J
jean8
Guest
What did God do? God created man and woman.
The rest is created by man.
Pray about this, or get professional help.
jean
- Status
The rest is created by man.
Pray about this, or get professional help.
jean
M
magdelaine
Guest
This statement only proves that you didn’t read this thread.What did God do? God created man and woman.
The rest is created by man.
Pray about this, or get professional help.
jean
A
aussie_jaz
Guest
and what did nature do? nature made lots of mistakes to gods creations.What did God do? God created man and woman.
The rest is created by man.
Pray about this, or get professional help.
jean
so god showed some people the ways of helping those mistakes nature made to his creations by means of science and medicine.
praying is done over and over throughout childhood and adolescence asking why this has happened and please fix me before i wake up tomorrow…of course that doesnt occur …
so…
professional help is sought after and that is where the psychiatrists,endocrinologists and surgeons come into it…professional help.
Z
Zoe_Brain
Guest
As we’re sexual creatures, yes it does - but only consequentially, not primarily.
To believe that sex is the primary cause, you’d have to believe (in increasing order of absurdity):
*]That ultra-gay men would sacrifice their manhood just to have sex with straight men
*]That ultra-lesbians would have their breasts cut off just to have sex with straight women
*]That straight men would sacrifice their manhood just to have sex with lesbians
*]That straight women would have their breasts cut off just to have sex with gay men
Now many straight men and women might believe 1) or 2), but few would see 3) and 4) as being something they’d do themselves, or imagine anyone else doing. Gay men and lesbian women would have equal difficulty with 1) and 2), which is why so many see transsexuals as being “traitors to the cause”, not gay at all, but straight. Weird, but straight. And they refuse to believe that some TS people can be gay or lesbian.
When you put it.like that, the absurdities become obvious. Nonetheless, this is not an uncommon view, despite the contradictions. You can see that from some of the comments.
S
Sueliz
Guest
S
Sueliz
Guest
Zoe Brain:
**"Once upon a time, 50 years ago, there used to be another group. Anti-Gay and pro-Trans.
Illinois recently “tightened up” its policy, so only surgery performed in the USA “counted”. As 90% have to go overseas as they can’t afford either the poor results of the second- or third-rate US surgery, and its far higher cost…"**
Yes, there was a time when classic/true transsexuals had both a respect and a legitimacy the GLB did not enjoy. But thanks to the current trend of late transitioning trans activist, like Zoe and others, most of whom exist in so-called lesbian relationships, who can’t seem to speak of transsexuality without also including and associating the homosexual movement in the narrative, our legitimacy has been severely compromised in the interest of the GLBT construct. Those trans activists have, and are, succeeding in saturating the internet with the notion that the interests of the GLB is also the interest of the T. Transgender, in itself, includes every conceivable form of gender variant behaviour from the wierd transvestic fetish to classic/true transsexuals. It wasn’t always that way. But thanks again to the trans activists, transsexuality is now thrown in the same group as the casual weekend crossdresser and the homosexual male drag queen. Honestly, it’s disgusting and more frustrating than any of you can conceive to have one’s womanhood, via transitioning, diluted and colonized by the GLBT activists, essentially relegated to something less than female. Again, it wasn’t always that way, only in the past 10-15 years has it become that way…thanks to the libertine trans activists…the same trans activists that try to convince us that “men” can become pregnant or women can have male bits.
Zoe’s claim that “…90% [of US gender reassignment candidates] have to go overseas as they can’t afford either the poor results of the second- or third-rate US surgery…” is simply ridiculous. The United States is know for having some the best GRS surgeons in the world…Drs. Meltzer, Alter, Shrang (before he retired), and Biber (before he retired) are reknown for their technique and results. Dr. Toby Meltzer was the first to devise the current state-of-the-art surgical technique that is now used by virtually every GRS surgeon on the planet. Many go to Drs.Menard and Brassard, in Montreal, Canada who are also very good and only slightly less expensive than the American surgeons. These surgeons alone have performed thousands and thousands of gender reassignment with but a mere fraction of the complications encountered with overseas surgeons.
It’s true that many here in the States go overseas, specifically to Thailand, to have their GRS but it is *not *because of the quality of United States and Canadian surgeon’s technique. In the US and Canada there are perhaps, at most, a dozen GRS surgeons, all of whom strictly follow the HBIGDA (WPATH) Standards of Care, a strict medical protocol that must be followed prior to gender reassignment surgery; the majority of gender reassignments in the US and Canda are performed by just five surgeons, and they are very, very good at what they do. In Thailand alone, there are literally *hundreds *of GRS surgeons…some of which charge as little as a few hundred dollars for the procedure. The complication rate for these “bargain sex changes” is exponentially high when compared to rate of the United States and Canadian doctors. There are a few Thai surgeons who have proven themselves competent; their fees, though at one time were quite economical, are now approaching those of their US and Canadian counterparts. Even the good Thai surgeons have a complication rate that far exceeds that of the US and Canadians. Certainly one can sympathize, or empathize, with a GRS candidate who will move hell and high water to have her surgery. But one of the main reasons many go to Thailand is that most of the surgeons, almost all of the surgeons there, do not strictly follow the HBIGDA (WPATH) Standards of Care. Thus, and primarily because of Thai surgeons, anyone with a few thousands dollars and a plane ticket to Thailand can side step the Standards of Care, have GRS and call themselves a “girl”. The result: many post operative transsexuals who can’t find employment, expect an unreasonable accomodation from the mainstream, and of whom can’t otherwise function and assimilate into society as a whole.
There is way more to the issue than you are reading.
**"Once upon a time, 50 years ago, there used to be another group. Anti-Gay and pro-Trans.
Illinois recently “tightened up” its policy, so only surgery performed in the USA “counted”. As 90% have to go overseas as they can’t afford either the poor results of the second- or third-rate US surgery, and its far higher cost…"**
Yes, there was a time when classic/true transsexuals had both a respect and a legitimacy the GLB did not enjoy. But thanks to the current trend of late transitioning trans activist, like Zoe and others, most of whom exist in so-called lesbian relationships, who can’t seem to speak of transsexuality without also including and associating the homosexual movement in the narrative, our legitimacy has been severely compromised in the interest of the GLBT construct. Those trans activists have, and are, succeeding in saturating the internet with the notion that the interests of the GLB is also the interest of the T. Transgender, in itself, includes every conceivable form of gender variant behaviour from the wierd transvestic fetish to classic/true transsexuals. It wasn’t always that way. But thanks again to the trans activists, transsexuality is now thrown in the same group as the casual weekend crossdresser and the homosexual male drag queen. Honestly, it’s disgusting and more frustrating than any of you can conceive to have one’s womanhood, via transitioning, diluted and colonized by the GLBT activists, essentially relegated to something less than female. Again, it wasn’t always that way, only in the past 10-15 years has it become that way…thanks to the libertine trans activists…the same trans activists that try to convince us that “men” can become pregnant or women can have male bits.
Zoe’s claim that “…90% [of US gender reassignment candidates] have to go overseas as they can’t afford either the poor results of the second- or third-rate US surgery…” is simply ridiculous. The United States is know for having some the best GRS surgeons in the world…Drs. Meltzer, Alter, Shrang (before he retired), and Biber (before he retired) are reknown for their technique and results. Dr. Toby Meltzer was the first to devise the current state-of-the-art surgical technique that is now used by virtually every GRS surgeon on the planet. Many go to Drs.Menard and Brassard, in Montreal, Canada who are also very good and only slightly less expensive than the American surgeons. These surgeons alone have performed thousands and thousands of gender reassignment with but a mere fraction of the complications encountered with overseas surgeons.
It’s true that many here in the States go overseas, specifically to Thailand, to have their GRS but it is *not *because of the quality of United States and Canadian surgeon’s technique. In the US and Canada there are perhaps, at most, a dozen GRS surgeons, all of whom strictly follow the HBIGDA (WPATH) Standards of Care, a strict medical protocol that must be followed prior to gender reassignment surgery; the majority of gender reassignments in the US and Canda are performed by just five surgeons, and they are very, very good at what they do. In Thailand alone, there are literally *hundreds *of GRS surgeons…some of which charge as little as a few hundred dollars for the procedure. The complication rate for these “bargain sex changes” is exponentially high when compared to rate of the United States and Canadian doctors. There are a few Thai surgeons who have proven themselves competent; their fees, though at one time were quite economical, are now approaching those of their US and Canadian counterparts. Even the good Thai surgeons have a complication rate that far exceeds that of the US and Canadians. Certainly one can sympathize, or empathize, with a GRS candidate who will move hell and high water to have her surgery. But one of the main reasons many go to Thailand is that most of the surgeons, almost all of the surgeons there, do not strictly follow the HBIGDA (WPATH) Standards of Care. Thus, and primarily because of Thai surgeons, anyone with a few thousands dollars and a plane ticket to Thailand can side step the Standards of Care, have GRS and call themselves a “girl”. The result: many post operative transsexuals who can’t find employment, expect an unreasonable accomodation from the mainstream, and of whom can’t otherwise function and assimilate into society as a whole.
There is way more to the issue than you are reading.
M
magdelaine
Guest
Zoe can speak for herself, but I don’t think this is a fair assessment of Zoe, physically, sexually, or politically, not by a long shot. There is another thread where she explains her story more fully.
I agree with you. I think this is **exactly **the problem. Before starting this conversation, this is what I assumed about trans folks.
I’m sure you are right. Please keep the conversation going so we can learn more.
Z
Zoe_Brain
Guest
Since I’m Intersexed rather than purely Transsexual, and on a number of IS fora, I’m indeed aware that many women have “male bits”. Even women with 46xx chromosomes, and who have given birth. The discomfort (and calling it discomfort is like saying the interior of the Sun is warm) that women with HBS feel is not shared by all women in a similar situation. Most, but not all.
I had it, but I’m not everyone.
As for non-US surgeons, I should have clarified - rather than “journeyed overseas” I should have said “journeyed outside the USA”… Brassard’s work is excellent, I’ve seen it in Montreal. Menard, not so much, but Brassard is first-rate.
I won’t go into the quality of US surgeons. Alter, Melzer and Bowers combined do fewer surgeries in a year than does Brassard for example, and practice makes perfect.
There are about 200 surgeons in Thailand. Some charge as little as $1500 for a basic surgery that is a travesty of real surgery - no better than many of the “unknowns” in the US who may do one SRS every 2-3 years and charge $35,000 for it…
But the top 5 Thai surgeons are first-rate, with of course price to match. Chettawut and Sanguan charge about $10,000, and Suporn $15,000. That’s compared with $25,000 and up for US surgeons. Bowers charges a little less than $40,000 for example, and she freely admits she has done less than 1/10 of the number of surgeries than either Brassard, Suporn, Chettawut, Preecha, Sanguan etc etc. For FtoM surgeons, the pair in Belgrade are the best in the world.
I classify surgeons as follows:
A 3rd-rate surgeon can sometimes produce acceptable results.
A 2nd-rate surgeon usually produces acceptable results.
A 1st-rate surgeon always produces acceptable results.
YMMV on that one - Chettawut recently had a case where the urethra was adhered to the colon, so it was impossible to safely create a vaginal cavity, and he aborted the procedure, leaving a “barbie doll” SRS with no neo-vagina. A second-rate surgeon might have continued, with disastrous results.
In all this though, determining which surgeon is best is a religious argument. I’ve personally seen the results of nearly a dozen surgeons, as well as photos from many more (as have you, I’m sure).
Oh by the way - it has been the law in Thailand now for some time that surgeons adhere to the guidelines in the WPATH SOC v6. Your information is outdated. The reputable (and more expensive, but still half of US price) surgeons always did. Not always strictly - Suporn’s requirements for under-25s were even more strict than WPATH’s, but for over 45’s only 1 PhD specialist letter was needed, and 6 months rather than 1 year of RLT (and hormones too, not a WPATH requirement). But in spirit if not in letter.
But I doubt many here would be interested in the details of 1-stage vs 2-stage procedures, or metoidoplasty vs phalloplasty.
15 years ago, when Biber and Shrang were still practicing, only Preecha in Thailand was arguably of the same standard. I know, I’ve seen the results of both US surgeons, live as it were. The US led the world. But no longer. And neither were as good as either Suporn or Brassard today. The surgery is getting better all the time, and I’m sure that the reputable US surgeons, once they’ve done the thousands of surgeries that the more experienced reputable foreign surgeons have done, will be at least as good, even if 2-3 times the price. On a good day, they’re already as good, it’s just the consistency that’s less than it could be.
Unfortunately, many people afraid of “foreign surgery” go to US surgeons who have performed less than a dozen SRS procedures in their whole careers. With the predictable results.
I had it, but I’m not everyone.
As for non-US surgeons, I should have clarified - rather than “journeyed overseas” I should have said “journeyed outside the USA”… Brassard’s work is excellent, I’ve seen it in Montreal. Menard, not so much, but Brassard is first-rate.
I won’t go into the quality of US surgeons. Alter, Melzer and Bowers combined do fewer surgeries in a year than does Brassard for example, and practice makes perfect.
There are about 200 surgeons in Thailand. Some charge as little as $1500 for a basic surgery that is a travesty of real surgery - no better than many of the “unknowns” in the US who may do one SRS every 2-3 years and charge $35,000 for it…
But the top 5 Thai surgeons are first-rate, with of course price to match. Chettawut and Sanguan charge about $10,000, and Suporn $15,000. That’s compared with $25,000 and up for US surgeons. Bowers charges a little less than $40,000 for example, and she freely admits she has done less than 1/10 of the number of surgeries than either Brassard, Suporn, Chettawut, Preecha, Sanguan etc etc. For FtoM surgeons, the pair in Belgrade are the best in the world.
I classify surgeons as follows:
A 3rd-rate surgeon can sometimes produce acceptable results.
A 2nd-rate surgeon usually produces acceptable results.
A 1st-rate surgeon always produces acceptable results.
YMMV on that one - Chettawut recently had a case where the urethra was adhered to the colon, so it was impossible to safely create a vaginal cavity, and he aborted the procedure, leaving a “barbie doll” SRS with no neo-vagina. A second-rate surgeon might have continued, with disastrous results.
In all this though, determining which surgeon is best is a religious argument. I’ve personally seen the results of nearly a dozen surgeons, as well as photos from many more (as have you, I’m sure).
Oh by the way - it has been the law in Thailand now for some time that surgeons adhere to the guidelines in the WPATH SOC v6. Your information is outdated. The reputable (and more expensive, but still half of US price) surgeons always did. Not always strictly - Suporn’s requirements for under-25s were even more strict than WPATH’s, but for over 45’s only 1 PhD specialist letter was needed, and 6 months rather than 1 year of RLT (and hormones too, not a WPATH requirement). But in spirit if not in letter.
But I doubt many here would be interested in the details of 1-stage vs 2-stage procedures, or metoidoplasty vs phalloplasty.
15 years ago, when Biber and Shrang were still practicing, only Preecha in Thailand was arguably of the same standard. I know, I’ve seen the results of both US surgeons, live as it were. The US led the world. But no longer. And neither were as good as either Suporn or Brassard today. The surgery is getting better all the time, and I’m sure that the reputable US surgeons, once they’ve done the thousands of surgeries that the more experienced reputable foreign surgeons have done, will be at least as good, even if 2-3 times the price. On a good day, they’re already as good, it’s just the consistency that’s less than it could be.
Unfortunately, many people afraid of “foreign surgery” go to US surgeons who have performed less than a dozen SRS procedures in their whole careers. With the predictable results.
S
Sueliz
Guest
It has not been the law in Thailand for “some time” that their GRS surgeons follow the HBIGDA (WPATH) Standards of Care. Further, per the January 30, 2009 issue of the Bangkok Post, though the Medical Council of Thailand *does *have a draft regulation, even that has not been approved and signed by the Public Health Minister and the draft is being contested by the (guess who) transgender. Suffice to say, Thai surgeons take the Standards of Care to the letter, and if they use it at all, it’s *only *used as a “guide”, effectively side-stepping it at will. This thread is not about the “best” GRS surgeons, but because, admittedly, there are a few Thai surgeons who have come up to the level of being first rate that in no way leads to the conclusion that they are better than the US surgeons for, essentially, they use the same technique developed by the US surgeon and used by the Canadians…and they still have complication rates that far surpass us. As most classic/true transsexuals, I don’t keep up with the numbers of GRSs done by the surgeons, but when I had my surgery, no one, anywhere, could come close to Toby Meltzer in either the number or quality of his GRSs. Regards to the intersex, most do not consider the chromosomal aberations intersex at all. The fact is that most intersex, if defined strictly by chromosomal aberations don’t even know they are intersex. Most intersex have no more propensity to be homosexual than any other new born on the planet. And most intersex do not have gender identity issues. And even further, the intersex do not see intersexuality as transsexualism. *Claiming *physical intersexuality, via a chromosomal aberation, as justification/explanation for GRS is the inside joke of transsexuality.
The issue here is why we are dispised. And the reason for this is the homosexual GLBT activists in general, the homosexual *transgender *activist in particular, have succeeded in colonizing our legitimacy. Prior to the early to mid 1990’s, this was *not *the case. It’s only been since then that gender reassignment surgery and *transgender *(not classic/true transsexuality) has been telegraphed into every home via the sensationalist documentary du jour…always associated with the GLB…that society has seen us as nothing more than homosexual males (or females for the female-to-male TS) who have gone to the extreme of gender reassignment surgery. Or, as someone posted earlier, our legitimate medical condition involving gender has been reduced to hyper-homosexuality and defined in the eyes of society as one of sex. Prior to the mid 1990s, the very vast majority of transsexuals had our surgery and disappeared into the mainstream. Even now, there are tens and tens of thousands of post operative TSs who have our surgery, seek *no *accomodation from the mainstream and in fact disappear into it, *are *successful and employed, *do **not *feel discriminated against, *are *heterosexual and either married or in serious heterosexual relationships, feel *no *need to “give something back” to the so-called “transgender community” we never belonged to in the first place, do not carte blanc support the GLB, and do not take part in the gender debate at all. But unlike the 1990s, there are now a few “trans” activists, virtually all of whom are homosexual, many have *not *have gender reassignment surgery nor do they *ever *intend to who claim to represent us when we wish they would just go quietly away; we don’t want them representing us, we don’t want them speaking for us. They have succeeded in deligitimizing our existence, reducing us to something less than what we are, and by their insistence that there can be pregnant men and women with male bits and other absurdly ridiculous intellectuallized arguments, brought a mainstream attention to us we never asked for, don’t want, and hope will go away.
The issue here is why we are dispised. And the reason for this is the homosexual GLBT activists in general, the homosexual *transgender *activist in particular, have succeeded in colonizing our legitimacy. Prior to the early to mid 1990’s, this was *not *the case. It’s only been since then that gender reassignment surgery and *transgender *(not classic/true transsexuality) has been telegraphed into every home via the sensationalist documentary du jour…always associated with the GLB…that society has seen us as nothing more than homosexual males (or females for the female-to-male TS) who have gone to the extreme of gender reassignment surgery. Or, as someone posted earlier, our legitimate medical condition involving gender has been reduced to hyper-homosexuality and defined in the eyes of society as one of sex. Prior to the mid 1990s, the very vast majority of transsexuals had our surgery and disappeared into the mainstream. Even now, there are tens and tens of thousands of post operative TSs who have our surgery, seek *no *accomodation from the mainstream and in fact disappear into it, *are *successful and employed, *do **not *feel discriminated against, *are *heterosexual and either married or in serious heterosexual relationships, feel *no *need to “give something back” to the so-called “transgender community” we never belonged to in the first place, do not carte blanc support the GLB, and do not take part in the gender debate at all. But unlike the 1990s, there are now a few “trans” activists, virtually all of whom are homosexual, many have *not *have gender reassignment surgery nor do they *ever *intend to who claim to represent us when we wish they would just go quietly away; we don’t want them representing us, we don’t want them speaking for us. They have succeeded in deligitimizing our existence, reducing us to something less than what we are, and by their insistence that there can be pregnant men and women with male bits and other absurdly ridiculous intellectuallized arguments, brought a mainstream attention to us we never asked for, don’t want, and hope will go away.
H
hyflyer64
Guest
Sueliz, from your comments, it’s apparent that you have not read all the posts in this thread. Otherwise, I would hope, you would not have made such confrontational comments!?
As for;
"But thanks to the current trend of late transitioning trans activist, like Zoe and others, most of whom exist in so-called lesbian relationships"
Pray tell, what does “late transitioning” have to do with anything?? Are you implying that we are not “true transexuals” as HB defined??
And “so-called lesbian relationships”!!?? A vast number of us attempted to lead “normal” lives. We married, had children and “did it all” until we could no longer maintain the charade. However, we did ( and still do ) love our spouses and for those with children, the “so-called lesbian relationships” is a responsibility and the honorable thing to do. At least that is how it is seen by most. Or are we to abandon our responsibilities and go shack up with some guy??
Zoe has not held back in describing her history and the rest of us have been pretty upfront with ours. Would you care to enlighten us a bit about yours?? Then maybe we would have an idea of where you are coming from with these statements that you make.
Rachel
M
magdelaine
Guest
Granted, I’m unfamiliar with the issues here, but an organization that makes a statement like this:
must be taken with a grain of salt.
S
Sueliz
Guest
No, I wouldn’t care to at all, Rachel. You can follow the link to my site if you like…whatever you find there is all you’ll get.
A
aspawloski4th
Guest
If I would of attempted transition in my young years I’d be dead now for multiple reasons. Don’t anyone ever insinuate that I’m not a true transsexual.Sueliz, from your comments, it’s apparent that you have not read all the posts in this thread. Otherwise, I would hope, you would not have made such confrontational comments!?
As for;
"But thanks to the current trend of late transitioning trans activist, like Zoe and others, most of whom exist in so-called lesbian relationships"
Pray tell, what does “late transitioning” have to do with anything?? Are you implying that we are not “true transexuals” as HB defined??
And “so-called lesbian relationships”!!?? A vast number of us attempted to lead “normal” lives. We married, had children and “did it all” until we could no longer maintain the charade. However, we did ( and still do ) love our spouses and for those with children, the “so-called lesbian relationships” is a responsibility and the honorable thing to do. At least that is how it is seen by most. Or are we to abandon our responsibilities and go shack up with some guy??
Zoe has not held back in describing her history and the rest of us have been pretty upfront with ours. Would you care to enlighten us a bit about yours?? Then maybe we would have an idea of where you are coming from with these statements that you make.
Rachel
A
aspawloski4th
Guest
If you are not willing to divulge some of your story, don’t judge the story of others. To do so would be the epidomy of hypocracy.
H
hyflyer64
Guest
Could you be a bit more specific as to who these “few “trans” activists” are!?
Certainly not Lynn Conway!!??
S
Sueliz
Guest
You can follow the link to my site if you like; you’ll find enough about me there. As well, you can see all the “trans” activists you care to indulge, and of which I refer, linked there. I’m not an activist. I won’t be marching in the streets in support of any GLB or gender related issue. I only started blogging a year or so ago after one day surfing the internet to discover enough non-sense in the gender debate to make me nauseous and finding myself unable to allow some of it to go unchallenged. I’m firmly in the camp of those who have transitioned, had my surgery, and intergrated into the mainstream wanting no more or less than to be left alone. If one cares to dismiss out-of-hand my comments and/or refuse to follow the substantiation links I post, that is fine with me.
H
hyflyer64
Guest
First off, I’m wondering what gave you the impression that we are pro-GLB??
Also, being that there are plenty of “genetic” women that are lesbians, why would it not be accepted that a “classical/true transexual”, could be a lesbian??
There is nothing I would like more than to just blend in and lead a nice quiet life. However, if you hadn’t noticed, this is " Catholic Answers Forumn" and unlike on the secular side, when you are a member of the Catholic church, things are not so simple. You don’t just simply walk up to your parish priest and say 'Mike and I want to get married in the church.
ID? Here’s my drivers license!
Birth certificate? Here it is!
Baptismal Record?
… UhWhat, no Baptismal record!!?? You were born a what!!??
Let’s just say that today, that aint going to happen!!
We are here discussing the issues we face with our church.
Please Sue, read my posts. I don’t like what is going on out there anymore than you do.
I see that you’ve started blogging. Guess what?? You’re becoming an activist
Rachel
S
Sueliz
Guest
Rachel…nothing give me the impression that you, or others who have posted here are pro-GLB. With regards to classic/true transsexuals being lesbian, I don’t doubt that either, but please consider this. I agree that classic/true transsexuals can be lesbian. Theoretically, a classic/true transsexual should have a rate of homosexuality comparable to that of natal males/females. However, though there has been no definitive study that I know of and please point me to one if it exists, it appears that is not the case. I read a quote by one making a comment on another blog the other day that 63% of the MtoF transgender lesbian identify. Though there are those who state they are bisexual, invariably it turns out they are in a “lesbian” relationship, as often as not, with yet another lesbian identified transgender. And Autumn Sandeen, a very out trans activist, while responding to a question that I asked on another blog a couple of days say HERE:
“…that leaders in the trans community do get that while half of California’s T population identifies as LGB, the other half of us very much doesn’t. And, we know the half-and-half number is close to accurate because that division is per a study that was released as part of the summit…”
The summit she references is the Transgender Leadership Conference being held as we speak out in California. So, depending on who you want to believe, the ratio of lesbian or gay relationships within the transgender range from 50% on up. One thing is certain, the percentage of transgender and classic/true transsexuals that lesbian or gay indentify is much, much, *much *higher than the natal population. There is more going on there than meets the eye, Rachel, something is way wrong with that picture. There is much more than classic/true transsexuality at play.
With regard to your baptismal records, I am not Catholic, but I have had Catholic post ops tell me that before the Church was *forced *to address the issue, pre GLBT, back when there was legitimacy to transsexualism, compassionate priests would change those records. The GLBT activists are almost universally aligned against the Church. A quick review of the major GLBT blogs will see it borders on a rant. I think those that are Catholic have no one but that group to blame for the current hesitancy of the Church to recognize classic/true transsexual’s gender status. The GLBT do not know the meaning of the word discreet. For them it an out-and-proud-in-your-face approach, or no approach at all.
“…that leaders in the trans community do get that while half of California’s T population identifies as LGB, the other half of us very much doesn’t. And, we know the half-and-half number is close to accurate because that division is per a study that was released as part of the summit…”
The summit she references is the Transgender Leadership Conference being held as we speak out in California. So, depending on who you want to believe, the ratio of lesbian or gay relationships within the transgender range from 50% on up. One thing is certain, the percentage of transgender and classic/true transsexuals that lesbian or gay indentify is much, much, *much *higher than the natal population. There is more going on there than meets the eye, Rachel, something is way wrong with that picture. There is much more than classic/true transsexuality at play.
With regard to your baptismal records, I am not Catholic, but I have had Catholic post ops tell me that before the Church was *forced *to address the issue, pre GLBT, back when there was legitimacy to transsexualism, compassionate priests would change those records. The GLBT activists are almost universally aligned against the Church. A quick review of the major GLBT blogs will see it borders on a rant. I think those that are Catholic have no one but that group to blame for the current hesitancy of the Church to recognize classic/true transsexual’s gender status. The GLBT do not know the meaning of the word discreet. For them it an out-and-proud-in-your-face approach, or no approach at all.
H
hyflyer64
Guest
Sue, correct if I’m wrong, you have Zoe’s blog listed on your blog as “you can see all the “trans” activists you care to indulge, and of which I refer”
Conjecture on my part here, but as in my case, could a portion of these be the same. people that for whatever reason, tried their best to lead a normal life until they could no longer keep up the charade. The only relationships you ever had was with women. You hated the thing between your legs and the last thing you want is to deal with it between someone elses legs!! Also, look at the age of these people. Society is saying that GRS changes nothing. We are still men. I know that I’m a woman, and this starts getting weird, but my church is OK with me being with a woman.
So society sees me as lesbian and the church sees me as a “weird” straight.Also, as a self proclaimed drag queen of the internet observed, there are a lot of so called TSs that are no more than CDs who took things too far. I personally know of some.
I believe that this would need a real study.
I have absolutely no doubt but they did it in total disregard for the teachings of the Church.
I just today started a dialogue with my parish priest. He told me that in our future talks, there would be things that I would be in total agreement with and others that I would be in total disagreement with. However, that would have no impact on the teachings and doctrine of the church.
Rachel
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