that matters?

here’s a segment of an online conversation that may explain it.

I must say, Zoe, you definitely had me cracking up (with you not at you). I could here the humor even as I was reading. And too, you are indeed very blessed. You have endured and come out victorious in your battles. It has been my pleasure to share my opinions and read your responses. By the way, my name is Alesia and I am no Rocket Scientist…lol. In fact, my greatest accomplishment is motherhood for which I am extremely proud.

Alesia - a few tears on the keyboard I’m afraid - I would have traded all my life’s experiences, all the technical accomplishments I’ve ever had, the Engineering Excellence Awards…. if I could have been a mother like you.

I got a triple dose of “maternal instinct” in my peculiar neurology, you see.

But I must count my blessings, because I did get second prize. I’m the parent of my son, even if I didn’t give birth to him as I should have.

I guess that’s why these “pregnant man” stories resonate. They’re mirror-images of my own situation, and although I don’t understand men at all, I can understand how a guy would do anything, anything at all, to become a father. Or as close as he could get to that.

My son exists. The hows and wherefores don’t matter, do they? So why am I crying? I should consider all the other women who can’t bear children for medical reasons, and they don’t even get a shot at second prize either. My heart goes out to them.

I had no monthly curse. No cramps. No morning sickness. No backache. No labour, No episiotemy scissors. No stretchmarks. I should be grateful, shouldn’t I? Even if it does cause certain complications. “So what is your relationship to Andrew?”

“Er, um, I’m actually his biological father… it’s complicated….”

Ah well. Motherhood was not my lot in life. It should have been though. C’est la vie.

Thanks so much for telling me this. I guess the grass is always greener, right? And what does it matter as long as we have the children, to love, to cherish, to protect, and sometimes to get exasperated with! And to sing an Honest Lullaby to.

Hugs again, and another God Bless,
Zoe

Thomas Beattie wanted to be a Dad.The Father of his child. The closest he could come was to be his biological mother instead.

I… well you know what I wanted. And what I had to settle for.

 

[Zoe_Brain]

I haven’t been able to find the Thomas More references, so if you have some advice on where to look, I would appreciate it.

Their website - try here for their take on Hamtramck

TMLC Agrees to Help Citizen’s Group Overturn City Ordinance Criminalizing Religous

July 31, 2008

ANN ARBOR, MI – The Thomas More Law Center today announced that it will act as legal counsel for a coalition of citizens, businesses, and religions in Hamtramck, Michigan seeking to overturn an ordinance enacted by the City Counsel in June, which gives special privileges to homosexuals and so-called “transgendered” individuals. The citizen’s group is called, “Hamtramck Citizens Opposing `Special Rights’ Discrimination.”

The challenged ordinance makes it legal for men who perceive themselves as women to use women’s bathrooms in any school, business or public facility. In classic Orwellian doublespeak, the ordinance defines such behavior as “Natural Rights of Hamtramck Residents.”

Richard Thompson, President and Chief Counsel of the Thomas More Law Center stated, “Radical homosexual activists have taken over city councils like Hamtramck all across the nation. These ordinances end up being used to bully and prosecute Christians who faithfully practice their religion.”

Continued Thompson, Hamtramck’s draconian provisions for investigation, prosecution and civil actions with treble damages, with attorney’s fees, to force acceptance of this bizarre behavior would make any Communist regime envious.”
…
Contrary to the deceptive title of the ordinance and assurances of the city council and their lawyer, this ordinance was specifically enacted to give special privileges to homosexuals and so-called “transgendered.” The State of Michigan and the County government already cover, through various Civil Rights Acts, every other group identified in the ordinance besides the homosexuals and so-called “transgendered.” In effect, this ordinance will help these two groups discriminate against faithful Christians and others that find the acts of homosexuals and so-called “transgenders” antithetical to their faith, their right to practice their faith, and their free speech rights to pronounce their objections to these deviant lifestyle choices.

See what I mean?

The “special privileges” were to have exactly the same rights as Catholics. A business cannot fire someone merely for being Catholic. A restaurant cannot put up a sign saying "Catholics not served here’. A real estate office cannot advertise saying “Apartment to let - no Catholics need apply”.

The ordinance had added “sexual orientation and gender identity” along with the usual race, creed, colour, national origin etc as prohibited causes for discrimination in providing goods, services, and employment. That was it. 4 words in all.

Now as the result of the TMLC’s actions, it is perfectly legal to fire someone for being Transsexual in Hamtramck. That happens a lot, by the way, in fact it’s happened to over half of all TS people in the USA. A restaurant can put up a sign saying "Transsexuals not served here’ and we have no legal recourse. Real estate offices can, and often do, advertise saying “Apartment to let - no Transsexuals need apply”.

Some more from the TMLC:

Some of the more disturbing aspects of the ordinance include:

· Excessive entanglement by the city in internal aspects of religious organizations

· Men being allowed to use women’s restroom facilities and other facilities specifically designated for women. To even question a man on the propriety of them using the women’s facilities—whether dressed as a women or not—could be grounds for a discrimination complaint, $500 fine for each day this occurs, and a civil lawsuit.

· Men dressed as women teaching your grade school children

· Civil litigation to force businesses, schools, and even religions to conform and accept these deviant lifestyle choices

The Thomas More Law Center defends and promotes the religious freedom of Christians, time-honored family values, and the sanctity of human life through litigation, education, and related activities. It does not charge for its services. The Law Center is supported by contributions from individuals, corporations and foundations, and is recognized by the IRS as a section 501(c)(3) organization.

A lot of us are teachers. Until we get “outed”, our medical history known, then people like this see we get what’s coming to us.

The “bathroom” stuff is just a lie. Similar legislation has been in force in 12 states and over 100 other jurisdictions, and such an interpretation has never been put on the law anywhere. Not once in the 33 years that it’s been in effect in some places, and that now cover 38% of the US population. There’s been dozens of legal opinions contradicting the TMLC lie, from State Attorneys-general to judges and individual lawyers. But it makes very effective Propaganda.

Now please look at the video that they helped the Gainesville “Citizens for Good Public Policy” produce.

You can imagine the violence that’s been visited on TS people as the result.

I know you’ll find this difficult to believe. But those words come from their own website.

These words come from a news article before the referendum that repealed the law:

If put into law, the ordinance would protect Hamtramck residents from discrimination in areas including housing, employment and access to city services. The ordinance includes wording that would make illegal discrimination based on sexual orientation, gender identity and gender expression.

Opposition to the ordinance, which includes Hamtramck City Councilmembers Kathy Gordon and Abdul Algazali, has also been mounting. Recently, local Catholic Priest Rev. Andy Wesley, pastor of Transfiguration Catholic Parish and Academy in Detroit and also of St. Ladislaus Church in Hamtramck has joined the local Islamic Imam in fighting the ordinance. Wesley expressed his position to the Hamtramck Knights of Columbus group, who have since voiced their support of overturning the ordinance.

Again, we ask the question, Why?

 

[Zoe_Brain]

From “Americans for Truth”

Nearly a dozen religious leaders in the City of Hamtramck and a nationally prominent lawyer will speak at a campaign kick-off rally for the group Hamtramck Citizens Voting NO to `Special Rights’ Discrimination.

The rally will be held Sunday, Oct. 12th, from 5 to 6:30 p.m. at the Knights of Columbus Hall, 9632 Conant St. Admission is free.

The speakers will all urge a NO vote on the Nov. 4 referendum concerning the city’s new ordinance that provides special protection to people based on sexual identity, sexual orientation and sexual behavior.
The ordinance provides no new rights for anyone except for homosexuals, as all other rights are covered by state and federal law.

Note the deliberate substitution for “gender identity” etc.And the fact that it’s at the Knights of Columbus Hall. So you’d expect the majority of speakers to be Catholic, right?

The keynote speaker will be Brian Rooney, attorney for the Thomas More Law Center and legal expert on discriminatory “gay rights” legislation.

That’s one.

Religious leaders (the imams represent various ethnic communities – Yemeni, Bosnian and Bengali}:

• Rev. Andrew Wesley, pastor of St. Ladislaus Church and co-chair of the group Hamtramck Citizens Voting NO.

That’s two - and that’s it for the catholic representation. Now for the Imams.

• Najim A. Quddus, imam of the Al Islah Islamic Center in Hamtramck.

• Masud Khan, president of the Al Islah Islamic Center.
…
• Abdul Latif Azom, imam of Al Falah mosque.

• Abdul Salam, imam of Masjid Un Nur mosque.

• Adbo Zindani, secretary of Eiman Islamic Complex.

• Amin Alwagah, representing Algalazali mosque.

• Saleh Algahaim, president of Eiman Islamic Complex.

• Dzenan Kalanac, imam of Bosnia Islamic Center.

• Mohammed Shehab Khan, imam Baitul Islam mosque

See what I mean about an “Unholy Alliance”? And in the Knights of Columbus Hall, remember.

 

[Zoe_Brain]

Now please look at the video that they helped the Gainesville “Citizens for Good Public Policy” produce.

Sorry, I’ve just fixed the link. View it and weep.

 

[magdelaine]

Thanks for all this Zoe. I will read and think on these things. About mother/fatherhood, I’m curious, does your child call you mom or dad? Do you see yourself as a father figure, a mother figure, or something else?

I guess what I have a problem with in what Thomas Beattie did/is doing is that, factually, he’s presenting a lie to his children. He’s not a male. He actually gave birth to these children. Your case is a little more difficult to define biologically, but I’ll bet you are honest with your child about those definitions. The fact is, your child is growing up with her own biological mother and father. Beattie’s child will never know her biological father. I understand feeling ambiguous or misplaced in your gender, but what is this need for alteration? Or the need to force others to call what would, without medical intervention, be a woman a man? Or the need for a man to use a woman’s restroom?

I’m of course speaking from my own prejudices against alteration. I don’t think cosmetic surgery is a good idea for anyone, and I am a “leave well enough alone” “hands off” kind of person when it comes to it. Why I pitched a hissy fit and refused to have my sons circumcised; they were perfect just the way they are. I would have had the same reaction if one of them had been born intersexed, by the way.

Anyway, again thanks, I need to time to absorb everything.

 

[pathia]

. I understand feeling ambiguous or misplaced in your gender, but what is this need for alteration? Or the need to force others to call what would, without medical intervention, be a woman a man? Or the need for a man to use a woman’s restroom?

Because it’s the only way the pain stops, the only way the insanity stops, the only way the depression stops. The feeling of wrongness of one’s body is unending, unceasing, it never stops, cannot be suppressed. Cannot be medicated away (I know I tried) cannot be therapy’d away (I know I tried). It cannot be prayed away, I tried that too. It is omnipresent, consuming, devours all joy in one’s life.

It is very hard to explain to someone on the outside, but there is a sense of wrongness about your body so much that one will take to trying to remedy the situation oneself. I am already covered in scars from self-mutilation episodes, I tend to lose my mind, sink back into some other layer of reality and don’t really realize what is happening to me until I come to again, covered in blood.

Granted I am an extreme case, but still, words really fail me to explain what we feel.

 

[magdelaine]

Because it’s the only way the pain stops, the only way the insanity stops, the only way the depression stops. The feeling of wrongness of one’s body is unending, unceasing, it never stops, cannot be suppressed. Cannot be medicated away (I know I tried) cannot be therapy’d away (I know I tried). It cannot be prayed away, I tried that too. It is omnipresent, consuming, devours all joy in one’s life.

It is very hard to explain to someone on the outside, but there is a sense of wrongness about your body so much that one will take to trying to remedy the situation oneself. I am already covered in scars from self-mutilation episodes, I tend to lose my mind, sink back into some other layer of reality and don’t really realize what is happening to me until I come to again, covered in blood.

Granted I am an extreme case, but still, words really fail me to explain what we feel.

Does it really stop, though? I mean, REALLY? It’s hard for me to understand this being anything but a psychological condition that is hyperfocused on externals (i.e. what you look like rather that who you are, a beloved of God). I mean your dysphoria is based on gender, but didn’t Michael Jackson suffer from a kind of “white person” dysphoria? You’d think so in seeing his physical changes. It seems to me that no surgery can fix the feeling of “wrongness”; the only path to peace and freedom is acceptance of self, the whole person, just the way you are. I’m really trying to understand…

The closest I can come to that is my recent experience with weight. After my 4th baby (and now that I’m older) I ended my last pregnancy about 50lbs overweight. For the first time in my life, I really had to diet in order to lose what I had gained over the last 7 years. However, I didn’t realize how uncomfortable I felt in my overweight body until I had lost the last 10 pounds. I felt so liberated! Like I was finally “me” again.

So maybe that is a small smidgen of what you feel…but there is no diet that will get you “back to right”. But does alteration really accomplish that either?

 

[hyflyer64]

Does it really stop, though? I mean, REALLY? It’s hard for me to understand this being anything but a psychological condition that is hyperfocused on externals (i.e. what you look like rather that who you are, a beloved of God). I mean your dysphoria is based on gender, but didn’t Michael Jackson suffer from a kind of “white person” dysphoria? You’d think so in seeing his physical changes. It seems to me that no surgery can fix the feeling of “wrongness”; the only path to peace and freedom is acceptance of self, the whole person, just the way you are. I’m really trying to understand…

The closest I can come to that is my recent experience with weight. After my 4th baby (and now that I’m older) I ended my last pregnancy about 50lbs overweight. For the first time in my life, I really had to diet in order to lose what I had gained over the last 7 years. However, I didn’t realize how uncomfortable I felt in my overweight body until I had lost the last 10 pounds. I felt so liberated! Like I was finally “me” again.

So maybe that is a small smidgen of what you feel…but there is no diet that will get you “back to right”. But does alteration really accomplish that either?

Magdelaine, you have no idea!!! To finally “feel right” in mind and body.
I never “felt” like a woman. ( how is it to “feel” like a man or woman? ) I still don’t “feel” like a woman but I am Rachel and I’m no longer living a lie.
My journey has been very painfull. It seems at times that the last 5 years have been nothing but pain. The pain of slowly watching a 40+ year relationship die. The pain of never again sharing things with my spouse and more recently the pain of loneliness.
I’ve often thought that getting to where I am has not been worth the price Then…, even when I’m at my lowest point, I stop and think of the options I had!? I ask my self if I would want to go back!?
The answer is that is … I HAD to become a woman. No, I didn’t want to, but that’s who and what I am. And no I could not go back. I believe that I would die. I’m now very much at peace with who and what I am, unlike the almost 60 previous years.
All of us have issues and TS people have issues unrelated to being TS. Hormones and surgery will not “fix” those issues.
My psychiatrist found me to be one of the most well adjusted people that he had had in his office in a long time.
The media and people who go along with the likes of Paul McHugh, focus on those that are having difficulties and those that never should have undertaken this journey. Some do circumvent the standards of care, however thousands have been done things correctly.
Take a look at Lynn Conway’s page: ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TSsuccesses/TSsuccesses.html
Be forwarned that she is not a fan of the Catholic Church.
Rachel

 

[hyflyer64]

No. You frankly make absolutely no sense to me. You merely seem to reinforce my impression that you are accusing me of something insidious I have not done and have no intention of doing, and/or are suggesting that I and/or others become responsible for disseminating personal opinions of your own. This is linked to a point I earlier made, about the attempt to make others responsible. If it’s about social suffering, I’m not responsible, as I’ve never disseminated such prejudice. If it’s about personal suffering, I’m not God. If it’s about social or political advocacy, the best advocates are the members of that group.

My life is already consumed with advocacies of other just causes, at least as hearbreaking.

Hun, can I ask a couple straight questions and get a couple straight answers?? Please!
Are we in agreement that the Vatican, in it’s “secret” document to the bishops, made a point that in “extreme cases” SRS was morally acceptable??
Do you just want us to go away

Rachel

 

[Zoe_Brain]

Thanks for all this Zoe. I will read and think on these things. About mother/fatherhood, I’m curious, does your child call you mom or dad? Do you see yourself as a father figure, a mother figure, or something else?

Well, remember he got a ringside seat at age 3 to all the changes. I used to look male, and 3 months later, I looked female. I do some simple sleight-of-hand stage magic, he thought this was just a really clever trick.

He calls me “Zeddie”, or “Zo”. When hurt or frightened, “Daddy”. Sometimes, when we’re cuddling, he forgets and calls me “Mummy”. But usually, just “Zo” in social situations. It stops him having to explain stuff. Even at age 7, he’s learnt that most people either don’t understand, or more usually, just plain don’t believe him.

Like 5% of the couples here in Canberra, we appear to be just your normal, average, everyday pair of lesbians. Again, it stops us from having to explain stuff. The wedding rings we wear are taken as an affectation, as same-sex marriage is illegal here.

sigh Why does life have to be so complex?
Zoe

 

[pathia]

Does it really stop, though? I mean, REALLY? ?

Mine has stopped. The only time it becomes and issue is when others make it an issue. If I am in an environment where people don’t know, or don’t care, I never even think of it anymore. It is completely a non issue.