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Nigel7
Guest
Truth!
"Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them."
- John 6:56
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"Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them."
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JerBear_Meaux
Guest
And furthermore… on top of everything else that has already been said which makes it so clear, there is so much more to reinforce it.
For instance…
"Is not the cup of thanksgiving for which we give thanks a participation in the blood of Christ? And is not the bread that we break a participation in the body of Christ?"
“… So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup. For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves.”
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ConstantineTG
Guest
Ah, here it is. I never thought anyone will bring it up.
As I said in my previous post, the original Greek used in Scripture is “anamnesis”. It is indeed translated as “remembrance”. But what is a remembrance? Is it something that we just thinking of a past event. If we are talking about human beings, that would be right. But to call God himself to remembrance is a call for God to act. When God remembers, it is not mere mortal thought that are just images in the mind. When God is brought to remembrance, He enacts on His promise. The anamnesis of the Last Supper is of course the sacrifice of Christ which has brought us salvation. The same way the rainbow is God’s anamnesis to his covenant with Moses, circumcision is God’s anamnesis to his covenant with Abraham, the Eucharist is God’s anamnesis to the sacrifice of Jesus. Jesus’ sacrifice is made present. God’s remembrance isn’t merely a memory, it brings the actual event to the present. So it is not like us watching a video of something that happened years ago, God’s remembrance makes the event real and present right now.
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patrick457
Guest
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JerBear_Meaux
Guest
Sounds like your calling us to live out our faith in rememberence:thumbsup:
po18guy
Well-known member
**First:
What is your authority to privately interpret scripture?
Answer that and we may proceed. **
po18guy
Well-known member
Except Paul, the bible-Christian’s Pope, calls it a “participation” in the Body and Blood of Christ. To participate is more than a remembrance. You cannot eat and drink damnation unto yourself for unworthily remembering.
Or, was Paul all wrong here?
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MartinJordan
Guest
I think what throws many non-Catholics off when reading scripture like John 6, is when Jesus says in John 6:63 , “It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.” The first part they take it as an “A ha!” moment as if Jesus flesh profits nothing so, the bread is just a symbol.
But immediate they lose the substance (no pun intended) in the next line “the words I speak to you are spirit and they are life”. Also Jesus didn’t say “My flesh profiteth nothing”.
The truth here is that bread is transformed spiritually and substantially as Jesus real flesh. And this flesh is Alive! Not just a piece of bread that reminds us that Jesus died for us. But it is the live Jesus we are being fed with and spiritually we are then refreshed with his Body.
BTW, it cannot be cannibalism, as Jesus remains Alive in one who takes his Body and Blood.
Lastly 1 Corinthians 2: 12- 14 puts those Spiritual reflections in context:
12 Now we have received not the spirit of this world, but the Spirit that is of God; that we may know the things that are given us from God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the learned words of human wisdom; but in the doctrine of the Spirit, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the sensual man perceiveth not these things that are of the Spirit of God; for it is foolishness to him, and he cannot understand, because it is spiritually examined.
Douay Rheims Bible
MJ
But immediate they lose the substance (no pun intended) in the next line “the words I speak to you are spirit and they are life”. Also Jesus didn’t say “My flesh profiteth nothing”.
The truth here is that bread is transformed spiritually and substantially as Jesus real flesh. And this flesh is Alive! Not just a piece of bread that reminds us that Jesus died for us. But it is the live Jesus we are being fed with and spiritually we are then refreshed with his Body.
BTW, it cannot be cannibalism, as Jesus remains Alive in one who takes his Body and Blood.
Lastly 1 Corinthians 2: 12- 14 puts those Spiritual reflections in context:
12 Now we have received not the spirit of this world, but the Spirit that is of God; that we may know the things that are given us from God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the learned words of human wisdom; but in the doctrine of the Spirit, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the sensual man perceiveth not these things that are of the Spirit of God; for it is foolishness to him, and he cannot understand, because it is spiritually examined.
Douay Rheims Bible
MJ
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andreashofer
Guest
Wow!I think what throws many non-Catholics off when reading scripture like John 6, is when Jesus says in John 6:63 , “It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.” The first part they take it as an “A ha!” moment as if Jesus flesh profits nothing so, the bread is just a symbol.
But immediate they lose the substance (no pun intended) in the next line “the words I speak to you are spirit and they are life”. Also Jesus didn’t say “My flesh profiteth nothing”.
The truth here is that bread is transformed spiritually and substantially as Jesus real flesh. And this flesh is Alive! Not just a piece of bread that reminds us that Jesus died for us. But it is the live Jesus we are being fed with and spiritually we are then refreshed with his Body.
BTW, it cannot be cannibalism, as Jesus remains Alive in one who takes his Body and Blood.
Lastly 1 Corinthians 2: 12- 14 puts those Spiritual reflections in context:
12 Now we have received not the spirit of this world, but the Spirit that is of God; that we may know the things that are given us from God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the learned words of human wisdom; but in the doctrine of the Spirit, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the sensual man perceiveth not these things that are of the Spirit of God; for it is foolishness to him, and he cannot understand, because it is spiritually examined.
Douay Rheims Bible
MJ
po18guy
Well-known member
How many of them read and reflect on 2 Peter 1:20 regarding the prohibition on private interpretation? The OP has this 100% backward: It is his opinion and this thread that are not biblical.
Couple of additional points: Cannibalism is the killing and eating of human flesh. The flesh in cannibalism is taken, and not received. Jesus commanded us to eat His Flesh and drink His Blood. We do not take it, we receive it from Him. “Take, eat, this is my Body…” As well, Jesus offered His flesh for the life of the world, so His Flesh does profit us. If Jesus’ flesh does not profit us, then there was no atonement on the cross. Nonsense!
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MartinJordan
Guest
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Christine85
Guest
I sort of get the feeling the OP may not post again on the topic. :yup:
Thank you everyone for the awesome responses. It reminds me why I’m Catholic
:extrahappy:
Thank you everyone for the awesome responses. It reminds me why I’m Catholic
:extrahappy:
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Bossilla
Guest
Early Christian martyrs were brought up on charges of cannibalism, atheism, and incestuous relationships. I’m still puzzling out how they got the last one. Maybe they heard Christ is the bridegroom and the church made of all the members is the bride?You had better watch out he might think that you are a cannibal!!!
if i were him i probably wouldnt worry about it, he doesnt appear to know what you mean when you say real food and real drink.
Anyway, the early christian church appears to have taken Jesus’s words in regards to the Eucharist literally. There are early christian martyrs who were martyred because they didn’t want to surrender the Eucharist to the Romans. It was precious enough to warrant their lives. Maybe they didn’t have our Bible to tell them it was only bread?
The unfortunate part about the Bible being translated into English is that it loses some of the deeper meaning of words written in another language. You learn that when you read the same passage in Greek or even Spanish. “Eros” is not the same as “Agape” but in the English is translated to ‘love’. That is why tradition is needed to give context to some scripture passages.
po18guy
Well-known member
We must never underestimate the resolve of an individual who seeks to correct the errors of:
The Twelve Apostles
Saint Paul
Saint Luke
Saint Mark
The Early Church Fathers
The Doctors of the Church
The Saints
The Popes
The Cardinals
The Archbishops
The Bishops
The Monsignors
402,000 Priests
The Deacons
1.2 billion lay Catholics
and
300 million Eastern Orthodox Christians
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patrick457
Guest
You’re forgetting the Oriental Orthodox.
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djeter
Guest
Hear Hear. Talk about opening a can of whoopass… And yet the kind of smug superiority the OP demonstrates reminds us how careful we should be in our criticisms of our Protestant brothers, lest we fall into the same traps.
dj
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Lochias
Guest
True. They’ve got their work cut out for them, eh? :whacky:
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bzkoss236
Guest
I’d say cannibalism has more to do with eating the “accidents” that are flesh. So if it looks, smells, feels, and tastes like human flesh and it is eaten, that is cannibalism. If the substance of something is, or contains, flesh, but it looks, smells, feels, and tastes like bread, it is not.
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Armor_of_Light
Guest
…and his own assumption that Jesus was in error!
po18guy
Well-known member
Should have left the “Eastern” off. I note that OP is able to do this while possessing 91% (or 66/73) of sacred scripture. I have no doubt of the OP’s love of Christ. However, when one is seeking God, the first to derail the journey is the self.You’re forgetting the Oriental Orthodox.
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